[Pants-of-dog]

Keep holding the election would mean another surge of the epidemic.

If that is his point, then he is contradicting his earlier position about the virus, and he is also criticising one of the only methods that will allow voting and keep the epidemic from worsening.

[XogGyux]

Keep holding the election would mean another surge of the epidemic.

Although my perspective is different from Trump's: What I think is that no one can expect everybody voting in mail, and there will be some gathering which inevitably cause the infections to spread.

As I said in previous post, anti-Trumpers should probably prepare for this and ensure Pelosi takes over in case it happens.

P.S. When I say "one has a point", it means some point(s) put out by the said person is what I agree. However, it does not necessarily mean I agree with the person's main point or real intentions. I say this because I am fully aware that politics discussion participants tend to be easily triggered when someone expresses views in support of someone they hate.

No. He doesn't get to sabotage our country's health for his political benefit. Imagine that... ignore the pandemic for 10 months and then on November show up and say... Oops, too bad we have a pandemic, no election I'll be your president from now on. Seriously? That is what it takes to destroy democracy?

On another topic:
Today Trump had another conference. WOW, delusional personality. My friend Mr Cain died today but they are telling me that the economy will be great next year... what an out of touch idiot.
Then rambling about how democrats don't want to play unemployed people.... Dude... democrats send a bill to the senate what 2 months ago? Meanwhile, Republicans are fighting amongst themselves.
And to think that actual people believe this kind of nonsense is really depressing.

[Doug64]

20th Amendment of the US Constitution:

The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

[XogGyux]

These people might be hawkish, Bush loving assholes. But they sure know how to make interesting adds

So hilarious yet so sad.

[Julian658]

These people might be hawkish, Bush loving assholes. But they sure know how to make interesting adds

So hilarious yet so sad.

The Dems get it wrong each time.
This ad is for the converts.
This is like the Pope preaching to the choir at Saint Peters.

Otherwise, it is funny.

All the video of rioting and looting makes a great ad for the Republicans and they are free, no actors needed. And the looting and violence ads are effective on those that are on the fence.

[XogGyux]

How about you shut up and let the rest of us enjoy it in peace? We already established you are a troll, geez.
Maybe the last few months we get to enjoy anything before this idiot tries to make this country a dictatorship my messing with the election and we end up killing each other.

[Julian658]

How about you shut up and let the rest of us enjoy it in peace? We already established you are a troll, geez.
Maybe the last few months we get to enjoy anything before this idiot tries to make this country a dictatorship my messing with the election and we end up killing each other.

Screw yourself!
Debussy was better than Ludwig

[XogGyux]

Screw yourself!
Debussy was better than Ludwig

Rofl, not even close. Beethoven reigns supreme, that is unless we are only talking about piano (not orchestra and/or other instruments), and in such case Chopin is the man.
Tchaikovsky is a close second to Beethoven, the ballets are a masterpiece. Piano concerto #1 is my favorite piece of all time.

Unmatched.

[Tainari88]

Rofl, not even close. Beethoven reigns supreme, that is unless we are only talking about piano (not orchestra and/or other instruments), and in such case Chopin is the man.
Tchaikovsky is a close second to Beethoven, the ballets are a masterpiece. Piano concerto #1 is my favorite piece of all time.

Unmatched.

I agree with you 100%.

[Drlee]

And Mark Knopfler is the greatest guitar player of all time. (And supports Biden I'll bet because Knopfler is more intelligent than a banana.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysfy1te2IUg

[Tainari88]

It's simple: http://duckduckgo.com instead of http://google.com. Google tracks you, records your searches, develops a profile on you and sells it to advertisers.

You had faith in me. I appreciate that. I am not into technology BJ. But once I learn something well it sticks with me and I do it right. I like this duckduck thing. I do.


Many of them are anarchists, but others are firmly on the political left. These are not right wing protests.

I know they are not. BJ, Trump is threatening to postpone the election. He is falling into the fascist behavior camp. I don't know about you sometimes BJ.


Yes, there is talk of the rioters going to suburbs and trying to terrorize suburban populations. I think this is already backfiring in a big way.

BJ, el fuego viene. It is inevitable.

No. Not at all. My mothers family is Irish (even though my grandfather was from the UK), and they believe the Democratic party is "good" and the Republican party is "bad." When my grandmother was alive, my sisters and I would fill out her ballot for her, reading the state initiatives, etc. We were Republicans, and so she always checked to make sure we weren't cheating--we never did. The interesting thing was that on the candidates, she voted a straight Democratic ticket. On the initiatives, however, she voted to the right of Ronald Reagan. I think there are a lot of people who adopt this sort of dyed-in-the-wool mentality. To me, they are ultimately just corporations, but yes they do have a history.

Your family life was extremely different than mine BJ. Our family dinners and conversations were extremely lively and full of debate and jokes and just fun. I would say never a dull moment. Ever. Fiery and passionate and full of fun. My parents never voted conventional Democrat or Republican. Both were far left. My mother was an international socialist. My father was even farther left but with a very unique almost spiritual perspective. He was also into economics and really did not like conservative thought. My father thought it the worst political thought and the worst for the underclass and working class. He also did not like lumpen proletariats. My mother never identified ever with the bourgeoisie. Both of them were very consistent readers and writers, but my father thought my mother the most brilliant woman he had ever met in the world in his life. He told me that once, "Your mother is super intelligent. I could not come close to her in many ways. I am just a lot more unconventional." They were fiery and strong willed. Both of them. They had fiery fights. Never violent. Just passionate. My mother cooked well and beautifully , my father was a terrible cook. Hee hee. My father was professional level dancer, my mother preferred to listen to music. My father had sloppy handwriting and was extremely talented and creative painting BJ. My mother would sketch and draw and it was almost like seeing a professional commercial style of art. My father was raw and refined both talent in drawing and painting. He studied it formerly in NYC. They were both passionate and they would switch back and forth fighting and arguing in Spanish and then English and my mother would go back and forth....my father would end the argument in Spanish....and he would go off and speak Japanese in soft tones, and come back in English and apologize. It was quite spectacularly dramatic. I remember that vividly. No one in my house gave a rat's ass about the Democrats or the Republicans. For them? They both sucked. More likely they were to pay attention to a some work by an anarchist or a piece of literature about fascist thought processes that they would study to figure out why the fascists loved to be authoritarians than waste time on Republican or Democrat initiatives.



Indeed. However, there is also a major failure of citizenship on the part of many voters.
Yes BJ that is true.


Capitalism is about maintaining rigid class structures. It does have the characteristic of the cynical golden rule--he who has the gold makes the rules.

I like Richard Wolff's takes on capitalist functions and the way to cope with the flaws of the system. I like very brilliant men like him who make something complex and well researched and then place it in layman's term and distill it into a working concept that is very functional. He is French and German in thought processes and he is my favorite.


It's not about getting rid of foreign elements as such. It's about preventing the establishment from undercutting wages and pitting immigrants against the working class. It's also about maintaining social cohesion.

The establishment is part of capitalism. They will always be pitting immigrants and the working class. They are the same class and have a natural affinity but they have to be played against each other to benefit capitalist, globalist interests. Social cohesion can never be maintained BJ while capitalism has to continue. There are different types of capitalism and different types of socialism. Capitalism is about different forms of control and exploitation and different types of socialism are how the government intervenes in market systems or outright appropriates them. And changes who is in control. It is that stripped at times. That is a weighty subject fit for another debate thread on its own eh? Soon my time on this forum will be over. Let us see how many things can be covered and I am sure other people will be picking up the slack.

"Believe in class" becomes a very loaded term. For me, it's a positive analysis and not a normative analysis. I'm not making a value judgement that classes are good or bad. Rather that they exist, and ignoring them doesn't make them go away. Fighting them doesn't typically do it either.

International socialism and socialism doesn't ignore class. You have a long way to go to understand it well still BJ. But it is like studying African American history and Latin American history, Indian history? If you think it is not worth dealing with? You won't get to understand it. That is it. You don't put in the time you don't understand it. I was reading a book on the origins of fascism and someone on the bus asked me why waste time on such things? They are the 'losers' in the second world war. I answered, "They are human. With a human political philosophy. I study all that human beings do. To think that what happened to them and with them? Will never happen in the USA? It is foolish. Whatever one human society can fall for? Can happen in another society. All it requires is the right circumstances and conditions.


That works in some cases, but not in all. It doesn't typically work for the mentally ill, the addicted, or for people with serious personality disorders. That's often a big chunk of the underclass in any given area.

That is not true BJ. Most of the working class is of sound mind and most people don't have serious personality disorders. In any given human society the vast majority of people are mentally healthy, physically healthy, and emotionally healthy. And the ones who are not? The rest of us have to take care of them BJ. For me, all human life has innate human value. In the end, we are all experiencing life through some form of self-awareness. Drug addicts all need to be dealt with socially. Medically. Emotionally. Alcoholics need their supports. All of us should have support and love and care. In all of our lives. But we also got to be smart about whom we help Blackjack21. A lot of individuals are users and abusers of good people and their generosity of spirit. One has to balance the users and abusers with the ones who are real friends and helpers and our best resources in a crisis. We need to be good at distinguishing who is who in our lives Blackjack21.

Between Trump and Biden? Trump. A lot of people dislike Trump, because of his personality--leaving policy questions a distant second. I do not want the neoliberal/neoconservative types in control. I think what they've done with all these riots, "diversity and inclusion" initiatives, etc. is really all about disrupting people. They prefer war as a first line measure in foreign policy. Right now, they are freaking out because Trump wants to pull US troops out of Germany too.

I think the USA is between a rock and a hard place. Trump is just a symptom of the greater problems within the US society Relampaguito. It won't go away until some kind of balance can be reached. I happen to think something really transformational is going to arrive soon. But Trump is not preferable to anything BJ. Again he is a man with rotten values. In government for me? No es una mejoria. It is not an improvement.


Well, that's a form of respect, but it's not the only kind. There are interesting black conservatives, like Thomas Sowell.

I never liked Thomas Sowell. Black conservatives? The only one I really liked surprisingly was Colin Powell. With his Jamaican American immigrant background. I also liked Booker T. Washington. Kind of conservative. Most of the African American conservative types I found terrible at the analysis of society. Never liked them as people. Bill Cosby's politics I never liked. Never trusted his statements. They sounded conventional and right-wing. He turned out to be a freak, didn't he? Human beings disappoint a lot of people BJ. No matter what race they are. I look for certain humane and good values in someone. The Lumpens exist in all nationalities. I don't like them from any background or group. People who are lumpens never like being cooperative and are predatory and parasitical in thought, behavior, and deed. They refuse to organize for a common goal and are without the necessary will or behavior to become decent working-class people.



Yea, it's just not a passion for me. I think it is interesting. However, I also see it more in "Clash of Civilizations" dynamics, rather than a moral drama. I like Irish history, but I'm not into the "poor me" narrative of so many Irish. The clash between the English and the Irish isn't a lot different from the clash between Romans and Britons. Classical civilization triumphed over Iron Age civilization. Proto-capitalist society triumphed of pre-industrial agrarian society. Yes, there's much more to it--race (even with the same skin color), language and religion play big roles too.

You have a perspective on human history and society very different from mine Relampaguito. I find your view of things often lacking nuance and an understanding of what victory or defeat really represents in this world. I don't know if you would ever like to explore that someday? I might be reaching the end of things anyway.


It might surprise you to know that I've been to Tulum. I find it fascinating that both the Maya and the Egyptians were pyramid builders. Yet, we know so little of why they did it given the amount of work required and their utility. However, all human societies have religion in common.

Religion is very present in human history. As well as language. No one knows who spoke the first human language. That is a deep mystery. Some things are universal human behaviors and others are learned and specific to an ethnic group's ethos or history. People can adapt to almost anything BJ if it is something that is about survival and dependent on survival and that adaptation is essential in all ways. We adapt to what is good and what is bad. But being self-reflective and self awareness is key to understanding why it is necessary. The problems with adaptability is a lack of conscious thought and intent in the adaptational actions. Too many of the lack of consciousness going on.



I do too. I bought a friend of mine a replica of Eduard Manet's Execution of the Emperor Maximilien. We studied art history together when we were college freshmen.
I love the artistic expression in everything Blackjack21. I think my parents at heart were both lovers of art and art creators as well as being science lovers, political philosophy lovers, language lovers, and lovers of creative things. My mother had the most exquisite taste in everything. In her handwriting, her choices yet she always was detached from money, materialism, and possessiveness. I love sensitive, deeply thoughtful, and beautiful aesthetic things and love people who fill their lives up with beauty of the mind. Despite not having money or power. Such people never fail to have fine human values.


Yeah, there really isn't anything you can do about personality disorders. Depressions, manias, anxieties--they can be medicated. Narcissism, borderline personality, anti-social personality disorder, oppositional defiance disorder are very difficult to address. Some have had help with cognitive behavior therapy, but few people realize they have a problem and deal with it.
People respond almost universally to being loved and considered and respected with great reciprocity. I don't know Blackjack21. I have felt such love at moments in life where everything is in harmony with you...where I am extremely at peace with nature, my temporary existence. And my place in it. I have felt such love for another that you feel like you are flying and the joy is boundless and absolute and you are free from all that burdens so many people in the world. Love is of extreme power in this world BJ. My son asked me yesterday a very innocent question as I drove to some errand. He asked me, "How long is the Earth going to be alive Mommy? How many years before it dies and how old is the Earth?" I told him. "I am not exactly sure darling. But the Earth is middle aged sort of like Mommy right now. It has probably another six billion years left and then it is done." He thought about it and asked me--"What happens once it is done?" I replied, "the sun goes nova and the planet along with the solar system is destroyed and dies. But the universe is always renewing itself and a new set of stars and planets are born and develop in an infinite cycle of creative energy Baby Boy." He thought about it and said, "Well, then why are we so afraid of doing what we want to make things better. It is all part of being new isn't it Mommy?" and I said, "yes it is baby. This world is a world of infinite possibilities. Why not believe in making something great all the time while we are here?" He liked my answers. I don't know to this day how such a beautiful thing as a child born of two people reproducing arrives and is suddenly talking to me in some moment in time. It is extremely mysterious to me Blackjack. It is humbling in the most profound way. Some creative dance and a beautiful human is there...when there was NOTHING.



They often make the bravest soldiers too. The backgrounds of people who win the Congressional Medal of Honor or the Victoria Cross is quite interesting.

Human beings under adverse circumstances either become great achievers or great threats. It is all up to their choices and their level of consciousness in life BJ.


I don't see any sort of totalitarian scheme unfolding. He wasn't even able to hold the House in 2018. What he's doing well that's not necessarily a big part of people's daily bread is roiling the establishment with his counter-investigation into the Russiagate hoax.

He is not a politician BJ. He is a product of American culture and American values. That is my take on Trump.


They are difficult people. I think Trump is more of an egotist than a narcissist. Who initiated and passed the First Step Act, but never campaigned on it? Trump or Obama? It was Trump. That's a liberal policy, not a fascist one. Obama was much more eloquent than Trump, but also more of a narcissist. That a loud mouth white guy that says politically incorrect things just to get a rise out of the establishment and its media apparatus is the one to address the gross injustice of long-term sentencing, hurting mostly black Americans, and the first black American president never even broached the topic, or got more funding for black colleges for example... Trump is a difficult personality. No doubt. He's just not a fascist. I often think when people call someone a racist or a fascist, what they really mean is "asshole", but they don't want to say that.

Obama was not a narcissist. Obama was a liberal raised by a white liberal mother and had an identity crisis in many ways. I find Obama a product of the worst of American ideas about what it means to 'change' society. He is one of the most conventional value system of people in modern history. He was not true to anything and tried to do things by not understanding what was absolutely imperative and he was a failure at many things. I only liked two things he did. In terms of his personal life? I found him a decent man. In general. As a politician, I never liked a damn thing he did. His policies sucked. He is and was a lot different in mentality than Trump.

Why do you think that is the case?

When there is a lot of chaos and instability? The establishment tends to make a comeback BJ. If you study the anarchists in-depth? Their greatest weakness is not being able to stabilize and give structure and order to a human society that makes people feel safe, secure, and as if there is control and a sense of the familiar and the predictable. People vastly underestimate how humans really don't like disruptions BJ. that is why changing human beings' bad habits is so hard. A break in routine and replacing what is familiar with something radically different and removing structure to replace it with uncertainty? The neoliberals will win with a highly unpredictable future. That is human nature Relampaguito.


I do too. I think these lockdowns have demonstrated why dictatorial power is to be feared. Arbitrary and capricious is the rule of the day in California as it is in many other states.

The Third world due to its lack of investment in enforcements and taxation and control that is highly organized? Has a lot of personal freedom for people like me. Capricious? Nothing more caprichoso BJ than some economic system who keeps pitting people who are of similar socioeconomic backgrounds against each other and uses emotionally harmful appeals to control the choices made by the masses. It is just externalized what the society has had internally all this time Blackjack.

[Doug64]

Duplicate post, oops!

[Doug64]

I read a news article that reported on the Trump administration's problems with the current polling, mainly two issues--under-reporting Republican voters, and respondents unwilling to admit they support Trump out of fear of backlash. While the the second is a lot harder to measure and probably wrong, at least that there's enough for a substantial difference (or there'd be more undecideds in the polling), the first is easy enough to measure. So I took some of the most recent polls and adjusted them to match the percentages of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents that voted in 2016 (31% R, 34% I, 35% D).

The latest Economist/YouGov poll has Biden leading Trump 49-40, a +9. Adjust to 2016 voting levels, and you get Biden 45.9 to Trump's 42.3, a +3.6.

The latest IBD/TIPP actually widens, from Biden 48 to Trump 41 (+7) to 49.7 to 38.3 (+11.4).

Fox News has Biden 49 Trump 41 (+8), and adjusts to Biden 45.3 to Trump 36.3--a +9 for Biden, but oddly dropping both's total percentages.

[Hindsite]

Murder of black Trump supporter Bernell Trammell spurs call for federal investigation
July 25, 2020

The shooting death of a black Trump supporter in Milwaukee has state Republicans calling for a federal investigation.

Bernell Trammell, 60, a dreadlocked activist known for carrying handmade signs through the streets reading “Vote Donald Trump 2020,” and posting them on his storefront, was gunned down by an unknown assailant on his sidewalk Thursday afternoon, police said.

“Because of Trammell’s well-known political activism and the possibility that his murder could be politically motivated, I respectfully request that United States Attorney Matthew Krueger open an investigation,” said Andrew Hitt, chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, late Friday.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/25/black-tru ... milwaukee/

It appears that the lives of Black supporters of President Trump don't matter to the radical left Democrats and their media.

[Hindsite]

Murder of black Trump supporter Bernell Trammell spurs call for federal investigation
July 25, 2020

The shooting death of a black Trump supporter in Milwaukee has state Republicans calling for a federal investigation.

Bernell Trammell, 60, a dreadlocked activist known for carrying handmade signs through the streets reading “Vote Donald Trump 2020,” and posting them on his storefront, was gunned down by an unknown assailant on his sidewalk Thursday afternoon, police said.

“Because of Trammell’s well-known political activism and the possibility that his murder could be politically motivated, I respectfully request that United States Attorney Matthew Krueger open an investigation,” said Andrew Hitt, chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, late Friday.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/25/black-tru ... milwaukee/

It appears that the lives of Black supporters of President Trump don't matter to the radical left Democrats and their media. Not even Black babies, only Black criminals running from the police matter to them.

[Julian658]

Rofl, not even close. Beethoven reigns supreme, that is unless we are only talking about piano (not orchestra and/or other instruments), and in such case Chopin is the man.
Tchaikovsky is a close second to Beethoven, the ballets are a masterpiece. Piano concerto #1 is my favorite piece of all time.

Claude Debussy is one of my favorites, but you are correct. He does not compare to Beethoven as they are different animals. Debussy is nearly 100% piano and in that regard is more like Chopin or Granados. However, Chopin is extremely romantic and Debussy is impressionism. He used jazz chords and a whole tone scale better than anyone.

I grew up with Tchaikovsky. After Van Cliburn won the piano competition in Moscow in 1958 he became a national hero. and even had a ticker tape parade in NYC. The first piano concerto became a national hit, no different than a pop song. To this day I can only listen to the Van CLiburn version and find that other pianists are lacking. My parents played Tchaikovsky and Chopin 24/7.

As for Beethoven, he copied Mozart's Eine kleine Nachtmusik when he wrote the first movement of the 5th. Nevertheless, that is the best symphony ever written. And he used just a three note motif.

[XogGyux]

Keep it mind, this was not 4 years ago, or last decade or some other long time ago. This was just 3 months ago and Biden was ridiculed by FOX hosts. Forward just 3 months and now Trump himself is not just tweeting doing this, but seriously saying on interviews. Somehow, the "rest of the media" is "fake news" but not FOX... who previously dismissed this as some sort of ridiculous idea yet now they seem to be warming up to it.
FOX is cancer. Seriously some of these billionaires running for president should just get together, buy FOX news and put all those stupid "anchors" to talk about pokemon news for the rest of their contract and then sell the assets to multiple organizations. That would be the most useful political donation of their whole life.

[Julian658]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=89&v=OIts_HmSH7U&feature=emb_logo

Keep it mind, this was not 4 years ago, or last decade or some other long time ago. This was just 3 months ago and Biden was ridiculed by FOX hosts. Forward just 3 months and now Trump himself is not just tweeting doing this, but seriously saying on interviews. Somehow, the "rest of the media" is "fake news" but not FOX... who previously dismissed this as some sort of ridiculous idea yet now they seem to be warming up to it.
FOX is cancer. Seriously some of these billionaires running for president should just get together, buy FOX news and put all those stupid "anchors" to talk about pokemon news for the rest of their contract and then sell the assets to multiple organizations. That would be the most useful political donation of their whole life.

That is a good one!
The election will happen in November. Everything else is BS. I believe Trump comes up with this stuff to troll the media. He is hoping they don't pay attention to something else he may be doing.

We have a very dysfunctional era where tribalism rules. This is not the 1950s where America was undivided. Imagine a classical pianist treated as a national hero in this day and age------not likely.

[XogGyux]

That is a good one!
The election will happen in November. Everything else is BS. I believe Trump comes up with this stuff to troll the media. He is hoping they don't pay attention to something else he may be doing.

We have a very dysfunctional era where tribalism rules. This is not the 1950s where America was undivided. Imagine a classical pianist treated as a national hero in this day and age------not likely.

That is not the point. He is doing shenanigans that will alter the confidence of voters and/or setting up a stage to refuse to leave office. And don't you dare say "no it won't happen" the same way that time after time we say something will happen, you guys it won't and sure enough it does happen. Actually paying attention to the facts and using just a minuscule amount of logic, as it turns out, often leads to reasonable expectations/predictions. Our track record predicting the worse that comes from Trump has been quite accurate so far...

[Drlee]

Trump was stunned yesterday when the funeral was all the news. He absolutely could not stand that three presidents and the speaker of the house went to a funeral that he refused to attend. And called him on his shenanigans. Nevertheless his comments were dangerous enough and he unbalanced enough to cause real concern.

There is absolutely no doubt that he will attempt to disrupt the election. The republican party has already filed 17 (IIR) law suits directly aimed at voter suppression. Trump will try to invalidate mail in ballots. If he looses he will claim the election was stolen by fake ballots. And nobody in the republican party will do squat about it. He has also tried to tank the USPS.

Because of Trump's response to the Trump virus we are now no longer the worlds largest economy. We are third behind the EU and PRC. 30 million Americans are literally on the brink of becoming homeless because of the republican party refusing to act to save them.

The Tea Party fools (the same ones who hired the psychotic HCL "doctor") are holding out for no benefits except for help for business under the preposterous notion that many millions of Americans are refusing to go back to work because they make more on unemployment. This, by itself, ought to take the discussion to 'why is that' but instead they are fine with literally destroying the economy and tens of millions of peoples lives because as a child they were besotted with Ayn Rand. (Evil woman but we can let that go for a moment. Suffice it to say it was the 'big book' they read in 8th grade.)