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By One Degree
#14976080
Drlee wrote:The profoundly stupid people who support this so-called wall are not even aware of what it would take to build it. The Federal government does not even own the property upon which much of the wall would be built. Every state, rancher or owner would have to be individually sued to even acquire the right to build there. The contracts would have to be let. Workers would have to be hired and comply with state and local regulations. The environmental impact studies required by law would have to be completed. They have not even been begun at this point.

In other words. This "wall" is a complete joke and only important to people who are not smart enough to see the folly in even wanting it.


Based on that thinking, the interstate highway system never would have been built. You are repeating points already discussed.
User avatar
By Stormsmith
#14976083
@Drlee

I can imagine, if I owned a regular home on a 4-to-acre lot there would be an enormous loss in value if ì looked out onto a 20' steel fence :eh:
User avatar
By One Degree
#14976092
Stormsmith wrote:@Drlee

I can imagine, if I owned a regular home on a 4-to-acre lot there would be an enormous loss in value if ì looked out onto a 20' steel fence :eh:


I would think it would increase the value. Since when does a security fence reduce value?
User avatar
By Drlee
#14976100
I would think it would increase the value. Since when does a security fence reduce value?


:lol: :lol:
User avatar
By Godstud
#14976116
I can see that @One Degree has never owned property, by this statement.
#14976122
He's grovelling on the wall. Now just asking for 2.5 billion, which of course won't be enough. Where's the screaming from Trump supporters? Go on, denounce him as a 'traitor'!
User avatar
By Drlee
#14976129
And Trump is threatening to close the border. His bitch, Lindsey Graham, is supporting him. I used to think Graham had some moral courage. No longer. He is just terrified that Trump might tweet about him.

Trump doesn't even know what that means, "close the border". I wonder what his dupes would think if he did. It would:

Stop trade with our largest trading partner.

Devastate the economies of Arizona, Texas and New Mexico; all bright red states.

Start a global recession.

Bankrupt a great many American farmers.

Drive the price of Oil into the ozone.

Drive the price of food into the ozone.

Seriously damage the US Auto industry not only because that is where many American cars are made but because Mexican parts are necessary to assemble cars made here.

And, of course, cut off US exports overland to Central and South America as well as disrupt tourism into the US.

But Lindsey Graham wants the wall too. So shut the border Mr. Trump. I fucking dare you to. Once the American people find out what that has cost them only the deeply stupid people who support you now will stick with you. That is until they lose their job at the feed store because the farmers are broke.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#14976130
Drlee wrote:And Trump is threatening to close the border. His bitch, Lindsey Graham, is supporting him. I used to think Graham had some moral courage. No longer. He is just terrified that Trump might tweet about him.

Trump doesn't even know what that means, "close the border". I wonder what his dupes would think if he did. It would:

Stop trade with our largest trading partner.

Devastate the economies of Arizona, Texas and New Mexico; all bright red states.

Start a global recession.

Bankrupt a great many American farmers.

Drive the price of Oil into the ozone.

Drive the price of food into the ozone.

Seriously damage the US Auto industry not only because that is where many American cars are made but because Mexican parts are necessary to assemble cars made here.

And, of course, cut off US exports overland to Central and South America as well as disrupt tourism into the US.

But Lindsey Graham wants the wall too. So shut the border Mr. Trump. I fucking dare you to. Once the American people find out what that has cost them only the deeply stupid people who support you now will stick with you. That is until they lose their job at the feed store because the farmers are broke.


This is the greatest deal maker. He has cornered himself into the weakest possible position. Opened trade war and now taunting Democrats after he claimed guilt for the situation while being investigated by his own FBI. Basically Pelosi, Xi Jipin and Muller have him by the balls. At this point Pelosi and Xi Jipin can let these matter escalate as Trump will suffer far more than either of the other two. On the otherhand, russia (and who are we kidding, also Putin) probably have a picture of Trump's tiny tiny "manhood". We are fucked.
#14976134
Drlee wrote:Stop trade with our largest trading partner.

I think he's talking about moving people across the border, rather than goods. That would destroy Mexico's tourism economy and help to prevent the flow of illegal aliens into the US.

Drlee wrote:Devastate the economies of Arizona, Texas and New Mexico; all bright red states.

Arizona just elected a hapless dingbat Democrat as Senator. New Mexico is pretty much a blue state. Texas will do just fine. The oil patch is going gangbusters.

Drlee wrote:Start a global recession.

That's already in the works. It has more to do with the Fed and tariffs on China.

Drlee wrote:Bankrupt a great many American farmers.

Mexico is not the main export market for US farm goods, but Trump is not talking about blocking exports.

Drlee wrote:Drive the price of Oil into the ozone.

How? Oil prices are falling, as there is an oversupply. The US doesn't import as much as it used to.

Drlee wrote:Drive the price of food into the ozone.

Let's see. American farmers destroyed, and the price of food going into the ozone. See a problem with that rationale? At best, you can make an argument that out-of-season vegetables could be more expensive, but we get a lot from South American countries like Chile which would be unaffected.

Drlee wrote:Seriously damage the US Auto industry not only because that is where many American cars are made but because Mexican parts are necessary to assemble cars made here.

American car makers are paring down to trucks and SUVs. We'll see Mustangs and Corvettes, but the days of the American sedan appear to be over. Companies making cars in the US should start to see the political risk of sourcing from Mexico and relocate their supply chains elsewhere.

Drlee wrote:And, of course, cut off US exports overland to Central and South America as well as disrupt tourism into the US.

There isn't nearly as much tourism into the US as from the US.

Drlee wrote:So shut the border Mr. Trump. I fucking dare you to.

Yes. Trump! Listen to Drlee this time!

Drlee wrote:That is until they lose their job at the feed store because the farmers are broke.

Yeah, because they won't be able to sell their food at sky high prices...somehow... :roll:

XogGyux wrote:Basically Pelosi, Xi Jipin and Muller have him by the balls.

China is the largest export economy in the world, and the US is its biggest customer. Xi Jinping does not have Trump by the balls by a long shot. Look at what has happened to Chinese equities since this trade spat began. China has completely stopped buying US soybeans; yet, US soybean prices are up $1 to $9 a bushel since summer time. It's hard to make boycotting fungible commodities an issue unless you depend on the currency of the buyer. China took action, and the effect was absolutely nil. We don't depend on Renminbi. Mueller still has nothing. Pelosi is siding against red state America and working class people who want higher wages and giving Trump something to run against.

XogGyux wrote:At this point Pelosi and Xi Jipin can let these matter escalate as Trump will suffer far more than either of the other two.

Sweet dreams...
User avatar
By XogGyux
#14976140
blackjack21 wrote:China is the largest export economy in the world, and the US is its biggest customer. Xi Jinping does not have Trump by the balls by a long shot. Look at what has happened to Chinese equities since this trade spat began. China has completely stopped buying US soybeans; yet, US soybean prices are up $1 to $9 a bushel since summer time. It's hard to make boycotting fungible commodities an issue unless you depend on the currency of the buyer. China took action, and the effect was absolutely nil. We don't depend on Renminbi. Mueller still has nothing. Pelosi is siding against red state America and working class people who want higher wages and giving Trump something to run against.

ROFL. Keep dreaming. You are one of those people blind to everything. You are demonstrably wrong.
There was a long time ago when everyone was like "oh noo Flyn is innocent they just want to harm trump" and trump was like "flyn is a good guy" BOOM proven wrong, even judge is like "wooo traison"
then is manafort... "wait for me mr trump" and bahm another guilty plea. Then it is pappadopapplalous, and boom another guilty asshole. THen is cohen "no there is nothing wrong to see here, no porn star, no payments, shu shu move away" and bam! porn star comes out, tells us about his tiny mushroom dick and proven wrong again. Then Mr "I sold my soul to the devil" rudy giuliani is like "nothing to see here, no payments" and then he is like "well we funneled the payments because if it came out it would have been bad" then no collusion, well a little bit of collusion but nobody from the campain, and then well, a lot of people from the campain colluded but not trump, and now he is getting ready to flip it again by trying to argue it is no crime.
You goal post keeps moving. And honestly. does not matter, this is ultimately a politic fight, and there is no way in hell trump can keep more than his base for next election. He already got a nice preview of what it is to come in 2018, and democrats will make his life pain with supoena power.. If this idiot was this much erratic with multiple experienced people around him to control him and while the rusian investigation was still cold, imagine now that the fire is turned up to 15!
The guy is a maniac and political enemies can take advantage of this. Under normal circumstances you would be right, a trade war is just as bad for china as it is for us, but with a chaotic president that is hungry for a political win, the enemy can sense that and exploit it. Shitty trade agreement can easily be disguised as a "big win" for trump when in reality it is not so. Lets watch and see.... He will grow increasily more erratic and desperate for "big win" will grab whatever deal is on the table and try to disguise it to his retarded base as some kind of unicorn, and his retarded base.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14976145
I don't know ….. by Donald's standards I am just a stupid loser but …. it looks like Don the great deal maker has positioned himself into a nice little box. A box with no exit. He closed out most of his options during the now infamous Trump/Pelosi/Schumer episode when he agreed to accept the "mantle" of a shutdown after Nancy deftly got him right in the testicles with her "Trump Shutdown" comment :lol: .

Then he closed out any options he may have had left by cow towing to the Fox/Coulter threat to his 38% "base".

So he now owns the shutdown with Nancy & Co. waiting in the wings. His chances of adding billions and billions to the Trump Deficit for a stupid wall are now effectively zero.

What now? A shutdown that never ends? Oh that'll play real well with his non base. His tweets are increasing exponentially and making less and less sense. He appears to be freaking out.

And BTW is this stupid wall issue America's biggest and only problem? Seems to me Donald should try to refine his multi tasking skills and drop this mentally ill obsession for awhile.
By Hindsite
#14976146
jimjam wrote:I don't know ….. by Donald's standards I am just a stupid loser but …. it looks like Don the great deal maker has positioned himself into a nice little box. A box with no exit. He closed out most of his options during the now infamous Trump/Pelosi/Schumer episode when he agreed to accept the "mantle" of a shutdown after Nancy deftly got him right in the testicles with her "Trump Shutdown" comment :lol: .

Then he closed out any options he may have had left by cow towing to the Fox/Coulter threat to his 38% "base".

So he now owns the shutdown with Nancy & Co. waiting in the wings. His chances of adding billions and billions to the Trump Deficit for a stupid wall are now effectively zero.

What now? A shutdown that never ends? Oh that'll play real well with his non base. His tweets are increasing exponentially and making less and less sense. He appears to be freaking out.

And BTW is this stupid wall issue America's biggest and only problem? Seems to me Donald should try to refine his multi tasking skills and drop this mentally ill obsession for awhile.

I believe you under estimating the Trump of God.
HalleluYah
#14976159
XogGyux wrote:There was a long time ago when everyone was like "oh noo Flyn is innocent they just want to harm trump" and trump was like "flyn is a good guy" BOOM proven wrong, even judge is like "wooo traison"

Yes. Then, he had to walk back his comments, because it doesn't make sense to sell your country out and commit treason with one of your country's military allies, a partner in the world's most advanced fighter plane, and a NATO ally. So, "whoops your honor." Judges need to stick to the law, because the second they get into politics they look like complete dipshits.

XogGyux wrote:then is manafort... "wait for me mr trump" and bahm another guilty plea.

Guilty of things in 2012 that have nothing to do with Trump's campaign--and the FBI already knew everything, but Manafort had an amnesty agreement with them, but not with the independent counsel.

XogGyux wrote:Then it is pappadopapplalous, and boom another guilty asshole.

Making false statements to the FBI--again, not colluding with the government of Russia. :roll:

XogGyux wrote:THen is cohen "no there is nothing wrong to see here, no porn star, no payments, shu shu move away" and bam! porn star comes out, tells us about his tiny mushroom dick and proven wrong again.

His legal problems are his own. Mueller just tried pulling a cheap stunt to see if it would get Trump supporters to abandon Trump. The problem with these dipshits is that they don't understand that the reason we like Trump is because we hate the establishment. Mueller's latest bullshit is having a naked selfie of someone. Nobody cares. If we have to accept "gay marriage" it's time to start accepting heterosexuality too.

XogGyux wrote:You goal post keeps moving.

I never set up any goal posts. I said the whole thing was politically motivated from the inception, AND that Trump's mistake was trying to get along with establishment types.

XogGyux wrote:And honestly. does not matter, this is ultimately a politic fight,

Well, that's all that it is, which is why nobody takes these charges seriously. You are one of those people who has no idea why people like Trump. The establishment hates the American people. They just return that sentiment. Trump as president is nothing more than the American people giving Washington an unwelcome enema. It has nothing to do with people loving Trump. It has to do with love of Trump trashing the establishment.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14976213
It is hilarious watching ‘liberals’ demand we support the interests of ‘global corporations’ against the ‘evil populist’. Their minds are so screwed up, they have no idea who they are supporting or why. They just mimic whatever the DNC says. They are oblivious to the contradiction of their idealism being supplied by the interests of corporations. Why they don’t stop and think about why their idealism perfectly matches corporate interests is a depressing sign of human ignorance.
By Rugoz
#14976226
Meanwhile in the real world:

Trump business empire shuns E-Verify, hires illegal immigrants

Just five of the 565 companies in President Trump’s business empire are signed up to use E-Verify, the government’s best tool to weed illegal immigrants out of the workforce, according to a Washington Times analysis that suggests the president could personally be doing more on that front.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... hiring-il/

Could the President Mandate E-Verify?

There are many changes that could be made to the immigration laws that would enable the United States to gain control over its illegal population. Of all of the proposals, however, E-Verify would be the most effective at curbing illegal entries and limiting nonimmigrant overstays. And the president could likely make it mandatory through executive action.


https://cis.org/Arthur/Could-President-Mandate-EVerify
#14976229
I have nothing against e-verify other than it is not necessary if you don’t allow illegals in in the first place. Would you suggest e-verify as the best method of capturing escaped prisoners, or does it make more sense to prioritize them not escaping? We must first control entry before the other methods accomplish much. We already know there are millions of illegals in the US and we even know who most of them are. There are too many of them to apprehend them all without stopping more from coming in first.
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By Drlee
#14976246
I have nothing against e-verify other than it is not necessary if you don’t allow illegals in in the first place.


"Nothing against"? You are one soft-on-illegal-immigration hombre. Just like the rest of the Trump drones. Want proof of your softness on illegal immigration? Wait one minute while I type.

Would you suggest e-verify as the best method of capturing escaped prisoners, or does it make more sense to prioritize them not escaping?


This is a stupid analogy. Suprised? I'm not. People don't come here for the weather. They come here for the jobs.

We must first control entry before the other methods accomplish much.


Backward like most Trump followers. If people know they can't work here or access services they will not leave home. Duh.

We already know there are millions of illegals in the US and we even know who most of them are.



Wrong. We could know but we are not really looking. We even have mechanisms in place for them to pay taxes and hence to work more or less legally. Change that and they go home.
There are too many of them to apprehend them all without stopping more from coming in first.


And here is why you are soft on immigration. You somehow have it in your mind that we need the slave laborers so lets not go after them. We could send them packing in months with workplace enforcement. The republicans had the whole government. They could have passed making e-verify mandatory by voice vote and required every employer to e-verify all current employees in six months.

But what of stopping them from coming? Two things you do NOT know and it is abundantly obvious.

Vastly more illegal aliens come to this country on visas and overstay than come across the southern border. In fact, illegal immigration from Mexico has been falling (along with illegal immigration in general) for over a decade. The Trump administration is doing nothing about that. Nothing. What most illegal aliens hear from CPB when they enter the country is a smile and "welcome to the USA. Enjoy your visit."

1.8 million illegal aliens are using fake Social security numbers and the Trump administration is doing nothing about it though it would be easy to find them. We know where they work.

Here is what else you don't know. Over 60% of illegal aliens have been in the US for over a decade. Half have children who cannot be deported as the are , like it or not, citizens. 30% of them own homes. But we could kick them out. I am of the opinion that the constitution is clear that the children of people who enter illegally are not necessarily citizens just because they were born here and could be deported. The supreme court agreed with me about 100 years ago.

Here is a plan I know you and Hindsite will absolutely love and it is cheap and legal.

So suppose we gave Trump is five billion dollars but required he use that on workplace enforcement. Call it "the manpower wall". How many agents would that be? Well it would be well over 20,000 full time and long haul employees. So suppose we do this. Here is what happens.

We hire and train those folks to be ICE agents. We require e-verify on all US employees and give a full year to complete it. After that, having hired and trained these agents, we send these agents into the states. Call it 400 of them per state. They start with the biggest employers in the state and those most likely to employ illegals, like hotels, restaurants and farmers. When they find an illegal they take him/her into custody and move them to camps near the border to await deportation hearings. (If they have kids they inform the state authorities to take them into custody.) (We inform the local animal shelters to take their pets into custody also so they don't starve at these abandoned homes and apartments.) At the camps we have immigration judges standing by to rule on keeping them in custody. If they fight deportation we put ankle monitors on them and release them pending their final hearings. This gives them the opportunity to lawyer up and fight deportation. While wearing the bracelet they are not permitted to work or partake of any government benefits.

While we are doing this we arrest and charge any employer who has not complied with e-verity. Take them to federal jail and make them post bond. We strengthen the law to take the Federal Tax ID (EIN) from anyone who has multiple offenses. This shuts down the business. We require everify for independent contractors working over 5 days.

See how easy this would be? No wall. No ecological disaster. Just a smooth transition into putting 4% of the workforce out of work in six months. What could possibly go wrong with that?

And look how good this would be for the poor in American. They would be highly sought after employees. Wages for them would rise dramatically. Why in Arizona, after we mandated e-verify we saw almost 100,000 workers leave the state to move to where e-verify was not required. We saw the minimum wage almost double at the same time to $11.00 an hour. Employers did not like it much. Landlords were forced to sell some apartments at fire-sale prices but hey. Much fewer illegals. Imagine where they would go if there were no states for roughly 10 million illegal residents to work in. SO lets do this Mr. Trump. Do it right now before the first of the year. Call your majority back into session and do it. Because president Trump, if you did this do you know what would happen? No shit. Mexico would build the wall. Build it on their own land. And pay for it. Just to keep all these American wetbacks from invading their country.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14976255
@Drlee , saying I am not aware of things that have been argued repeatedly is silly.
Your plan of rounding up 1.8 million people, putting them in camps, having hearings, and then releasing them with ankle bracelets is about the silliest solution I have heard. You and other liberals would go nuts if any such thing was attempted anyway. There should be no hearing for illegals. Simply return them to their home country. Change our silly laws and enforce them. The wall is just one part of enforcement.
User avatar
By Drlee
#14976279
There should be no hearing for illegals.


Tell me what the text of the constitutional amendment eliminating due process would be?

Your plan of rounding up 1.8 million people, putting them in camps, having hearings, and then releasing them with ankle bracelets is about the silliest solution I have heard.


Why? You are the one who is terrified by them. You are the one who maintains that they are staining our society and changing it for the worst. Now you are against doing something real about illegal immigration that is vastly more effective than the wall. And why are you against it? Your words:

You and other liberals would go nuts if any such thing was attempted anyway.


Setting aside your idiotic notion that I am a "liberal" you are opposed to real enforcement, why? Because "liberals would go nuts". You are right. They would. (I wouldn't. It is my plan after all.) But not only liberals would go nuts. Over 70% of the voting public would go nuts. Industry would go nuts. The travel and hospitality industry would shut down. Daycare would almost cease. North of 8 million people put out of work overnight with no benefits.

But you and your so-called conservative fellow travelers like Hindsite simply do not have the balls to do what you are whining endlessly about. That is, stopping illegal immigration. I have already proved that the wall won't do it. So man up. Stop being a wimp. You want to get rid of illegals in your country then take the bullet. Stop going after the few thousand who cross the border illegally and go after the millions already here. They are the ones you have endlessly complained about polluting our culture. (Don't deny it. I could post many quotes proving it but will not because everyone here has already read them.)

Typical wimp so-called conservatives. They couldn't muster a ball among them in a room full of 50 men. Pussies.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14976305
Tell me what the text of the constitutional amendment eliminating due process would be?

The view ‘due process’ and the ‘constitution’ applies to anyone except US legal residents is ridiculous.


Why? You are the one who is terrified by them. You are the one who maintains that they are staining our society and changing it for the worst. Now you are against doing something real about illegal immigration that is vastly more effective than the wall. And why are you against it? Your words:

Please refer me to any post where I said any such thing about either of these accusations. Why must liberals always invent positions to argue against? My guess is it is the only way they can apply their memorized official responses. :)


Setting aside your idiotic notion that I am a "liberal" you are opposed to real enforcement, why? Because "liberals would go nuts". You are right. They would. (I wouldn't. It is my plan after all.) But not only liberals would go nuts. Over 70% of the voting public would go nuts. Industry would go nuts. The travel and hospitality industry would shut down. Daycare would almost cease. North of 8 million people put out of work overnight with no benefits.

Again, you are inventing arguments I never made.
But you and your so-called conservative fellow travelers like Hindsite simply do not have the balls to do what you are whining endlessly about. That is, stopping illegal immigration. I have already proved that the wall won't do it. So man up. Stop being a wimp. You want to get rid of illegals in your country then take the bullet. Stop going after the few thousand who cross the border illegally and go after the millions already here. They are the ones you have endlessly complained about polluting our culture. (Don't deny it. I could post many quotes proving it but will not because everyone here has already read them.)

Again, please address what I actually say. I never said I was against other measures.
Typical wimp so-called conservatives. They couldn't muster a ball among them in a room full of 50 men. Pussies.

You think this comment demonstrates superior thought, understanding, and attempt at honest debate? This is the type of thing ‘internet tough guys’ say that are scared shitless to say it to anyone’s face.
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