[mikema63]

We do have a very complicated relationship with Pakistan full of us just straight up sending in drones after the taliban, sending in Navy seals to kill bin laden, etc. We've done everything but declare war directly.

[blackjack21]

The US attacked to get him out of Kuwait. I don't think he ever seriously threatened saudi oilfields.

Yeah, but invading Khafji is kind of like putting your big toe in the water to check the temperature. It's not like Iraqi troops got lost or something.

It has nothing to do with "resource exploitation." Compared to its old enemies, Israel has no resources.

Just a heads up: it's time to rethink Israel in that respect. Off-shore gas is a pretty big deal with Israel now. They will definitely be about resource exploitation. As a net gas exporter, I would expect EU sentiments toward Israel to change.

EU to cut gas dependency on Russia with Israel pipeline

Israel has discovered more than 900 billion cubic meters (bcm) of gas offshore, with some studies pointing to another 2,200 bcm waiting to be tapped. Along with the European market, it is exploring options to export to Turkey, Egypt and Jordan.

How natural gas could be a geopolitical game-changer in the Mideast
Natural Gas May Have Profound Impact on Israel's Geopolitics

Saudi Arabia is a right wing dictatorship that is allied with the US.

It's an absolute monarchy.

We do have a very complicated relationship with Pakistan full of us just straight up sending in drones after the taliban, sending in Navy seals to kill bin laden, etc. We've done everything but declare war directly.

True, but the dirty secret is Pakistan doesn't really control Waziristan or the tribal areas. Even Pakistani border guards participate in Taliban raids against US troops in Afghanistan.

[Oxymandias]

@blackjack21

Can we continue our discussion on what would be your ideal fascist state if you were the ruler of it? I would like it if we could start over.

[starman2003]

Yeah, but invading Khafji is kind of like putting your big toe in the water to check the temperature. It's not like Iraqi troops got lost or something.

That didn't happen until after the US and the coalition had launched the war. If Iraq had serious designs on Saudi oil it's big chance was in August 1990, right after taking Kuwait and before Desert shield began.

Just a heads up: it's time to rethink Israel in that respect. Off-shore gas is a pretty big deal with Israel now. They will definitely be about resource exploitation. As a net gas exporter, I would expect EU sentiments toward Israel to change.

I'm aware of that but Algeria has long been a gas producer, Egypt has also found offshore gas, and the arabs/Iran remain vastly more important as energy suppliers.
EU sentiments toward Israel btw are based on more than just energy. There's also the Palestinians.

[Pants-of-dog]

Another reason why I would not support a fascist state is because I have no problem with Jews.

[starman2003]

Another reason why I would not support a fascist state is because I have no problem with Jews.

I don't have a problem with Jews just supporters of Israel. Some jews oppose support, just like I do. Many nonjews back the policy.
Btw opposition to jews isn't an essential feature of fascism,.

[Pants-of-dog]

I also have no problem with other ethnic and religious minorities. So fascism is definitely out for me.

[starman2003]

I also have no problem with other ethnic and religious minorities. So fascism is definitely out for me.

Some time ago on the AFP board a black guy appeared, who said he was interested in fascism but hesistant to join because he often equated it with racism. To a man we all welcomed him, and he said finding a nonracist fascism was "a dream come true." I'm confident democracy will someday go, but doubt an authoritarianism replacement will be racist.

[Pants-of-dog]

Sure. In my life, I have only met one fascist who was not racist.

[starman2003]

Sure. In my life, I have only met one fascist who was not racist.

On the internet I've met many. There used to be a bunch like that in the AFP and right here in P&D pofo.

[blackjack21]

Can we continue our discussion on what would be your ideal fascist state if you were the ruler of it? I would like it if we could start over.

I'm fine with it, but a lot of the moderators are not. Probably the #1 news story in the US is still Trump battling the establishment, and the moderators here would rather we not talk about that. They are still interested in how a socialist state might be built in spite of a history of essentially complete failure.

A country like Venezuela might be better suited to fascism. The brand of socialism that Hugo Chavez and his successors tried is an economic non-starter. First, they have to fire all the political hacks from the PDVSA in order to make it economically viable again. Then, they need to expand on petroleum-based products like plastics, etc. States like Singapore and South Korea were successful in extending vertical integration. Even Japan was successful initially that way.

It's a shame that people still think you can lower marginal price by fiat below marginal cost and not get a collapse of production, but that's how modern socialists operate.

That didn't happen until after the US and the coalition had launched the war. If Iraq had serious designs on Saudi oil it's big chance was in August 1990, right after taking Kuwait and before Desert shield began.

The US ground campaign didn't start in 1990. The air war started on 17 January 1991. It was hardly a wise choice of Saddam to invade Saudi Arabia at that point.

I'm aware of that but Algeria has long been a gas producer, Egypt has also found offshore gas, and the arabs/Iran remain vastly more important as energy suppliers.
EU sentiments toward Israel btw are based on more than just energy. There's also the Palestinians.

Yes, but the likelihood of getting pipelines built from Israel, Egypt and Cypress are better than getting them from Qatar or Iran. So while the long-term still favors the gulf states, the near term practical ramifications would do a lot to make Europe more independent of Russia. The economics also now favor a two-state solution with some of that gas being Palestinian.

[Oxymandias]

@blackjack21

So tell me, exactly what would be your ideal American fascist state? How specifically would the government work? How would the economic system be like? How would society be like? Foreign policy? Currency? Would it be federalist or centralized? What would the military look like? etc.? This would also go for everything including trivial things such as name, flag, uniforms, architecture, art, and music along other things.

What would be this fascist states thoughts on a sort of "Pan-American" state?

[Pants-of-dog]

On the internet I've met many. There used to be a bunch like that in the AFP and right here in P&D pofo.

No. There are currently no fascists on this board who are not racist, as far as I can tell.

[starman2003]

The US ground campaign didn't start in 1990. The air war started on 17 January 1991. It was hardly a wise choice of Saddam to invade Saudi Arabia at that point.

Of course. He could've tried right after taking Kuwait (athough it would've been difficult to take oil rich eastern Saudi Arabia, let alone the whole country, without extensive prewar preparation). Btw see

http://starvisions.blogspot.com/2016/08/alternate-scenarios-iraq-1980-91.html

Yes, but the likelihood of getting pipelines built from Israel, Egypt and Cypress are better than getting them from Qatar or Iran.

Pipelines built from Israel? Across where--Hez or Syrian territory, toward Europe? For many years there were pipelines conveying Iraqi oil to the Syrian coast for export so one from Iran doesn't seem like much of a stretch.
Btw I think the correct spelling is "Cyprus." "Cypress" refers to a tree.

So while the long-term still favors the gulf states, the near term practical ramifications would do a lot to make Europe more independent of Russia.

Maybe the BDS movement will see Europe export from Egypt or elsewhere instead of Israel.

The economics also now favor a two-state solution with some of that gas being Palestinian.

Israel will probably take it and everything else they have.