[Pants-of-dog]

Dude, I am a Latin American.

I find that hard to believe, but irrelevant.

And I have no issues with Spanish speakers.

I find that hard to believe, but irrelevant.

However, if we import the 3rd world we will get the 3rd world. It does not matter where they are coming from. I understand you guys want free stuff, but someone has to pay for that. If you were a tax payer you would have a better perspective.

Well, since I am a taxpayer, I guess I do have a better perspective, somyou should listen carefully:

First of all, the USA is part of the developing world in many metrics. Health care, parental leave, and income inequality are the three most obvious metrics.

Secondly, if you do import us, we will make your country better. In fact, that is already happening, and will continue to happen regardless of what you believe or notice.

Third, you do not have a choice. Ethnic diversity will continue to rise in the developed countries for the foreseeable future.

[Julian658]

I find that hard to believe, but irrelevant.



I find that hard to believe, but irrelevant.

I think it is very relevant. I do not have a bias against my people from Latin America. And most are great and thank God have a Western perspective. Latins tend to integrate and intermarry with no issues.

First of all, the USA is part of the developing world in many metrics. Health care, parental leave, and income inequality are the three most obvious metrics.

I actually agree with parental leave and health care. In this regard the USA needs to move ahead. Pay inequality is a myth and you need to take care of the HOLE in your reasoning. Employers cannot pay women less for the SAME work.

Secondly, if you do import us, we will make your country better. In fact, that is already happening, and will continue to happen regardless of what you believe or notice.

Third, you do not have a choice. Ethnic diversity will continue to rise in the developed countries for the foreseeable future.

THe diversity is great, but if you import diverse crappy people you end up with a crappy society. Look at London in 1960 and at London in 2019. The difference is night and day and the violence, crime, murder, etc are very high due to the importation of too many people form the 3rd world. This is the end result of of policy by Social Justice Warriors that think like you.

[Pants-of-dog]

I actually agree with parental leave and health care. In this regard the USA needs to move ahead. Pay inequality is a myth and you need to take care of the HOLE in your reasoning. Employers cannot pay women less for the SAME work.

You completely missed the point:

The USA, compared to many developed nations, is a lot like the developing countries.

THe diversity is great, but if you import diverse crappy people you end up with a crappy society. Look at London in 1960 and at London in 2019. The difference is night and day and the violence, crime, murder, etc are very high due to the importation of too many people form the 3rd world.

I bet violent crime in London has dramatically decreased since the 1960s, showing that immigrants are actually a good influence.

So. unless you have evidence, I will assume you are wrong.

[Zionist Nationalist]

I bet violent crime in London has dramatically decreased since the 1960s, showing that immigrants are actually a good influence.

So. unless you have evidence, I will assume you are wrong.

I couldn't find statistics about the 1960s but the crime rate in london and UK increased over the last 20 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46984559

[Pants-of-dog]

I couldn't find statistics about the 1960s but the crime rate in london and UK increased over the last 20 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46984559

Maybe. But that is not relevant to the claim.

[Godstud]

The crime rate was far from low 25 years ago

Sir Ian was born in 1953 when the crime total was at least 10 times less than it is now. Those who committed an offence were more likely to be caught and punished: the police cleared up 51 per cent of robberies, compared with about 24 per cent today, and clear-up rates for burglary and theft were twice what they are now.

But by 1981 crime had risen remorselessly: 3.2 million crimes were recorded that year, compared with 434,000 in the year Sir Ian was born, and there were 400,000 recorded burglaries - more than there were last year. Burglary has fallen markedly in recent years, largely because more householders have fitted alarms and better locks, often under pressure from insurance companies after break-ins.

So crime in 1981 was not much better than it is now, even if acquisitive crimes have gone up and back down in the meantime.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/152691 ... s-ago.html


Then again...

How London's homicide rate stacks up against major US cities
Last year, there were 136 homicides in the UK capital, according to Metropolitan Police figures. That translates to a rate of 1.54 homicides per 100,000 people.
In 2017, the number of homicides was slightly higher at 140 incidents -- a homicide rate of 1.59 per 100,000 residents. The 2017 figures include those killed in the London Bridge terror attack in June that year.
In comparison, the 30 largest cities in the US all had a higher murder rate per 100,000, using analysis by New York University's Brennan Center for Justice for 2017 -- the latest available year.
Of the cities examined, Baltimore, Detroit and Chicago had the highest murder rates at 55.8, 39.8 and 24.1 respectively.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/worl ... index.html

Crime rates are LOWER:

Even the homicide rate:


Violence rates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London

[Julian658]

Maybe. But that is not relevant to the claim.

It is relevant. In 1960 London was mostly English.
Nowadays English people are the minority.

Comparing 2000, 2010, and 2019 is meaningless as the city was already crowded with
3rd world migrants.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is relevant.

No, the information that @Zionist Nationalist cited was not relevant to your claim since it dealt with London at a later date.

In 1960 London was mostly English.
Nowadays English people are the minority.

Comparing 2000, 2010, and 2019 is meaningless as the city was already crowded with 3rd world migrants.

Yes, and in 1960, London was almost certainly more violent than it is now.

So, your argument (that immigrants from developing nations make things worse just by showing up) is almost certainly wrong.

[Verv]

Pants of Dog, it appears that the homicide rate in England is quite different from the trends in the US.



England sees a steady but small rise beginning in the 1970s, which would probably correlate to some degree with the increased number of immigrant populations, particularly second gen. stuff.



Something else strange apparently happened around 2005 when it comes to crime rates.

Does it have something to do with how they are recorded?

[Pants-of-dog]

It could be a lot of things.

Since the only source for any increase in crime since 1960 comes from an unsourced graph, I am not even sure there was an increase in crime, much less one that we can safely attribute to immigration.

[Julian658]

No, the information that @Zionist Nationalist cited was not relevant to your claim since it dealt with London at a later date.



Yes, and in 1960, London was almost certainly more violent than it is now.

So, your argument (that immigrants from developing nations make things worse just by showing up) is almost certainly wrong.

It is always difficult to judge the past with the point of view of today. Violent crime has been declining all over the world for a long time. This is a global phenomenon that suggests people are becoming a bit more civilized. Despite the major violence in cities like Chicago, Baltimore, etc and the mass shootings the overall violent crime has been on the decline.

However, knife murders in a country where guns are forbidden are a problem in London. And it is mostly done by 3rd world migrants. It is not racist to state a fact.

Hundreds of British teenagers are being sent by their parents to East Africa to avoid knife crime in the UK, representatives of the Somali community say. Why are they taking this drastic choice?

Some names have been changed to protect the identity of the interviewees.

"In those few years I was doing my A-levels it was tough. Just seeing people being dropped every other day, being stabbed," Yusuf tells the Victoria Derbyshire programme from his new home in Kenya.

"London's not the place to be for a teenager."

Yusuf was born and raised in London but moved to Nairobi after a close friend in his neighbourhood was stabbed to death.

It is a decision an increasing number of parents are taking, for their children's safety.


Teens are safer in Africa than in London

[Pants-of-dog]

However, knife murders in a country where guns are forbidden are a problem in London. And it is mostly done by 3rd world migrants. It is not racist to state a fact.

As far as I can tell, it is not a fact. It is simply a racist meme believed by people who have an ideological bias against immigration.

Hundreds of British teenagers are being sent by their parents to East Africa to avoid knife crime in the UK, representatives of the Somali community say. Why are they taking this drastic choice?

Some names have been changed to protect the identity of the interviewees.

"In those few years I was doing my A-levels it was tough. Just seeing people being dropped every other day, being stabbed," Yusuf tells the Victoria Derbyshire programme from his new home in Kenya.

"London's not the place to be for a teenager."

Yusuf was born and raised in London but moved to Nairobi after a close friend in his neighbourhood was stabbed to death.

It is a decision an increasing number of parents are taking, for their children's safety.

Teens are safer in Africa than in London

So, according to your evidence, developing countries in Africa are safer than developed countries.

This actually contradicts your claim, even if it does support the claim that London is more violent now than in 1960.

[Godstud]

@Pants-of-dog Yes, London is more violent than London in 1960. It's not, however, more violent than London in the 90's and onward.

FFS, London, and the English, have always been a violent bunch. My friend in his 50s was a big hooligan from near Wimbledon, and fought all the time.

[Julian658]

As far as I can tell, it is not a fact. It is simply a racist meme believed by people who have an ideological bias against immigration.

AN epidemic of murder by knife in London is not a meme. It is a fact and you are welcomed to investigate that. The major of London a Muslim man has been accused of being extremely soft on crime.

So, according to your evidence, developing countries in Africa are safer than developed countries.

This actually contradicts your claim, even if it does support the claim that London is more violent now than in 1960.

A nice African kid growing up in an African neighborhood in London is in danger of being a victim of a knife crime. That it is more dangerous than back in Africa is worrisome. At least this is how some parents see it.

[Godstud]

This is a very good article on it:
The numbers behind the UK’s knife crime “national emergency”
https://qz.com/1567231/the-statistics-b ... emergency/

As for the Mayor of London...

Sadiq Khan, the knife-crime fall guy
But is this a true reflection of the facts? Knife crime, it’s true, has risen in London, but it is not significantly higher than it was in 2011/12. There were just over 14,000 knife or sharp instrument crimes recorded by the Metropolitan Police in 2011/12; there were 14,700 in 2017/18.

The more worrying statistic, in fact, is that knife crime is rising more steeply outside the capital, beyond Khan’s purview. 42 out of the 44 police forces across England and Wales have reported rises since 2011. There were 39,818 offences in the 12 months to September 2018, compared with 23,945 in the year ending March 2014. Knife crime has now risen for the fourth consecutive year in England and Wales.

Britain’s most senior police chief, Cressida Dick, appears to agree, and has claimed that there is “some link” between violent crime and falling police numbers. The number of police officers in England and Wales has been cut by more than 20,000 since 2010. This seems the most obvious place to start pointing the finger. However Theresa May caused consternation earlier this year when she said there was “no direct correlation between certain crimes and police numbers”.
https://unherd.com/2019/07/sadiq-khan-t ... -fall-guy/

[Rancid]

I can't say I've ever felt unsafe in London (I've visited 4-5 times thus far). I was just in Chicago (highest, if not one of the highest rates of murder in the nation), I can't say I've ever felt unsafe there either. I also lived in Chicago for two years, never felt unsafe.

I suspect, that often, the media reports on these crimes as though they are evenly distributed across a given city. The reality is, crime is not distributed evenly, and usually isolated to very specific areas (the ghettos). If you stay out of those areas, you have nothing to worry about. That is, of course, unless you live in those areas.

[Godstud]

Well said, @Rancid.

Vancouver's a very safe city, but if you wandered down to East Hastings Street.

I remember seeing a show about dangerous places, and when they were going to East Hastings the interviewer got hit by a thrown bottle, and they cancelled any further investigation.

[Rancid]

@Julian658,

hablas espanol?!?!?!?

Soy Latino tambien. Me encanta grita palabras de maldicion mexicana. Como "A la verga Hijo de PUUUUUTAAAAAAAA!!!!" I yell then whem I'm drunk and out on the town. There is usually a random Mexican somewhere that gives me a high five afterwards.


For the record, I'm not Mexican.

[Godstud]

For the record, I'm not Mexican.

Suuuure, you aren't.

[Rancid]

Suuuure, you aren't.

Chinga tu madre wei!

I've learned way too much Mexican slang here in Texas.

Anyway, I think another thing we will seeing in the US with respect to crime rates is the following.

All/most cities in the US will start to report falling crime rates. This is because of the generational shift where new generations want to live in an urban environment. They do not want to live in the suburbs like past generations have. This means more gentrification will happen, which pushes the poor people out to the suburbs. This means crime rates will fall in the cities, but they will go up in the suburbs.