Trump and Russiagate - Page 187 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By Hindsite
#14980015
jimjam wrote:President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

If that happened, then it sounds like a reasonable precaution, considering all the leaks to the media. World leaders always expect that their confidential conversations will remain confidential.

jimjam wrote:The concerns have been compounded by actions and positions Trump has taken as president that are seen as favorable to the Kremlin. He has dismissed Russia’s election interference as a “hoax,” suggested that Russia was entitled to annex Crimea, repeatedly attacked NATO allies, resisted efforts to impose sanctions on Moscow, and begun to pull U.S. forces out of Syria — a move that critics see as effectively ceding ground to Russia.

This is more bullshit. It is the President's job to determine policy with foreign leaders, friend or foe. As to the NATO allies, it is about time a President had the bravery to criticize those that were not doing what they were supposed to be doing to support the alliance. If Trump is able to make a friend out of a foe, that is good. And if Trump can pull our troops out of Syria and Afghanistan , that is also good for us. He doesn't need to listen to these warmongers all the time that seem to only want continual war.
#14980061
Torus34 wrote:Can the Congress of the United States of America exercise its subpoena power and require one who has acted as a translator for the President to testify? I understand that lying to the Congress is a not-insignificant matter.

If you are Hillary Clinton, James Comey, James Clapper, or another establishment figure it is not an issue at all.

Torus34 wrote:For conspiratory theorists, you might wish to ponder whether the translator could be considered a co-conspirator and therefore have a legitimate reason to claim protection from testifying under the umbrella of the 5th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

The conversation is subject to executive privilege, so it isn't something Congress could compel.

Suntzu wrote:This translator is actually the lesbian lover of Hillary Clinton. :lol:

Huma Abedin?

jimjam wrote:President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

Well, it's nice to see he is more responsible with classified information than Hillary Clinton.

jimjam wrote:The concerns have been compounded by actions and positions Trump has taken as president that are seen as favorable to the Kremlin. He has dismissed Russia’s election interference as a “hoax,” suggested that Russia was entitled to annex Crimea, repeatedly attacked NATO allies, resisted efforts to impose sanctions on Moscow, and begun to pull U.S. forces out of Syria — a move that critics see as effectively ceding ground to Russia.

Syria isn't Russian territory. Obama allowed Russia to annex Crimea. Bush allowed Russia to invade Georgia. Hillary Clinton signed off on selling US uranium mines to Russian interests. It's hard to characterize Trump as somehow a Russian puppet considering the actions of his predecessors.
#14980062
jimjam wrote:So the guy who is being investigated fires the guy running the investigation? How much you want to bet Giuliani is the next head of the FBI? This is a terrifying development, and an incredibly dangerous time for our country, and all I can hope is that the Republicans in Congress who still have the guts to stand up to this bully ask the tough questions! This is not Watergate, it's WAY beyond Watergate.

Conservatives have been conducting a slow motion "coup d'etat" over the past 30 years. Gerrymandering. Voter suppression. Judicial manipulation. Propaganda programs to misinform and confuse large swaths of the voting public. The removal of Comey in the midst of a crucial investigation of the President and his enablers is one more step towards the inevitable: the perversion and ultimate destruction of democracy in the US leading to permanent conservative control of the country. This will not end well.

Mr. Comey was fired because he was leading an active investigation that could bring down a president. Though compromised by his own poor judgment, Mr. Comey’s agency has been pursuing ties between the Russian government and Mr. Trump and his associates, with potentially ruinous consequences for the administration.

With congressional Republicans continuing to resist any serious investigation, Mr. Comey’s inquiry was the only aggressive effort to get to the bottom of Russia’s ties to the Trump campaign. So far, the scandal has engulfed Paul Manafort, one of Mr. Trump’s campaign managers; Roger Stone, a longtime confidant; Carter Page, one of the campaign’s early foreign-policy advisers; Michael Flynn, who was forced out as national security adviser; and Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who recused himself in March from the Russia inquiry after failing to disclose during his confirmation hearings that he had met twice during the campaign with the Russian ambassador to the United States.

This is a tense and uncertain time in the nation’s history. The president of the United States, who is no more above the law than any other citizen, has now decisively crippled the F.B.I.’s ability to carry out an investigation of him and his associates. There is no guarantee that Mr. Comey’s replacement, who will be chosen by Mr. Trump, will continue that investigation; in fact, there are already hints to the contrary.

The sudden dismissal of one of Washington’s most prominent officials added to the sense of chaos in a White House that has been roiled by controversy, dogged by scandal and engaged in a furious fight with adversaries.

Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon and a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in a post on Twitter that Mr. Comey “should be immediately called to testify in an open hearing about the status of Russia/Trump investigation at the time he was fired.”


The very question of whether the Russians interfered in the exclusive American elections laid the foundation for the false belief that no one ever dared and did not dare to influence the pseudo-democratic processes in the United States. The existing legal lobbying mechanism just means that for the money in the states, anyone can turn the wheel of politics in the direction he needs. This was repeatedly used by the governments of foreign and not always friendly countries.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14980098
Trump is the swamp monster. He filled the swamp with even more swamp-water. How can you not fucking see that?
5 of the people he put into government are ex-Goldman and Sachs alumni. :knife: They are the very epitome of Establishment scum.

Government Sachs and the Trump Administration
https://inequality.org/research/governm ... istration/
#14980105
Godstud wrote:Trump is the swamp monster. He filled the swamp with even more swamp-water. How can you not fucking see that?
5 of the people he put into government are ex-Goldman and Sachs alumni. :knife: They are the very epitome of Establishment scum.

Government Sachs and the Trump Administration
https://inequality.org/research/governm ... istration/


You realize their association with Hillary?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14980108
I'm not arguing that Clinton wasn't Establishment, though. You're arguing that Trump wasn't but you're so wrong that it's not even funny. :knife:

The evidence of overwhelmingly against Trump being NON-Establishment.
#14980116
Godstud wrote:I'm not arguing that Clinton wasn't Establishment, though. You're arguing that Trump wasn't but you're so wrong that it's not even funny. :knife:

The evidence of overwhelmingly against Trump being NON-Establishment.


You are incorrect. I have stated in many posts my concerns Trump would be turned by the establishment due to people not realizing they should support him at least temporarily. If the swamp wins, it is because of anti Trumpers.
As stated before, it didn’t matter if Trump was a sincere populist. We had his platform to hold him to, to drain the swamp. That was undermined by those who failed to understand the opportunity.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980230
There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Retired Adm. James G. Stavridis, the former supreme allied commander of NATO, said an American withdrawal from the alliance would be “a geopolitical mistake of epic proportion.”

“Even discussing the idea of leaving NATO — let alone actually doing so — would be the gift of the century for Putin,” Admiral Stavridis said.
#14980233
jimjam wrote:There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Retired Adm. James G. Stavridis, the former supreme allied commander of NATO, said an American withdrawal from the alliance would be “a geopolitical mistake of epic proportion.”

“Even discussing the idea of leaving NATO — let alone actually doing so — would be the gift of the century for Putin,” Admiral Stavridis said.


Trump is a nationalist. How does withdrawing from NATO harm the US? Of course he had no intention of doing so, but it is an interesting thought experiment. Are you confusing harm to Europe as harm to the US?
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980237
it's looking good for Comrade Donald's Trump Tower Moscow. Maybe Donald the "nationalist" can, next, shut down U.S. embassies around the world. We could use all the money we save to build a wall along the East coast to keep out brown people.
#14980273
Godstud wrote:Trump is the swamp monster. He filled the swamp with even more swamp-water. How can you not fucking see that?

The point is that he's not politically correct. He goes against the establishment narrative and drives the media crazy. Being opposed to the Washington cabal doesn't mean we are communists, or that we accept your elastic notion of what we mean so that it means something else. The shutdown is already the longest in US history, and it's really not very long--just long enough for a bunch of federal employees to whine incessantly.

Godstud wrote:5 of the people he put into government are ex-Goldman and Sachs alumni. :knife: They are the very epitome of Establishment scum.

Maybe they will lend him money now, so he won't have to go hat in hand to the Russians. :lol:

One Degree wrote:I give up. The swamp wins again. Apparently Trump’s pick for attorney general is best friends with Mueller.

That is why anyone who has bi-partisan support is generally suspicious.

One Degree wrote:I have stated in many posts my concerns Trump would be turned by the establishment due to people not realizing they should support him at least temporarily.

I've stated that he's more or less an old school Democrat. He's not really a conservative. However, having him make Supreme Court nominations has been helpful.

jimjam wrote:it's looking good for Comrade Donald's Trump Tower Moscow. Maybe Donald the "nationalist" can, next, shut down U.S. embassies around the world. We could use all the money we save to build a wall along the East coast to keep out brown people.

Why don't you like the commies all of a sudden? Shouldn't we be open minded and consider other points of view?

Anyway, embassies are an outmoded idea. We could stand to trim a lot of fat there.

British meddling in the US election hasn't helped Theresa May. Her government is collapsing as she tried to overrule the will of the British people. The Jilet Jaunes protests more than doubled over the last weekend. The globalists are struggling.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980275
The recent revelation that former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort shared the Trump campaign’s private polling data with alleged Russian intelligence operative Konstantin Kilimnik was the most important evidence of potential “collusion” revealed publicly thus far.

This evidence strongly suggests that Manafort sought aid from the Kremlin. Why else would the campaign chair of a major party presidential candidate provide internal polling data to a Russian intelligence operative? While it is not illegal in and of itself to prove internal polling data to a Russian operative, neither is wearing a ski mask while walking into a bank.

Both actions strongly suggest a crime was committed.
#14980279
Why would you not share polling data? How do Russian’s benefit from this? Do you think this polling was some super poll?
#14980292
jimjam wrote:Both actions strongly suggest a crime was committed.

This brings us back to square one: collusion is not a crime. What crime are you alleging was committed here? "A" crime isn't good enough. A defendant has an absolute right to know the nature and cause of the charges against them.

We still don't even see probable cause for the non-crime of "collusion". Manafort has already been prosecuted on tax and bank wire fraud charges for matters utterly unrelated to Trump's campaign. Maybe he will tell another lie or not tell the whole truth. Whatever. The only possible crime in this is that somebody hacked the DNC server, which still looks like an inside job (Seth Rich). Clearly it wasn't Trump. Clearly nobody in the RNC had that skill set.

They have all of the campaign's financial records. There are no payments to the Russians, so there was no payment to hack servers. After more than two years of investigations, surely you can do better than innuendo.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980323
blackjack21 wrote:This brings us back to square one: collusion is not a crime. What crime are you alleging was committed here? "A" crime isn't good enough. A defendant has an absolute right to know the nature and cause of the charges against them.

We still don't even see probable cause for the non-crime of "collusion". Manafort has already been prosecuted on tax and bank wire fraud charges for matters utterly unrelated to Trump's campaign. Maybe he will tell another lie or not tell the whole truth. Whatever. The only possible crime in this is that somebody hacked the DNC server, which still looks like an inside job (Seth Rich). Clearly it wasn't Trump. Clearly nobody in the RNC had that skill set.

They have all of the campaign's financial records. There are no payments to the Russians, so there was no payment to hack servers. After more than two years of investigations, surely you can do better than innuendo.


the game is far from over and is just now becoming interesting. All your fluff aside ….. WTF was Trump's campaign manager doing giving confidential Trump campaign info to a Russian operative? Come on now, this shit is quite strange. Be patient, I have not seen what Mueller has seen and, possibly, you and OD haven't either.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14980331
jimjam wrote:the game is far from over and is just now becoming interesting. All your fluff aside ….. WTF was Trump's campaign manager doing giving confidential Trump campaign info to a Russian operative? Come on now, this shit is quite strange. Be patient, I have not seen what Mueller has seen and, possibly, you and OD haven't either.

It is not known for sure that Paul Manafort shared any campaign polling information with a supposed Russian spy. Most of the polling information is reported to have been publicly available. That so called Russian operative is reported to have been working for Manafort for two years and before Manafort joined the Trump campaign for only about 3 months. Perhaps he stole the polling information, if he got any at all. When asked about it, Trump said he did not know anything about it. Mueller is going to have to prove that and a lot more to pin a crime on Trump.
#14980378
I am still waiting for someone to tell me why I should care the Russians got polling information. Especially polling information from a biased source. Since when did inaccurate polls become vital information? This lunacy keeps getting more and more bizarre. Next we will find out those evil Russians are buying Levi jeans or watching American TV shows. The horror.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980451
An amazing thing happened yesterday. Eleven Republican senators voted against a Comrade Donald request to remove sanctions against one of Comrade Vladimir's BFF's ,"oligarch" Oleg Deriapska (below) :eek: . Comrade Donald did not request that similar sanctions against Canadian companies be lifted presumably because Canada was a threat to American security :eek: .

Until this startling event it has been unheard of for a Republican senator to go against the wishes of their capo di tutti capi , Donald. This should be grounds for a flurry of entertaining grammar school level tweets, stand by.

Image
User avatar
By jimjam
#14980456
One Degree wrote:I am still waiting for someone to tell me why I should care the Russians got polling information

I was going to but decided to poke myself in the eye repeatedly instead :lol: .

Hindsite wrote: Trump said he did not know anything about it

Boy …. THAT was unexpected. :lol:

Hindsite wrote:Mueller is going to have to prove that and a lot more to pin a crime on Trump.

I haven't yet seen Mueller's findings but …… I suspect that you have :lol:
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