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By skinster
#15117207
Sivad wrote:I'm guessing that your guess probably isn't based in reason or evidence. Atheistic materialism is just a dumb person's idea of what a smart person thinks, the evidence weighs heavily against it.


You can't prove a negative bitch, but feel free to show me your evidence of what happens after. :D
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By Drlee
#15117209
@Sivad
They say these experiences are extremely intense and what we can verify is that most of the people who undergo them exhibit profound psychological changes that lead them to radically reorient their entire lives. Some people have such negative experiences that they're left in a state of terror for the rest of their lives.


This is true. Many if not most doctors I know have had any number of patients who have experienced this. It is easy for the scientific minded among us to conclude that these are just some naturally occurring biological phenomena that we, mostly being religious people, cast in a religious light in search of a good explanation for something so real . But I am not so sure. Certainly I have known atheists who have had this experience. That, in itself, does not deny that they too may choose, albeit unwillingly, to cast this experience in religious terms because they have no other (what is to them) realistic frame of reference.

For people of faith, their beliefs are "truth".

I heard a psychiatrist posit that the "lives flashing before ones eyes" is a defensive mechanism as the person searches his/her memory banks for a way out. But the judgment thing is quite different. As is the tunnel of light, etc.

For me it is wonderful to know that we do not really know. That takes the sting out of death for me. As a person of faith I look forward to what is next. As a scientist I still look forward to what is next. And there is nothing contradictory about that at all.
By skinster
#15117210
Lots of people believe they were abducted by aliens too. I wonder how many that ever lived believe(d) they're god.

Those hallucinations are probably DMT leaking from inside your head that apparently can be triggered off by traumatic events or maybe something a lot of us experience on the way out just anyway (here's hoping :excited: )

:|
By ness31
#15117228
I heard a psychiatrist posit that the "lives flashing before ones eyes" is a defensive mechanism as the person searches his/her memory banks for a way out.


And it’s essentially what Vanilla Sky was getting at too.
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By jimjam
#15119027
Tommy Two Times was up at the camp in Bolton Landing knocking down beers with Charles Charles and Vinnie the Anteater. Tommy tossed a handful of peanuts into his mouth and choked on one wayward peanut. He turned blue and expired. Death is mundane.
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By Rancid
#15119029
I've always heard about stories of near death experiences where people have an extreme euphoria during the experience. The realization that nothing in life matters because you are about to die sends people into a bliss. There are even stories of people that get pulled back from the brink, only to be come angry that we did not let them go.

Anyway, hopefully when I die it will be an awesome experience like that.
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By Wellsy
#15119031
Rancid wrote:There are even stories of people that get pulled back from the brink, only to be come angry that we did not let them go.

That sounds like someone overdosing on heroin and getting brought back on Narcan XD
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By Beren
#15119033
Sivad wrote:I wouldn't count on it, that's just something atheists tell themselves to relieve their religious angst. Total annihilation sounds good to me too but somehow I doubt any of us will get off that easy. You should probably be prepared for a cosmic reckoning where you're laid bare before the universe and forced to confront the ugly truth about yourself in every excruciatingly pitiful detail. Every failure and weakness and all the bullshit and hypocrisy, it's all gonna catch up with you and be on full display before God and everyone.

I figure it's what we all owe and it's the kind of agonizing ordeal that you come out the other side better than you went in so I say bring judgement day the fuck on.

Don't you expect too much from death? I'd only expect my dead relatives to welcome me on the other side, and that's it.
By B0ycey
#15119034
Sometimes I wonder if death is even possible. That is time is realitive and the processes of consciousness is required to create the perception of reality in a point of time. So if time exists, it must exist eternally and as such some does your consciousness that will forever be in an eternal loop. You just only recall it at specific periods.
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By Beren
#15119038
B0ycey wrote:Sometimes I wonder if death is even possible.

It's impossible from the individual's point of view. People never realise they're exiting because it's a never ending experience to them. It's like a singularity at the end of life, like the real function f(x)=1/x has a singularity at x=0, where it seems to "explode" to (+/-)∞ and is hence not defined (according to Wikipedia).
By Sivad
#15119098
Beren wrote:Don't you expect too much from death? I'd only expect my dead relatives to welcome me on the other side, and that's it.


It's not anything I expect, it's what people who have been confirmed clinically dead( no detectable brain activity) say they experienced. Regardless of whether the experience is "real", it's something that people do in fact experience. Some say it's not all together unpleasant and for some it's so scary and painful that they're never right again after it happens to them. Everyone who has the experience says it's the most intense and powerful experience you can ever have.
By Sivad
#15119101
I like to think that everyone at some point is gonna be confronted with the full and undeniable truth about themselves. It's not really a judgement day or anything and I don't think there's any eternal condemnation, I just think that at some point in everyone's life there's gonna be an inescapable moment that seems like an eternity where we come to fully understand exactly what kind of assholes we really are. It's the best justice I can imagine for people and I think for most people it's going to be quite unpleasant.
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By Beren
#15119193
Sivad wrote:It's not anything I expect, it's what people who have been confirmed clinically dead( no detectable brain activity) say they experienced. Regardless of whether the experience is "real", it's something that people do in fact experience. Some say it's not all together unpleasant and for some it's so scary and painful that they're never right again after it happens to them. Everyone who has the experience says it's the most intense and powerful experience you can ever have.

So they had such an intense and powerful experience without detectable brain activity. Interesting, they must have been over there indeed.

However, while my grandmother was dying she was talking to her mother, although she'd been religious her whole life. She was not yet dead, though.
By B0ycey
#15119218
Sivad wrote:It's not anything I expect, it's what people who have been confirmed clinically dead( no detectable brain activity) say they experienced. Regardless of whether the experience is "real", it's something that people do in fact experience. Some say it's not all together unpleasant and for some it's so scary and painful that they're never right again after it happens to them. Everyone who has the experience says it's the most intense and powerful experience you can ever have.


This reminds me of the film flatliners, although to have no active brain activity is called "Brain dead" and at that point nobody is going to relate their experience back to you. At best people might have what is called a near death experience where they have an experience that is triggered by their consciousness although if it was true that death is eurphoric - which would make sense from an evolution standpoint, I can see why if the brain was triggered in thinking it was dying their experience would be pleasurable.
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By Beren
#15119223
B0ycey wrote:This reminds me of the film flatliners, although to have no active brain activity is called "Brain dead" and at that point nobody is going to relate their experience back to you. At best people might have what is called a near death experience where they have an experience that is triggered by their consciousness although if it was true that death is eurphoric - which would make sense from an evolution standpoint, I can see why if the brain was triggered in thinking it was dying their experience would be pleasurable.

So the brain dead say the universe questions you after or in your death. I wonder if they also suggest people vote for Trump. :lol:
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By Potemkin
#15119225
B0ycey wrote:This reminds me of the film flatliners, although to have no active brain activity is called "Brain dead" and at that point nobody is going to relate their experience back to you. At best people might have what is called a near death experience where they have an experience that is triggered by their consciousness although if it was true that death is eurphoric - which would make sense from an evolution standpoint, I can see why if the brain was triggered in thinking it was dying their experience would be pleasurable.

Why would that make sense from an evolutionary standpoint? Once an organism has passed the age at which it can reproduce itself, evolution tends to 'lose interest' in it, for obvious reasons. It seems to me that nothing which alters the way an organism experiences its own death could be of any evolutionary benefit. :eh:
By B0ycey
#15119231
Potemkin wrote:Why would that make sense from an evolutionary standpoint? Once an organism has passed the age at which it can reproduce itself, evolution tends to 'lose interest' in it, for obvious reasons. It seems to me that nothing which alters the way an organism experiences its own death could be of any evolutionary benefit. :eh:


The same reason an infected tooth eases over time. Pain is best managed by the brain so the individual acts rationally. In a tribe with predators, what use is a member screaming in pain when about to die?
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By Drlee
#15119234
Why would that make sense from an evolutionary standpoint? Once an organism has passed the age at which it can reproduce itself, evolution tends to 'lose interest' in it, for obvious reasons. It seems to me that nothing which alters the way an organism experiences its own death could be of any evolutionary benefit.


Because living past the age in which it can reproduce itself is a very recent phenomena? And today, for all intent and purpose does not exist at all.
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By Potemkin
#15119289
Drlee wrote:Because living past the age in which it can reproduce itself is a very recent phenomena?

Even if this is true, how is it relevant?

And today, for all intent and purpose does not exist at all.

Not sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify?
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By Drlee
#15119363
Even if this is true, how is it relevant?


Reproductive age had nothing to do with evolution.


And today, for all intent and purpose does not exist at all.


Not sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify?


We are all capable of reproduction long past the age at which we become incapable. Our motivation for living past the time when we choose to reproduce is just that. A choice. We value longevity for reasons other than biology.
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