What type of countries are the USA and Canada? - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

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#15016773
Godstud wrote:Most countries already do screen immigrants very carefully. USA and Canada have amongst the highest level of vetting in the world.

However, the American left wants open borders with no vetting.

Yes, you can raise your IQ. Education. Very important.
https://www.success.com/5-smart-ways-to ... tic-stone/


Oh sure, you can become educated and get somewhere in life with a lot of hard work. But, not everybody can be an engineer, physicist, computer scientist or phD in mathematics. Some careers simply require innate advanced brain power.

Many with average intelligence can work hard and go to college and become school teachers (generally not math or science). Others are great social workers, nurses, salesmen, etc.

And then you have people that can only do menial jobs and cannot finish high school.

There is no equality in brain power among humans. Just as there is no equality in multiple other talents such as art, music, running fast, athletics, height, etc.

QFT, although you can't lump all East Asians into one category, as South Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese have very strict cultures, and others are not necessarily the same.


In America East Asians on the average score the highest in ASAT college exams. This is a very constant trend that is worrisome for Harvard This university does not want that many East Asians on campus.
#15016776
Julian658 wrote:However, the American left wants open borders with no vetting.
:roll: That is an absolute lie perpetuated by the right-wing. Only the most tiny, and crazy minority want this. No one on this forum has ever suggested such a thing, unless it was as a joke to trigger a conservative. :lol:

Julian658 wrote:But, not everybody can be an engineer, physicist, computer scientist or phD in mathematics. Some careers simply require innate advanced brain power.
You can't train someone to be talented in something they are not talented in. You can, with hard work, become an engineer or doctor even without particularly high IQ.

Julian658 wrote:And then you have people that can only do menial jobs and cannot finish high school.
That person not finishing high school may simply not be talented in scholastic achievement. They might be a brilliant musician or woodworker.

Julian658 wrote: Just as there is no equality in multiple other talents such as art, music, running fast, athletics, height, etc.
I agree.

Julian658 wrote:In America East Asians on the average score the highest in ASAT college exams.
I think this has to do with the carry-over from their family's cultures. Good parenting and proper motivation can do wonders.

Julian658 wrote:This is a very constant trend that is worrisome for Harvard This university does not want that many East Asians on campus.
No one gives a fuck what those racist twats think. University is supposed to be based on merit, not race or any other factors. That said, Harvard is just a dumping ground for rich children, for the most part.

I did have a friend who applied to Harvard... He was denied because his parents were divorced and he didn't have a lot of money to donate to Harvard. He got his Mech Eng. degree in 3 years(normal is 4) with a 4.0 average, then went on to get an MBA. He made his first company at 30, then retired 5 years later after selling it for $20 million+.

Harvard's a joke.
#15016852
I basically read this whole thread, as I on occasion have pockets of time on my hands at work, and what better way to spend smoke breaks than reading PoFo.

It's mostly old posts, but Quatz. is largely correct to my understanding, and he was sort of provoking reaction which was in large part emotional.

It's not that France never did anything shitty, but the early settlers in North America were largely fur trappers, shipping mink skins back to France.

This is different from the English farmers, who were poor folk, wanting to take out land claims, and who in the process displaced the people already living there, with the collusion of the relevant authorities. For their parts, the authorities probably wanted to placate their redundant populations, while also using their energies to conquer new lands; in those cases where the authorities didn't help out, the 'settlers' would do what they would.

American fur trappers aren't particularly known for being vitriolic toward the First Nation peoples. Why should it be expected that the French fur trappers would have been?

There might have been trap line disputes here and there, but in large part there was probably enough fur to go around. If you are a fur trapper, you are close to nature. You'd probably be more apt to be friendly with the people who've lived on the land for centuries. In part, there's less need for conflict, but in part it's sort of a natural situation, being that your life style is such as it is, largely living off the land, and exploring the wilderness (as opposed to 'taming' it); plus, there's probably plenty to be learned from interacting with the people(s) who know the land deeply.

Quatz is sort of a dick (actually I like the guy), but this thread includes a lot of reactionaries, reflexively attacking him.
#15016860
Julian658 wrote:I agree, there are many studies that say poverty reduces IQ. But, this is just a correlation. Maybe IQ is a predictor of poverty.

Why is Japan so advanced?


That doesn't explain how children are simply of a lower IQ because by accident of birth, are born into poverty.

In fact, I would say it's not the case because for them, opportunity is the greater need, though, their being conscious of the situation in which they are brought up, must affect their outlook & confidence.

However, probably across the globe, poor children acquire the necessary survival skills, whether that is street credibility, or vocational, in fact, I would say that they are much better equipped than molly cuddled kids from more prosperous families as a result of their backgrounds.

Again, education is not indicative of intelligence, the latter is the effect of using acquired knowledge from all sources that stimulate one's interest, that could equally be academic,vocational, recreational, observational & practical involvement.

The thing about the human experience is that learning is hardwired into our brains from the moment we are conceived, implying that it is as much instinctively utilised as it is a cultural thing.

If you observe different world cultures, it's pretty amazing just how resilient people of all ages are in any situation, we have to be, because, otherwise, how else would we have acquired the skills to survive just about anywhere on the globe.

IMHO, what determines just how far a person gets ahead in life, the most important factor way ahead of any other, is down to one very important word..attitude.


#15016920
Nonsense wrote:That doesn't explain how children are simply of a lower IQ because by accident of birth, are born into poverty.

In fact, I would say it's not the case because for them, opportunity is the greater need, though, their being conscious of the situation in which they are brought up, must affect their outlook & confidence.

However, probably across the globe, poor children acquire the necessary survival skills, whether that is street credibility, or vocational, in fact, I would say that they are much better equipped than molly cuddled kids from more prosperous families as a result of their backgrounds.

Again, education is not indicative of intelligence, the latter is the effect of using acquired knowledge from all sources that stimulate one's interest, that could equally be academic,vocational, recreational, observational & practical involvement.

The thing about the human experience is that learning is hardwired into our brains from the moment we are conceived, implying that it is as much instinctively utilised as it is a cultural thing.

If you observe different world cultures, it's pretty amazing just how resilient people of all ages are in any situation, we have to be, because, otherwise, how else would we have acquired the skills to survive just about anywhere on the globe.

IMHO, what determines just how far a person gets ahead in life, the most important factor way ahead of any other, is down to one very important word..attitude.




I agree, with your post. But, if a person is not smart enough to be an engineer the attitude will not help. However, attitude leads to achievements that match the person's innate talents and intelligence.
#15017036
Julian658 wrote:I agree, with your post. But, if a person is not smart enough to be an engineer the attitude will not help. However, attitude leads to achievements that match the person's innate talents and intelligence.


We are getting somewhere. :)
#15017070
Julian658 wrote:Knife crime is a problem over there.


Okay.

Now you have to show that it is due to immigration.

You want to ignore that, OK. You live in a lefty echo chamber.


You really cannot help making these little insults, I guess.

Both black and white are perfectly capable of doing knife crime. But, black gangs seem to do it more and they target fellow Africans more. They kill black more frequently and it is an issue of black on black violence just like in the USA. Any sane parent would remove the children from those areas.


This contradicts your previous evidence.

Also, what was up with the unsourced graph and link to Google results?

Did you intend to link to the actual source of your graph?

—————————

@Nonsense

I am merely following the evidence that Julian gave us.
#15017175
Pants-of-dog wrote:Okay.

Now you have to show that it is due to immigration.



You really cannot help making these little insults, I guess.



This contradicts your previous evidence.

Also, what was up with the unsourced graph and link to Google results?

Did you intend to link to the actual source of your graph?

—————————

@Nonsense

I am merely following the evidence that Julian gave us.


Your posts are predictable. When a person is ideologically possessed they regurgitate the same dogma of his or her peers. It is like listening to the same song over and over again. There is no originality, you stick to the ideology and do not deviate. Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation
#15017179
Julian658 wrote:When a person is ideologically possessed they regurgitate the same dogma of his or her peers.
Yes, and why do you think you're like this?

:D

Insulting people isn't an argument.
#15017190
Julian658 wrote:Your posts are predictable. When a person is ideologically possessed they regurgitate the same dogma of his or her peers. It is like listening to the same song over and over again. There is no originality, you stick to the ideology and do not deviate. Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation


Your opinion of me is irrelevant.

http://eprints.hud.ac.uk/id/eprint/3440 ... oebuck.pdf

    Abstract
    Immigration and its relationship with crime have long been discussed and researched in a variety of manners. There has been focus on a wide spectrum of research questions concerning the issue, such as public perceptions, immigrant perceptions, crime rates and immigration trends. The present article considers the crime rates in the areas of the UK with the highest concentrations of first-generation immigrants. The areas were gathered using census data and crime rates from police recorded statistics. The first-generation immigrants were categorised by their area of origin: Europe, Africa and Asia. Quantitative analysis showed that the areas containing the highest concentration of first-generation immigrants saw a drop in crime compared to the areas with the second highest concentration. Results also showed that certain immigrant groups combined in high concentrations make for lower crime rates. Such findings suggest that there may be a cultural aspect at play, and begs further research.

The evidence does not support the claim that more immigration creates more crime. In fact, the evidence contradicts your claim.

;)
#15017212
Julian658 wrote:It is not an insult to point out someone is possessed by ideology.
It works both ways. :D

It's also STILL not an argument. Pants of Dog makes a better argument as you imply immigrants are the problem, and yet facts dispute this.
#15017215
Godstud wrote:It works both ways. :D

It's also STILL not an argument. Pants of Dog makes a better argument as you imply immigrants are the problem, and yet facts dispute this.

Here is a short news reel from the the BBC a very lefty organization on knife crimes. I am not making this up. Most of the people doing the crimes are not originally from the UK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IirUMcqKEMU
#15017227
Julian658 wrote:It is not an insult to point out someone is possessed by ideology.


You are possessed by ideology. :D

https://crdcn.org/immigrants-and-crime-evidence-canada

    Abstract
    There is growing belief in many developed countries, including Canada, that the large influx of the foreign-born population increases crime. Despite the heated public discussion, the immigrant-crime relationship is understudied in the literature. This paper identifies the causal linkages between immigration and crime using panel data constructed from the Uniform Crime Reporting Survey and the master files of the Census of Canada. This paper distinguishes immigrants by their years in Canada and defines three groups: new immigrants, recent immigrants and established immigrants. An instrumental variable strategy based on the historical ethnic distribution is used to correct for the endogenous location choice of immigrants. Two robust patterns emerge. First, new immigrants do not have a significant impact on the property crime rate, but with time spent in Canada, a 10% increase in the recent-immigrant share or established-immigrant share decreases the property crime rate by 2% to 3%. Neither underreporting to police nor the dilution of the criminal pool by the addition of law-abiding immigrants can fully explain the size of the estimates. This suggests that immigration has a spillover effect, such as changing neighbourhood characteristics, which reduces crime rates in the long run. Second, IV estimates are consistently more negative than their OLS counterparts. By not correctly identifying the causal channel, OLS estimation leads to the incorrect conclusion that immigration is associated with higher crime rates.

And...

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bits ... thesis.pdf

    This dissertation examines whether changes in immigration are associated with changes in crime rates at the macro-level over time in Canada. Specifically, I analyze this relationship in Canadian census metropolitan areas (CMAs) and provinces for the period 1976-2011. In general, the research on the relationship between immigration and crime has shown that they are either negatively associated or not related at all. However, most of this work has been conducted in the United States using cross-sectional designs and has focused on one type of crime, namely homicide. Differences between Canada and the United States in the extent and nature of both immigration and crime warrant a study of their relationship and its generalizability beyond the US. My dissertation adds to the literature by using a longitudinal design – which treats immigration as a process that unfolds over time – and extending the analysis beyond homicide to include violent, property, and crime rates.
    My findings show that, controlling for demographic and socioeconomic covariates, changes in immigration are either not significantly associated or negatively associated with changes in crime rates. These results lend support to the generalizability of the findings from studies of US cities to Canadian cities, to larger units of aggregation (i.e., provinces), and across different types of crime.

So, the data from Canada also contradicts your claim.
#15017288
Pants-of-dog wrote:You are possessed by ideology. :D

https://crdcn.org/immigrants-and-crime-evidence-canada

    Abstract
    There is growing belief in many developed countries, including Canada, that the large influx of the foreign-born population increases crime. Despite the heated public discussion, the immigrant-crime relationship is understudied in the literature. This paper identifies the causal linkages between immigration and crime using panel data constructed from the Uniform Crime Reporting Survey and the master files of the Census of Canada. This paper distinguishes immigrants by their years in Canada and defines three groups: new immigrants, recent immigrants and established immigrants. An instrumental variable strategy based on the historical ethnic distribution is used to correct for the endogenous location choice of immigrants. Two robust patterns emerge. First, new immigrants do not have a significant impact on the property crime rate, but with time spent in Canada, a 10% increase in the recent-immigrant share or established-immigrant share decreases the property crime rate by 2% to 3%. Neither underreporting to police nor the dilution of the criminal pool by the addition of law-abiding immigrants can fully explain the size of the estimates. This suggests that immigration has a spillover effect, such as changing neighbourhood characteristics, which reduces crime rates in the long run. Second, IV estimates are consistently more negative than their OLS counterparts. By not correctly identifying the causal channel, OLS estimation leads to the incorrect conclusion that immigration is associated with higher crime rates.

And...

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bits ... thesis.pdf

    This dissertation examines whether changes in immigration are associated with changes in crime rates at the macro-level over time in Canada. Specifically, I analyze this relationship in Canadian census metropolitan areas (CMAs) and provinces for the period 1976-2011. In general, the research on the relationship between immigration and crime has shown that they are either negatively associated or not related at all. However, most of this work has been conducted in the United States using cross-sectional designs and has focused on one type of crime, namely homicide. Differences between Canada and the United States in the extent and nature of both immigration and crime warrant a study of their relationship and its generalizability beyond the US. My dissertation adds to the literature by using a longitudinal design – which treats immigration as a process that unfolds over time – and extending the analysis beyond homicide to include violent, property, and crime rates.
    My findings show that, controlling for demographic and socioeconomic covariates, changes in immigration are either not significantly associated or negatively associated with changes in crime rates. These results lend support to the generalizability of the findings from studies of US cities to Canadian cities, to larger units of aggregation (i.e., provinces), and across different types of crime.

So, the data from Canada also contradicts your claim.


Correlation is not causation.
Furthermore, overall crime has been falling for decades.
However, there are crime spikes such as the knife murders in London. I don't think you can deny the problem with knife crime in the UK.

Regarding Canada: You may have a point. However, the rate of crime is higher among indigenous people (Amerindian) and blacks. The former are not migrants, the latter may very well be 2nd or 3rd generation. Perhaps it is related to low socioeconomic status and ethnicity. Some groups tend to be more violent than others.
#15017291
Pants-of-dog wrote:You are possessed by ideology. :D

https://crdcn.org/immigrants-and-crime-evidence-canada

    Abstract
    There is growing belief in many developed countries, including Canada, that the large influx of the foreign-born population increases crime. Despite the heated public discussion, the immigrant-crime relationship is understudied in the literature. This paper identifies the causal linkages between immigration and crime using panel data constructed from the Uniform Crime Reporting Survey and the master files of the Census of Canada. This paper distinguishes immigrants by their years in Canada and defines three groups: new immigrants, recent immigrants and established immigrants. An instrumental variable strategy based on the historical ethnic distribution is used to correct for the endogenous location choice of immigrants. Two robust patterns emerge. First, new immigrants do not have a significant impact on the property crime rate, but with time spent in Canada, a 10% increase in the recent-immigrant share or established-immigrant share decreases the property crime rate by 2% to 3%. Neither underreporting to police nor the dilution of the criminal pool by the addition of law-abiding immigrants can fully explain the size of the estimates. This suggests that immigration has a spillover effect, such as changing neighbourhood characteristics, which reduces crime rates in the long run. Second, IV estimates are consistently more negative than their OLS counterparts. By not correctly identifying the causal channel, OLS estimation leads to the incorrect conclusion that immigration is associated with higher crime rates.

And...

https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bits ... thesis.pdf

    This dissertation examines whether changes in immigration are associated with changes in crime rates at the macro-level over time in Canada. Specifically, I analyze this relationship in Canadian census metropolitan areas (CMAs) and provinces for the period 1976-2011. In general, the research on the relationship between immigration and crime has shown that they are either negatively associated or not related at all. However, most of this work has been conducted in the United States using cross-sectional designs and has focused on one type of crime, namely homicide. Differences between Canada and the United States in the extent and nature of both immigration and crime warrant a study of their relationship and its generalizability beyond the US. My dissertation adds to the literature by using a longitudinal design – which treats immigration as a process that unfolds over time – and extending the analysis beyond homicide to include violent, property, and crime rates.
    My findings show that, controlling for demographic and socioeconomic covariates, changes in immigration are either not significantly associated or negatively associated with changes in crime rates. These results lend support to the generalizability of the findings from studies of US cities to Canadian cities, to larger units of aggregation (i.e., provinces), and across different types of crime.

So, the data from Canada also contradicts your claim.


Forgot to add:

Jail: “The extent to which blacks and Aboriginals are over represented in Canadian correctional institutions is similar to that of African Americans in the United States”. Blacks are over represented in federal prisons by more than 300% vs their population, while for Aboriginals the over representation is nearly 500%. The same disparities exist in provincial jails. In Nova Scotia Blacks are 2% of the population but 14% of the jail population. In Manitoba Aboriginals are 16% of the population but 70% of the jail population. In Alberta the numbers for Aboriginals are 6% and 39%. Moreover, these imbalances are getting worse, not better.
http://johnhoward.ca/blog/race-crime-justice-canada/

The same is found in all Western countries with a black population (Canada, England, USA, etc). They are always overrepresented in prison. Do you know why?
#15017298
Julian658 wrote:Correlation is not causation.


Yes, but since I never claimed there was a causal link (i.e. you did), this is an irrelevant criticism.

These three studies all contradict your causal claim.

Furthermore, overall crime has been falling for decades.
However, there are crime spikes such as the knife murders in London. I don't think you can deny the problem with knife crime in the UK.


Yes, overall crime has been falling for decades, while immigration from the developing world has ramped up a lot in the last few decades. If immigration caused crime, overall crime would not be falling for decades. It would be rising dramatically. It is not. So this is yet another point of evidence that contradicts your claim.

Regarding Canada: You may have a point. However, the rate of crime is higher among indigenous people (Amerindian) and blacks. The former are not migrants, the latter may very well be 2nd or 3rd generation. Perhaps it is related to low socioeconomic status and ethnicity. Some groups tend to be more violent than others.


Now you are openly veering into racist arguments.
#15017303
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, but since I never claimed there was a causal link (i.e. you did), this is an irrelevant criticism.

These three studies all contradict your causal claim.



Yes, overall crime has been falling for decades, while immigration from the developing world has ramped up a lot in the last few decades. If immigration caused crime, overall crime would not be falling for decades. It would be rising dramatically. It is not. So this is yet another point of evidence that contradicts your claim.



Now you are openly veering into racist arguments.


To report statistics is not racism. In Canada, USA, and the UK the blacks are massively over represented in prison and in murders.
Do you have a reason for this?

First generation migrants from non 3rd world countries will not do crime. Now that I look at the UK knife crime issue it seems to mostly involve black people born in the UK. They are the offspring of migrants that came in a few decades ago.
#15017306
Julian658 wrote:To report statistics is not racism. In Canada, USA, and the UK the blacks are massively over represented in prison and in murders.
Do you have a reason for this?


Do you? You are the one who keeps bringing up race and claiming it has an impact on crime.

First generation migrants from non 3rd world countries will not do crime. Now that I look at the UK knife crime issue it seems to mostly involve black people born in the UK. They are the offspring of migrants that came in a few decades ago.


You really seem to want to accuse blacks of being violent.
#15017314
Pants-of-dog wrote:Do you? You are the one who keeps bringing up race and claiming it has an impact on crime.



You really seem to want to accuse blacks of being violent.

I am simply reporting statistics. Is it racist to report a fact?
It is also a fact that Asians do much less violent crime.

If I was running a country i would do as Canada is doing. They seem to prefer Asian migrants.

Why do you think blacks are over represented in violent crime statistics?
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