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By B0ycey
#14780070
I am more a reader than a poster on PoFo, and I find 'The Agora' forum to be the best. But it has been slow the past week so thought I'd get the ball rolling again. After all, who knows when Agent Steel plans on publishing the his 'fundamental argument for atheism part III'

So to my topic, 'What is intelligence?' How do you define it? Are robots for example intelligent or just binary numbers following rules that an intelligent programmer has set out. A robot is accurate, but if a mistake occurs, it continues to execute the same mistake until corrected by a human so is this really a forum of intelligence or not? Then there are intellectual intelligence. Someone can do the most complex mathematical equations or write the perfect novel, but can they kick a ball or have any form of street smarts? Are people who are more the hunter-gather type less intelligent because they struggle to read and write but could provide for their families in a less civilized universe? This is more a philosophy thread so please give me your opinions on the matter. There are no wrong answers, just conflicting opinions. I enjoy reading them, even if I don't reply. But I still might lol.
#14780125
Intelligent people have the mental ability to survive in the environment they are in. Unintelligent people do not have this ability. I see no more usefulness to the discussion of intelligence beyond that point. It just becomes a meaningless competition if survival is not at stake.
My definition of intelligence might be a combination of inherited traits, learned behavior, and awareness of emotional ingrained behavior beyond our control.
By anasawad
#14780157
Intellegince in its purist definition is the the processing of information.
The more capable of processing infortmation the thing is, the more intellegint it is.
By B0ycey
#14780186
Besoeker wrote:The ability to reason things out.


Reasoning is a thought process. Can machines use reason or do they use a mathematical process based on no reason? Do you consider machines intelligent?
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By Suntzu
#14780214
Intelligence is brain power. Kicking a ball doesn't demonstrate brain power, monkey can do it better than human beings. I'm on the fence on artistic ability. Was Bach a genius or Van Gogh?

We instinctive know what smart and stupid mean. We even know what genius and stupid mean. We have a problem when someone attaches a number to either quality.
By B0ycey
#14780218
Suntzu wrote:Intelligence is brain power. Kicking a ball doesn't demonstrate brain power, monkey can do it better than human beings.

I think some human beings can kick a ball better than any monkey is able to. I believe there is even a career in it. However, do you think kicking a ball doesn't use brain power? How unusual.
By mikema63
#14780244
We don't actually know how intelligence works. All our definitions are cultural and have more to do with skills that are useful in society than any real single trait.
By B0ycey
#14780249
mikema63 wrote:We don't actually know how intelligence works. All our definitions are cultural and have more to do with skills that are useful in society than any real single trait.


Would you care to elaborate. We know that our brain uses neurons and we have the ability to learn. Computers use binary. But the binary is only as good as the depth the programmer used to create the program. But I agree, it depends on your definition of intelligence and what you consider intelligence to be.
#14780254
B0ycey wrote:Would you care to elaborate. We know that our brain uses neurons and we have the ability to learn. Computers use binary. But the binary is only as good as the depth the programmer used to create the program. But I agree, it depends on your definition of intelligence and what you consider intelligence to be.


I don't know how he could. We are so far from understanding, that about all you can say is, "we don't know very much." :lol:
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By Suntzu
#14780257
B0ycey wrote:I think some human beings can kick a ball better than any monkey is able to. I believe there is even a career in it. However, do you think kicking a ball doesn't use brain power? How unusual.


I doubt it. Kicking a ball uses the brain but not its reasoning capacity. I think it has been demonstrated that chimpanzees are better at memorizing patterns and reacting to them than human beings. Memorizing is also not a function of intelligence.
By mikema63
#14780259
Well there's not much to say. We only really understand the most basic level of processing in the brain and then only on an individual neuron basis. Even there we are still discovering new things. Each neuron actually has several layers of processing, each dendrite can independently fire for instance. The neuron can reduce or strengthen each of its hundreds of connections constantly. It can form entirely new ones and lose old ones.

I say all this to point out that on a neurological physical level we don't really understand how even relatively simple behaviors work. Complex behaviors like higher intelligence and conciousness is entirely beyond our understanding.

Thus it falls to psychology which is more art and social science than anything. Things like IQ tests test various skills and assumes some generalized G factor but thats all.

@Suntzu kicking a ball and higher reasoning are related. After all movement was the function of the first nervous systems and reasoning evolved from them.
By mikema63
#14780262
There is literally a giant part of your brain that coordinates complex movements. That it's not a conscious thought doesn't mean the same type of networks aren't involved.
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By Suntzu
#14780270
From Merriam-Webster:


1 a (1): the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)
By B0ycey
#14780271
Suntzu wrote:No its not. When I hit a baseball there is no thought at all, just reaction.


Does hitting the ball in the first place require thought? How about the direction you are hitting the ball and how far you want it to go? Is a baseball player less intelligent than a scientist or is it just a different form of intelligence that they both excel in?
By mikema63
#14780272
From Merriam-Webster:


1 a (1): the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)


You're missing a fundamental point I'm making. We have culturally defined intelligence like this, and measured it by testing some set of skills we think signify intelligence. I'm pointing out that from a biological perspective there isn't any particular difference between assigning these traits as "intelligence" versus literally any other brain function. Learning physical tasks still requires all the same neuroplasticity and processing as conscious thought, because the brain uses the same "programming language" regardless of the task and whether or not we ascribe significance to that task.

Let me put it this way. It's all well and good to define intelligence in such a way that it only includes things we actually care about, but that also means that such a definition is socially constructed.
By Besoeker
#14780279
B0ycey wrote:Reasoning is a thought process. Can machines use reason or do they use a mathematical process based on no reason? Do you consider machines intelligent?

I agree that reasoning is a thought process. I think how well or effectively you reason things out is a measure of intelligence.
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By Suntzu
#14780302
mikema63 wrote:You're missing a fundamental point I'm making. We have culturally defined intelligence like this, and measured it by testing some set of skills we think signify intelligence. I'm pointing out that from a biological perspective there isn't any particular difference between assigning these traits as "intelligence" versus literally any other brain function. Learning physical tasks still requires all the same neuroplasticity and processing as conscious thought, because the brain uses the same "programming language" regardless of the task and whether or not we ascribe significance to that task.

Let me put it this way. It's all well and good to define intelligence in such a way that it only includes things we actually care about, but that also means that such a definition is socially constructed.


You are trying to redefine intelligence to make baseball players smart. In fact, one can be stupid and a very good ball player.

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