Amazon's retreat from New York represents a turning point - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14988193
Amazon was ready to impose its will on the largest city in America. The trillion dollar corporation had lined up the support of the mayor of New York City, the governor of New York, and began hiring the fleet of well-compensated lobbyists and strategists necessary to see its vision through.

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It was a typical American story: a corporation with unfathomable wealth getting exactly what it wanted. Amazon would promise 25,000 jobs, many of them supposedly well-paying, and get its gleaming second headquarters, along with a buffet of tax breaks that added up to $3bn, generous subsidies it never really needed but sure wanted.

On Thursday, that all changed. After unrelenting pressure from politicians and an energized grassroots movement that drove these politicians to act, Amazon has said no more. The company is walking away from New York. It’s taking its ball and going home.

This is not just about New York now. Amazon’s retreat may represent a turning point in the way cities do business—or think they can do business in this age of income inequality and precarity. Amazon is one of five corporations that utterly dominate the economy, deciding how we shop, what prices we pay, and what leverage most businesses can or can’t have.

Amazon has eviscerated brick-and-mortar retailers, broken countless unionization efforts, offered its facial recognition technology to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and, for anyone who cares about the written word, tried to crush the publishing industry. Amazon’s surrender is a warning to all Democrats who want to occupy the progressive flank from here on out: you don’t get to support a company like this anymore.

Amazon’s defeat was a direct product of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s election, which was waged in a neighboring district. Younger, progressive residents joined forces with groups like the Democratic Socialists of America to mobilize against Amazon and pressure more moderate Democrats to quickly close ranks against the corporate titan. They did.

The weather has now changed. You don’t get to champion unions out of one side of your mouth and praise a company that loathes them with the other. You don’t get to bemoan economic exploitation and welcome a corporation that thrives on it. You don’t get to say on the stump you support small businesses, fair play, and good government while embracing a company that negotiates in secret, tries to circumvent the democratic process, and undercuts as many competitors as it can.

Amazon is a monopoly, a product of this new and twisted Gilded Age. Like Apple, it flourishes on an exploited, low-wage workforce that is mostly invisible to the average American. Like Google and Facebook, its market share is unrivaled. There is no competing with Amazon. It will swallow you whole before you try.

The national competition for the second Amazon headquarters, or HQ2, in 2017 represented a certain economic nadir for the country. Dozens of municipalities battled against one another in a race to the bottom, offering absurd tax breaks in the hopes that Amazon would deem them worthy. An HQ, unlike a warehouse, needs a more educated workforce, so New York was always a logical destination.

American cities have long, regrettable histories of subsidizing highly profitable corporations and entities that don’t need such breaks. Precious dollars for roads, schools, and housing are denied in taxes that are never paid. In turn, municipalities are just supposed to be grateful for this welfare, praying daily the corporation doesn’t deign to pack its bags and go elsewhere.

Too many politicians have been complicit in this game, Democrats especially. While Amazon will continue to poll “well”—Americans prize cheap and convenient consumption—politicians, especially those running for president, should not use this as an excuse to defend Amazon or look the other way. The “pro-business” Democrat is the anti-worker Democrat—at least in the era we live in now.

The only businesses that really matter are these mega-corporations, and most of them find democracy inconvenient. If they can obliterate the remnants of organized labor in this country, they will.

Since Donald Trump, beyond sliming Amazon founder Jeff Bezos for running the Washington Post, has no serious interest in breaking up corporate monopolies, it will fall to the next Democratic president to do so. All of the contenders, like Elizabeth Warren, must articulate clear anti-trust platforms and speak forcefully on behalf of the American worker.

Amazon must become a defining issue of this campaign, because it’s not going anywhere. Bezos will hunt for his tax breaks elsewhere. He will continue to accumulate wealth. Candidates must shun his business and say why. Then, and only then, will we exit this neo-Gilded Age for something better.

Independent


As I have repeatedly stated, these companies need to be taxed and broken up, if they are not then we shall witness our market squares and market streets evaporated totally. Mind you most towns are already there, most towns no longer have local amenities, no local butchers, no local shoe-shops, no local bakers, no local nothing, just a chain-supermarket, perhaps a pub if they are lucky and somewhere around an amazon warehouse. What a sad state of affairs. Break them, tax them, anti-trust them.

Honestly is there no anti-trust legislation any more?
#14988303
layman wrote:Regarding the “death of the high street.” Why is it a bad thing? Shopping in city centres is soul destroying.

Have parks and cafes there. Move the shops online or to malls/industrial parks.

I loved having everything I wanted within walking distance of each other on pedestrianised streets. I miss being able to go to the dentist, opticians, post office and shops in one pleasant destination. One of the few things I miss since leaving England and one of the reasons I never liked London, which for some reason puts all of its shops on busy roads.
#14988310
Hong Wu wrote:Looks like virtue signaling to me; rich New Yorkers probably all have Amazon Prime memberships and are getting their groceries delivered as well as tons of consumer items 24 hours a day but some people are cheering for the city rejecting Amazon's office. Silly.

A typically asinine Hong Wu post. It really is great to have you back.

1. Buying products from a company that is an effective monopoly doesn't mean that you lose any right to criticise them for the way they treat their workers, any more than taking the only available job means you forfeit your right to fair treatment.

2. The city didn't "reject" Amazon's office - they were bending over backwards to accommodate them, with $3bn of utterly unnecessary subsidies and a general "do whatever the hell you want and we'll look the other way" attitude. That's primarily what people have been criticising. And Bezos is clearly very hurt by all the mean and nasty regular people not worshipping Amazon enough, bless him.

People need to get out of this absurd mindset that a trillion-dollar company building a new headquarters somewhere is doing it out of a benevolent desire to give the common man a job, and that we should abase ourselves to give them everything they want. In what world, for example, is it reasonable that a guy on $50k a year pays more taxes than a company making $11bn a year in profits?Why do they need even more coddling?

Fuck Amazon, and fuck Bezos.
#14988316
layman wrote:Regarding the “death of the high street.” Why is it a bad thing? Shopping in city centres is soul destroying.


There are many reasons why having markets in towns is a good thing, more choice for consumers, less monopoly, more jobs for locals, more social interaction among town dwellers, more physical activity, more diversity, more places to voice political ideas. The shut-down of the high-street has immense consequences for economic, political and social life. The evaporation of the polis and agora and their replacement with virtual reality is an evolutionary step backwards. Equivalent to moving away from the polis back into cave-dwellings.
#14988380
MistyTiger wrote:As a citizen, I don't approve of big corporations and their monopolies.

But as a shopper, I like having all the merchandise on one site.

I'm so split on this situation. For now, I won't be boycotting them. No one else carries all the products I need to survive. :(



The convenience doesn't even begin to justify the theft and abuse. Amazon is a ludicrous monstrosity that could only exist in a profoundly retarded society.
#14988383
Interesting thing that's kind of unrelated to this thread.

Many economist believe that one of the reasons inflation has been low despite historically low interest rates, is because Amazon/Walmart and the like are just do damn good at keeping prices down with their ultra efficiency models.

Something that is more related to this thread. As far as I can tell, the reason they are able to keep prices down is precisely because they are rubbing governments of tax revenue, as well as paying their workers shit. :hmm:
#14988399
There is no problem with Amazon plays this game very nice and driving rivals out of market. This is called competition. Smart man wins the game. This is the success story of Amazon company. Jeff Bezos built this company from the bottom. Everything is perfect till here.

But Amazon HQ issue is a different story. Beating up rivals through competition and smart moves is one thing and forcing rivals out of business with government help is another thing. HQ issue is the latter.

Having a monopoly is not a bad thing if it reaches this point with no corruption. This is called success. But what Jeff Bezos did is corruption because he colluded with politicians to gain advantage. He did not play it like gentlemen do.

On the other hand, I understand US government's concerns. US compenies face serious competitors globally. Politicians want American compenies to stay in business.
#14988420
It is hilarious to me that republicans just love these big corporations. Yet, in them are the seeds of the destruction of free market capitalism.

The complaint about state owned business is not that it is state owned but that it is noncompetitive.
#14988495
Drlee wrote:It is hilarious to me that republicans just love these big corporations. Yet, in them are the seeds of the destruction of free market capitalism.

The complaint about state owned business is not that it is state owned but that it is noncompetitive.

Your anti- Trump bias makes you see things like this. I advise you to get real and free yourself from nonsense anti-Trumpism agenda.

Amazon HQ2 locations are New York and Virginia. Both of them are blue states. Doesn't this give you a hint about who is trying to kill American free market capitalism?
#14988538
As usual you do not understand the topic so it leads you to say stupid stuff.
Republicans love big companies because they mistakenly believe that they are free market entities. They also love the money they get in donations.
#14988549
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/busine ... se-n971841

"Amazon would have paid back far more than it was taking," Cooke said.

The state and the city had said that even with the breaks and subsidies, the deal would have created $27.5 billion in tax revenue over the next 25 years — a 9-to-1 payout on the investment.

It also would have helped diversify the city's economy and been a significant boost for the goal of turning New York into a tech hub, the experts said.

If the issue is that Amazon is not paying enough in taxes, wouldn't new taxes on Amazon be the ideal policy, not forcing them to go somewhere else? This is another part of why I think I am seeing virtue signaling here. It is so much easier to make them go away than it is to actually figure out how the situation should be handled. It's unclear if the people who have chosen the former have actually made progress against Amazon's lax tax situation or not.

It's also ironic that Trump was getting viciously assaulted (probably on this very forum too) for saying that Amazon needs to pay more in taxes at one point and then as soon as Amazon shows up, they turn on them by making an arguably irrational choice.

Update:
https://nypost.com/2019/02/12/majority- ... eens-poll/

58% of New York city residents wanted Amazon to come in, something like 35% were opposed. To see a deal like this squashed by one third of the population, some day even New Yorkers might get fed up with this stuff...
#14988556
Drlee wrote:Republicans love big companies because they mistakenly believe that they are free market entities.

Corporations are free market entities. At least in the Western world. It actually depends on if there is government intervention or not. For example, Chinese corporations are not free market entities.
They also love the money they get in donations

This is how free society operates. Charity culture is an American thing.
#14988563
Hong Wu wrote:58% of New York city residents wanted Amazon to come in, something like 35% were opposed. To see a deal like this squashed by one third of the population, some day even New Yorkers might get fed up with this stuff...


This assumes that each resident has equal power/say. This is of course, not true. This basically say's that the 1/3 that opposed this on average have more power and influence.

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