The philosophical foundations of Fascist ideology are sophistry - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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#14831361
Since the self-described fascists on this forum refuse to debate me every time I point out that their ideology is a bunch of rubbish, I'll take this direct to the people.

The philosophical underpinning of the fascist ideology is based on pure sophistry, usually combined with appalling historical ignorance, reactionaryism, social Darwinism, and other bankrupt ideological rubbish. It has no place in the modern world. Period.
#14831363
I think saeko just isn't that interested in getting into it, so far as I know she's the only fascist on the board currently.

As for what I think of fascism philosophically I think it's hard to think of fascism and not view it through Nazi's and I don't think that's really accurate in the grand scheme of things. It's certainly not a view of human nature that's positive or happy in any way nor do I agree with it but I don't think it's purely sophistry.

From what I can tell it's a perfectly legitimate interpretation of human nature with parts of it's interpretations that don't follow (Imho).

Regardless fascism is hardly the pressing issue of our age that demands being addressed in the site.
#14831391
The philosophical underpinning of the fascist ideology is based on pure sophistry, usually combined with appalling historical ignorance, reactionaryism, social Darwinism, and other bankrupt ideological rubbish. It has no place in the modern world. Period.


The same is true of communism of course.

Fascism at least is dead and buried, the zombie communism keeps twitching....
#14831539
Ideology is a system of beliefs which are logically coherent or at least try to be. To be an ideology it has to by definition be logical and as political ideology seeks to describe the real world and the best way to go about politics it has to realistically describe the world and make accurate predictions.

Simply dismissing ideology as "just a belief" like it's the same a stand alone belief in big foot or an opinion about what tastes good is reductive and not a useful way to look at and understand the world.
#14831555
mikema63 wrote:Ideology is a system of beliefs which are logically coherent or at least try to be. To be an ideology it has to by definition be logical and as political ideology seeks to describe the real world and the best way to go about politics it has to realistically describe the world and make accurate predictions.

Simply dismissing ideology as "just a belief" like it's the same a stand alone belief in big foot or an opinion about what tastes good is reductive and not a useful way to look at and understand the world.


No, the definition of ideology does not contain the word 'logic'. You are simply overlaying your ideology on the definition.
Even the very brightest of us choose to ignore reality because it is inconvenient.
The scientific method was created by and is supported by the conscious human mind.
The scientific method tells us our conscious minds are extremely unreliable processors of information.
We can consciously only access a minute fraction of the information we have stored.
We are aware there must be a much different processor at work unconsciously.
We then use this minute portion of our conscious minds to discredit what might be our only connections to this other processor; intuition, insight, gut feeling.
This is why ideology does not require the logic of our flawed conscious minds to be valid.
#14831576
it's hard to think of fascism and not view it through Nazi's and I don't think that's really accurate in the grand scheme of things.

This is what fashionable fascism looks like.

The cave goes WILD for their domesticated entertainment. Join us, as we celebrate the conquering of nature. Complete with pressed pants, corporate sponsors, airtime, tribal trivia, arm insignias, and collared companions.

Regardless fascism is hardly the pressing issue of our age that demands being addressed in the site.
:lol: Right, because when someone posts a pressing issue you quickly engage it. Tell me more about 'pressing issues.' How is your relationship with your father?

Ideology is a system of beliefs which are logically coherent or at least try to be. To be an ideology it has to by definition be logical and as political ideology seeks to describe the real world and the best way to go about politics it has to realistically describe the world and make accurate predictions.
:lol: 'To be an ideology,' now that's a good one, Mikema. Does the real world come before or after ideology?

So if I wanted to put myself out there, as an ideology, on an idea dating site... What would I write? I'm trying to attract similar fixed perspectives.

"Hi, I'm an ideology, by my own definition I'm logical and coherent, and I'm also responsible for the death of millions of non-believers. :) I like my interpretation of romantic evenings, state-sponsored behavioral therapy and bondage of the human will. I hope you can submit to my interpretation of reality so we can make my ideology an ongoing reality. I'm the ONE, I just know it! Let's create a family of ideological conjecture in our image!"


Wait... is Pofo an idea dating site? :eek: No wonder why I have relationship troubles, I'm an idea slut. I sleep with all kinds of ideas, so I can blackmail em later. See, I need to get inside the belly of the beast so I can investigate the birth canal. Mommy... Daddy, where does ideology come from?
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 09 Aug 2017 18:31, edited 2 times in total.
#14831583
Ideology is a system of beliefs which are logically coherent or at least try to be. To be an ideology it has to by definition be logical and as political ideology seeks to describe the real world and the best way to go about politics it has to realistically describe the world and make accurate predictions.

Unfortunately, none of these things are true, Mike. In fact, the main theorists of fascism explicitly denied that fascism was a rational, logically self-consistent ideology. The will mattered more to them than the mind. After all, the rationalisations of the conscious mind serve the will, and not vice versa. We first will something, and then we retrospectively rationalise the reasons why we will it. You really need to read Mussolini's The Doctrine of Fascism, Mike.
#14831585
@One Degree the definition of ideology is a system of beliefs. Which directly implies logical connections between beliefs.

@Potemkin I'm not going to fight over the point because it's fascism after all, but even if their premises are based in something I think is dumb doesn't mean that their beliefs don't have their own logical consistency IMO.
#14831589
mikema63 wrote:I'm not going to fight over the point because it's fascism after all, but even if their premises are based in something I think is dumb doesn't mean that their beliefs don't have their own logical consistency IMO.
You shan't, but they WILL fight over the point because it's fascism after all. :roll: By 'their own logical consistency,' are you referring to an imagined logical necessity? How can dead language be consistent with living phenomena? It's impossible. Living phenomena will always 'revive' dead ideas in order to construct consistent fantasy. You seem to be out of touch with the 'grand scheme of things,' and I mean touch as in- you're unable to grasp the nature of ideology.
#14831593
mikema63 wrote:If you consider it within the context of the time cube it makes more sense, I suppose I just have access to higher spatial deminsion than you.
Right. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thanks, Mike. :roll: Let me know when you can hold an intellectual conversation.
#14831598
mikema63 wrote:Let me know when you can hold a coherent sentence. :)
I'm not going to tit-4-tat one liners, your intellectual capacity is not my problem. Good day, Mike.
#14831599
mikema63 wrote:I think saeko just isn't that interested in getting into it, so far as I know she's the only fascist on the board currently.


The last time I spoke to Saeko about her brand of Fascism, she couldn't even answer simple questions on how it would even function. She doesn't realise that she can only really be an Anarchist. Perhaps Totalitarian.

As for the OP, fascism has no place in today's society. Who would want to dismiss their rights and will to an oppressor? I wouldn't even say fascism ideas are sophistry, they are oppressive nonsense that no rational mind would advocate.
#14831874
I don't follow the thread premise which seems to go from, people on this forum don't satisfy me in their explanations in debate and so their corresponding ideology is bullshit.
Which to me I see a bit like, if I can't explain something than it's false, which isn't necessarily true, as what it more accurately reflects is my own inability to understand or explain something.

And whilst I do have the impression that there is can be a kind of anti-intellectualism from some people that appear to be fascists, it isn't without some tendencies behind it.
I imagine beyond Mussolini, the figure to draw upon would be Giovanni Gentile who proposed some sort of idealism. Though can't say I'm familiar with his work.
On the other hand got folks like Alain De Benoist that continue a kind of eclecticism that seems common to fascists in which they draw notions from left and right politics in order to situate themselves as beyond the dichotomy and garner support from various groups.
They seem to do so by touching on important issues that resonate but in order to propose their particular 'solution' to the problems. Which seems to be national/ethnic unity against a clear enemy.
Though perhaps these sentiments promotes that fascisms doesn't have a coherent philosophy as much as an opportunistic grabbing of things in order to capitalize on certain dispositions and use effective strategies to achieve their ends such as a personified problem (historically the jews though not necessarily them).

It seems that fella I mentioned earlier himself seems to express an anti-intellectualism in what appears to be a one sided emphasis on action itself in denigration of thoughtfulness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism#Fascism
Seems like a vulgariztaion of Marx's rehabilitation of the sensuous as active, with materialism and idealism being mediated through praxis.
#14831891
It seems to me fascists should spend less time acting as apologists for racists while spewing social Darwinism everywhere. If they want to advance a philosophy it should probably be identified with some kind of futurism. But even then the fascists are at best copying basically what would be some kind of pathetic fashion movement without its context.

Dogmatic Party loyalty? Jingoistic militarism? Nationalistic xenophobia? Arbitrary application of law, it's general rewriting, abolishing of political parties, centralization of Supreme power with out popular input?

What is the advantage of such a society today? Insular territorialism? Macron called it 21st century defeatism and I think he was right. The fascists have no imagination, no future, and so they goose step around the circling drain knowing full well the leader is not coming
#14831904

Wellsy wrote:I don't follow the thread premise which seems to go from, people on this forum don't satisfy me
You should try different ideology brothels. I mean, communism can be super clingy, and fascism has a kinky superiority complex.

ideology is bullshit.
It is, but if you're into that sort of thing, I say go for it. You know, you only live once, so if your mind likes ology-penetration, who I am to judge? Just be careful, some folks over do it and end up coping with intellectual dysfunction.
if I can't explain something than it's false, which isn't necessarily true, as what it more accurately reflects is my own inability to understand or explain something.
Right, it's hard to find marriage material. One day you're smoking political polls, swallowing loads of information, fantasizing about the next ology-orgy, and before you know it you're dealing with an intellectually transmitted disease.

And whilst I do have the impression that there is can be a kind of anti-intellectualism from some people that appear to be fascists, it isn't without some tendencies behind it.
Exactly, we need more brain condoms in public libraries. If you we teach the youth how to have safe intel-course, they wouldn't be so damn anti-intellectual. Nonetheless, kids are going online, bypassing our cultural deterrents, so they end up seeing all sorts of dirty ideas online.
I imagine beyond Mussolini, the figure to draw upon would be Giovanni Gentile who proposed some sort of idealism. Though can't say I'm familiar with his work.
Mussolini, the Italian stallion, didn't he gang-bang the boot off Italy? What a bold bald-headed savage!
On the other hand got folks like Alain De Benoist that continue a kind of eclecticism that seems common to fascists in which they draw notions from left and right politics in order to situate themselves as beyond the dichotomy and garner support from various groups.
This is why I'm an idea slut, the more positions I know... the better the ology-orgy.
They seem to do so by touching on important issues that resonate but in order to propose their particular 'solution' to the problems. Which seems to be national/ethnic unity against a clear enemy.
Once you hit the G-spot there's no turning back. Luckily, all your 'enemies' have a G-spot.
Though perhaps these sentiments promotes that fascisms doesn't have a coherent philosophy as much as an opportunistic grabbing of things in order to capitalize on certain dispositions and use effective strategies to achieve their ends such as a personified problem (historically the jews though not necessarily them).
This 100% They love grabbing things and they love role-playing, and this why people file intellectual assault charges. Like I said, overwhelming superiority complex.

It seems that fella I mentioned earlier himself seems to express an anti-intellectualism in what appears to be a one sided emphasis on action itself in denigration of thoughtfulness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism#Fascism
Seems like a vulgariztaion of Marx's rehabilitation of the sensuous as active, with materialism and idealism being mediated through praxis.
Bro, just imagine Marx naked... What a stud-muffin.

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