[blackjack21]

I also love their sympathy for one lost paycheck for a federal worker as though the rest of the country hasn't experienced much worse. This is like them being sent to bed with no dinner. They don't know what real hunger looks like. It's awesome seeing the media crowing about how tough it is on the poor federal workers who never have to experience recessions, layoffs, long-term unemployment, etc. One paycheck delayed and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Luckily, it's music to my ears.

[Tainari88]

I also love their sympathy for one lost paycheck for a federal worker as though the rest of the country hasn't experienced much worse. This is like them being sent to bed with no dinner. They don't know what real hunger looks like. It's awesome seeing the media crowing about how tough it is on the poor federal workers who never have to experience recessions, layoffs, long-term unemployment, etc. One paycheck delayed and they are squealing like stuck pigs. Luckily, it's music to my ears.

I wonder Blackjack, you are sensitive to rabble coming in and being ignorant to ignore your 4k china collection. It seems to me you are materialistic in the extreme. If you really believe in this Trump wall? Just cash in all your money and send it in to keep the rabble from Central America out. It is easy. But you won't play with your own money that way. No. But the Federal workers it is ok right? Selfish stuff again. Not attractive on your part Mr. Blackjack.

[Crantag]

The thread title is a filthy lie.

What are we going to do about it? Should those of us that care about truth start our own thread, with an honest title are can we get this title changed? Trump can not end the shut down with out a bill. As far as I'm aware Congress hasn't sent him a bill. Congress can end the shut down any time it wants even without Trump's cooperation.

You are pretty hit and miss as a poster. You are insightful sometimes, but this is a time when you are wrong.

I think you are British. You don't completely understand the US system.

The House has already passed some bills.

McConnel won't bring them for a vote, and he has this power.

His public rationale is that Trump won't sign them, which is perhaps reasonable.

You are technically correct, Congress could end it with a 2/3rds majority vote.

If you consider such a vote likely, you are grossly ignorant of US politics, in the current age.

I nonetheless think it is one of the means which is fairly probable, given the circumstances, but it's going to take Trump's promised months of shutdown for such a compromise between the Dems and Repuds to happen.

A different result is more likely. But if the shutdown continues for months, a veto-proof bill could be passed.

But that would be a (though necessary) unprecedented example of Dems and Repubs coming together.

Such is the dysfunction.

[jimjam]

I don't care what Trump said.

neither, apparently, does Trump.

which leads me to conclude that what he says is of no use or interest other than that attributed to a vapid TV soap opera. hopefully America's next president will have genuine leadership qualities and work for the greater good of the greatest number of people.

[Rich]

You are pretty hit and miss as a poster. You are insightful sometimes, but this is a time when you are wrong.

I think you are British. You don't completely understand the US system.

The House has already passed some bills.

McConnel won't bring them for a vote, and he has this power.

His public rationale is that Trump won't sign them, which is perhaps reasonable.

You are technically correct, Congress could end it with a 2/3rds majority vote.

If you consider such a vote likely, you are grossly ignorant of US politics, in the current age.

Of course I don't consider it likely, but it is still Congress's choice. To get a majority in the House and 60 votes in the Senate requires the Republicans and Democrats to compromise. If the Republican and Democratic Congressional leaderships agreed on a compromise then they would almost certainly have the two thirds votes in both chambers.

In single (significant) chamber proportional representation systems you typically have 4 or 5 major parties and 2 or 3 parties come together once the election result is known to form a coalition. Compromises are made, but the incentive is to exclude the other parties from government. First past the post systems can support stable coalitions when there is a very strong external enemy like in WWI and WWII. The American system often forces coalition government, because the eight branches of government (or power) are split, but because there are only 2 parties its a zero sum game between the 2 parties.

The United States is catching up with the rest of the world in finally getting strongly clustered (coherent) ideological parties. But as I stated these coalition break downs are not new the Civil war was only one of many confrontations between State and Federal government. For the next two years you've got a coalition government led by Trump, Pelosi, McConnel, Schumer and McCarthy. The last four (with the support of their members) can over rule Trump. The first four can over rule McCarthy, but the first three can overrule Schumer and McCarthy on reconciliation. (Yes, yes, I'm perfectly aware that the arithmetic makes reconciliation, unlikely over the next two years.)

I put it to you Crantag that my understanding of the American system is actually considerably better than the average American.

[Stormsmith]

There is a process for people to enter legally. Most of these people are not trying to enter legally. They knew from the time they left their own country that the way they were trying to enter was illegal, but they did not care because they are lawless people. President Trump had nothing to do with authorizing the number of agents or judges needed to process this overwhelming number of migrants entering illegally. That is what Congress is supposed to do, but they have failed to provide for it, if that is what they really wanted. They must be worried about the cost all of a sudden.

Really? How about some stats to back up this claim. There seems to me to be an awful lot of people waiting to be processed legally

Trump does not lie because he is a pathological liar. He lies because he knows his followers are not smart enough to catch him at it.

Agree up to a point, but I also think Trump lies because he loves hearing his base chanting their collective approval, eg "Who's paying?" "Mexico!" Some of these people are probably dumb enough to believe Trump could force Mexico to allow him to meddle in Mexico's budget, but surely to God some knew Trump couldn't. What is alarming, to me, is the number of Trump supporters who espouse the "just tear it down" notion, with absolutely no plan at all. Reminds me of the aftermath of Iraq when some people were rushing their kids into refugee shelters, some people were stealing the national treasures etc. Etc., because Rumsfeld did not have a plan.

When America makes the great Iraqi war fil, either have Lindsay Graham or Blackjack21 play Baghdad Bob!

[Godstud]

Retired young in Thailand. Thinks all Trump supporters (common man) are racist Nazis. Calls others stupid. Lies about criticizing Trump.

Yep, I retired young to a tropical paradise. Irrelevant, of course.

I don't call all trump supports(They are not the common man, but uncommon) racist Nazis. I only call the ones who support Nazis and say/do racist things, that.

Yes, some people are indeed stupid. most of the time it is due to poor education or simple willful ignorance.

I never lied about criticizing Trump, but I challenge you to find a quote where I criticized him for being "vulgar and crude", as you put it. My criticisms of him are for what he does, and what we all know he does, even you. I am not lying, but you most certainly are. The irony!

As for the "emergency"...

[Hindsite]

“I will take the mantle,” Mr. Trump went on. “I will be the one to shut it down — I’m not going to blame you for it.” D.Trump

You should have known Trump did not mean that. That was simply his way of trying to get on the good side of Schumer, who was blamed for the government shut down the last time. However, his hopes for getting the Dems cooperation on getting the wall funded did not pay off this time. I believe his logical next step will be to declare a national emergency because of the border crisis. It appears that he wants to wait a little longer in hopes that the Democrat leaders will come to their senses.

Yep, I retired young to a tropical paradise.

I call it a shithole.

[Godstud]

I call it a shithole.

Yes, well I imagine you have to tell yourself that as you sit in your trailerpark and rub tootsies with your cousin, while you stare at your Welfare check, to make yourself feel good.

It certainly looks like a terrible place.







It's no "Georgia".

[Hindsite]

Yes, well I imagine you have to tell yourself that as you sit in your trailerpark and rub tootsies with your cousin, while you stare at your Welfare check, to make yourself feel good.

I own two homes and two cars that are completely paid off. One home is a two-story 4 bedroom, 2 bath and the other that we live in now is a one story brick, 4 bedroom, 2 bath just outside Ft. Gordon. My wife was having knee problems that made it difficult for her to climb the stairs in the first house. One of my sons is renting that house now for just the amount it cost me for insurance and taxes, while he and his wife save for the home of their dreams.

I have no need for a welfare check, since my wife and I receive over $60,000 in retirement pay which makes for a comfortable living here in Georgia.

[Godstud]

Sure... keep telling yourself as you call places you've never been to "shit-holes"(places which get a phenomenal amount of tourism because they aren't), while you live in Squalor, Georgia, and pick your banjo with your inbred relatives.

[Hindsite]

:lol: Sure... keep telling yourself as you call places you've never been to "shit-holes"(places which get a phenomenal amount of tourism because they aren't), while you live in Squalor, Georgia, and pick your banjo with your inbred relatives.

Don't get angry. I was just messing with you. I am sure you would not retire there instead of in Canada if you did not like it. I might even like it too, as long as I did not have to use public toilets too often.

[Godstud]

You know I'm messing with you, right?
I am sure you live in a very nice place. I simply resent people who call places shit-holes since most places are actually pretty nice, and even some of those shit-holes can be amazing places, with wonderful people.

I've yet to visit ANY shit-hole... unless you count East Hastings Street in Vancouver, BC, Canada.

Make a trip to Thailand some day and we can make Mint Juleps and discuss politics, while getting a foot massage on a sunny beach.

[Hindsite]

:lol: You know I'm messing with you, right?

No, I figure you hate me because I support Trump.

Make a trip to Thailand some day and we can make Mint Juleps and discuss politics, while getting a foot massage on a sunny beach.

That sound good, but it probably will not happen, since my wife uses a walker and a wheelchair to get around and I even though I get around fine, I turn 75 years old in March.

[Drlee]

Trump can not end the shut down with out a bill. As far as I'm aware Congress hasn't sent him a bill. Congress can end the shut down any time it wants even without Trump's cooperation.

1. The republican house passed a bill and sent it to the senate.

2. Mich McConnell (R) the Senate Majority Leader refused to put the bill to a vote because Trump said he would not sign it.

3. The new Democratic house passed a bill just like the republican bill.

4. Republican Senate Leader McConnell refused to put the bill up for a vote ostensibly because he did not have the votes to pass it.

5. Trump has doubled down on not signing any bill sent to him without funding for the wall.

Fact: The wall is unpopular with Americans.

Fact: The house both under republican and democrat control has passed the same funding bill which was acceptable to both parties and passed that way.

Fact: McConnell only has to say the word and the budget will go to a vote in the Senate. Then and only then will we see a vote. So for now it is ALL REPUBLICAN refusing to put the matter to the vote.

CONJECTURE: McConnell does not have the votes.

[Hindsite]

San Diego’s KUSI News reported Thursday that CNN asked them for a local news view on the border wall. When KUSI informed CNN that border patrol agents have uniformly told the station that the wall works, CNN lost interest.

CNN called the KUSI Newsroom asking if one of our reporters could give them a local view of the debate surrounding the border wall and government shutdown…

We believe CNN declined a report from KUSI because we informed them that most Border Patrol Agents we have spoken to told us the barrier does in fact work.

[jimjam]

That sound good, but it probably will not happen, since my wife uses a walker and a wheelchair to get around and I even though I get around fine, I turn 75 years old in March

Sorry to hear about your wife. The aging process is not a bed of roses, is it. I will be 75 in November and managed to jog 2 miles today.

You should have known Trump did not mean that.

Who knows WTF he means when he blabs off. I doubt he knows. But that's a different problem. It doesn't matter what he means. He blabbed it on national media and, sorry, it's his shut down. Words once spoken cannot be taken back. This ain't grammar school. When a situation turns out like shit you can't say, "Just kidding." He stupidly closed out his options after Nancy pushed his rather obvious buttons.

[jimjam]

Donald is obviously a fruit cake and his highly praised "negotiating skills" appear to not exist outside of the limited environment of a family business. I can live with this. What I cannot live with is his myopic short term agenda and incompetence. He cannot even keep the government running let alone engage in any sort of visionary thinking unless it is a vision of how to make billionaires and corporations richer at the expense of us losers. I wonder if he has to empty his own waste paper basket these days …. or …. does he know how to?

[Hindsite]

Donald is obviously a fruit cake and his highly praised "negotiating skills" appear to not exist outside of the limited environment of a family business. I can live with this. What I cannot live with is his myopic short term agenda and incompetence. He cannot even keep the government running let alone engage in any sort of visionary thinking unless it is a vision of how to make billionaires and corporations richer at the expense of us losers. I wonder if he has to empty his own waste paper basket these days …. or …. does he know how to?

I hope Pelosi and Schumer do not have the same opinion of Trump that you do because they may never come to their senses and agree to compromise.

[Drlee]

San Diego’s KUSI News reported Thursday that CNN asked them for a local news view on the border wall. When KUSI informed CNN that border patrol agents have uniformly told the station that the wall works, CNN lost interest.

CNN called the KUSI Newsroom asking if one of our reporters could give them a local view of the debate surrounding the border wall and government shutdown…

We believe CNN declined a report from KUSI because we informed them that most Border Patrol Agents we have spoken to told us the barrier does in fact work.

Asking local border patrol agents if they want the wall is just stupid. It is like asking a young private if he wants a new tank.

But does "the border patrol" want the wall?

Not really. They are afraid to take on Trump who is dangerous when angry.

The National Border Patrol Council has been an ardent supporter of President Donald Trump’s proposal to build a wall along the southwest border, going so far as to back a government shutdown in a play to get lawmakers to fund the project.

But the council, which represents non-supervisory Border Patrol agents, hasn’t always taken such a favorable position on the wall.

In a page recently deleted from its website, the union said it “disagrees with wasting taxpayer money on building fences and walls along the border as a means of curtailing illegal entry into the United States.”

The statement, posted in 2012 under the NBPC’s media FAQ page, was deleted on or after Jan. 4, according to a VICE Motherboard review of Wayback Machine archives. It describes border barriers as only a “speed bump” that don’t solve the problem of people entering the country via legal means and staying past the date they are required to leave, commonly known as visa overstays.

“People who want to come to the United States to obtain employment will continue to go over, under, and around the walls and fences that are constructed,” the NBPC said.

WASHINGTON — President Trump has called for a wall along the border with Mexico to stop undocumented immigrants and drugs from entering the United States. But Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

The documents show that the Border Patrol identified what it called 902 “capability gaps,” or vulnerabilities, on the Southwest border. The word “wall” was suggested as a possible solution for just three of those gaps.



Agents mentioned a “fence” or “fencing” as a possible solution 34 times — less than 4 percent of the 902 vulnerabilities identified, the report found.