[annatar1914]

Bin Laden was NOT the 'architect' of the attack. Khalid S. Muhhamoud was. That's what the U.S charged and convicted him of.

All we know is that Bin Laden was visited by the prospective hijackers in 1999. They asked him to fund their idea for the 'Planes Operation' and he said no. Because he thought it wouldn't succeed. He though it was a crazy idea that couldn't be pulled off. Fuming with rage KSM orders them back to Germany, then speared them to their positions in the USA to orchestrate it.

THERE. That is the chronology. He had nothing to do with it. And expressed shock and surprise when he saw it on TV.

It's pointed out sometimes in an interview afterwards where he said "I knew of the plan beforehand." Yes that's correct. And he said no, because it'd be a waste of money to fund it (in his view at the time).

How many times does it have to be said? Osama Bin Laden WAS NOT the 'mastermind' or 'architect' of the terrorist attacks on the USA on the 11th of September?

What next? He invented the wheel? KSM did, why give him credit for something he didn't do? Well obviously for propaganda reasons, to justify an invasion we know the Neocons didn't want. Rumsfeld said 3 days afterwards "I don't want to invade Afghanistan, let's bomb Iraq!" And Richard Clarke said "But Iraq had nothing to do with this!". The Neocons wanted an excuse, as they said in their manifesto. "a new Perl Harbour" and so on.

This is the truth of the matter, but 17+ years on, the mythology takes hold in people's minds and this shocking event becomes the ur-event (as Jean Baudrillaud and Slavoj Zizek hinted at)that justifies and explains everything else that has happened hereafter. I resolved that very day that in my mind I would not let it be so. I must not have watched television for two months afterwards... But i'd like to think that it helped objectively speaking.

[jimjam]

Ilhan Omar is great and the GOP media's attempts to constantly smear her for the crime of being female and visibly non-white just make me think that whatever she's doing she should keep doing. This is the GOP's attempt to make being anyone like Omar or Ocasio-Ortez as painful and difficult as possible, because they are clearly threatened by them.

And just a reminder: Nearly all of the 9/11 guys were from Saudi Arabia. Trump recently sold nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia because they gave him a bribe.

Republicans and Donald have refined the politics of hate to a finely tuned art. You ain't seen nothing yet. Their hate machine is, as we rant, gearing up to do a job on Pete Buttigieg the gay mayor of South Bed Indiana. Mayor Pete even has a husband . A "Christian" talk show host has already claimed that Mayor Pete said that Jesus promoted sex with dogs. Here's the rub: Mayor Pete is brilliant. Speaks 7 languages, Harvard and a Rhodes Scholar. And, he is fast on his feet, a refreshing foil to Donald's hate politics. He won't fall for their shit and will (already has) turn it around on them calmly with a smile on his face.

as for Ilhan Omar, I heard the Fox Fake News version and I actually heard her WHOLE speech. Not just the cherry picked out of context Fox shit. It was like two different worlds. No objectivity on the part of Fox Fake News. Just a simple minded hate smeer.

[Hindsite]

Is that why Bin Laden was deliberately executed in the raid and his body dumped in the ocean?

That said, the US obviously didn't only want to eliminate Bin Laden, but the entire terror organization. Which might have been more successful if they didn't invade Iraq.

Bin Laden was killed during a raid by a Navy Seal unit and they believed they were treating Bin Laden with respect by burying his body at sea, according to what their leaders stated. Regardless of the reason, I am glad they shot that bastard in the head and got rid of the S.O.B.
HalleluYah

[annatar1914]

Bin Laden was killed during a raid by a Navy Seal unit and they believed they were treating Bin Laden with respect by burying his body at sea, according to what their leaders stated. Regardless of the reason, I am glad they shot that bastard in the head and got rid of the S.O.B.
HalleluYah

Did you know that the Bin Laden compound in Abbotabad is about 500 yards I think from a Pakistani Officer's Military Academy? That means that the Pakistani ISI knew where he was all that time, and therefore so did the rulers of Saudi Arabia. And, likely the top levels of the United States Government. Let that sink in real good.

Bin Laden was always a monster, but he was fine as long as he was our monster, then he became the enemy all of the sudden. He said it was because of the first Gulf War of 1990-1991, where he begged the Saudi king to let Muslim Jihadi veterans of the war in Afghanistan fighting the Russians fight Saddam Hussein instead of letting the ''infidel'' American troops fight Iraq. He was refused, and he declared war against his King and against the West. Would you have rather seen Jihadis fight Saddam Hussein instead of getting into a mess in the Middle East?

[Red_Army]

They obviously couldn't try Bin Laden because his years as a US intelligence asset made him privy to a whole lot of unsavory shit that would get dragged up in court. Much easier to kill him and keep the idea of him as a cartoon evildoer going.

[Hindsite]

Would you have rather seen Jihadis fight Saddam Hussein instead of getting into a mess in the Middle East?

I don't know what would have been best, but it is done now, so no point in crying over spilled milk. I am just glad that we eventually took out the evil mastermind of the 9/11 attack.
Praise the Lord.

[annatar1914]

I don't know what would have been best, but it is done now, so no point in crying over spilled milk. I am just glad that we eventually took out the evil mastermind of the 9/11 attack.
Praise the Lord.

How about we mind our own damn business as the founding fathers wished, stop meddling in everyone's affairs that we obviously know so damn little about, and maybe I can feel at peace about all the flag-draped coffins and widows and orphans and guys banged up in mind and body by all this monstrous useless warfare that I see all the damn time?

You want to go there and fight? Go to it. Just don't ask others to bleed for this bullshit.

[Hindsite]

How about we mind our own damn business as the founding fathers wished, stop meddling in everyone's affairs that we obviously know so damn little about, and maybe I can feel at peace about all the flag-draped coffins and widows and orphans and guys banged up in mind and body by all this monstrous useless warfare that I see all the damn time?

You want to go there and fight? Go to it. Just don't ask others to bleed for this bullshit.

And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(Matthew 24:6 NKJV)

Does the above statement by Jesus make you feel more at peace? It does me.
Praise the Lord.

[annatar1914]

And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
(Matthew 24:6 NKJV)

Does the above statement by Jesus make you feel more at peace? It does me.
Praise the Lord.

Sure, but that is a horse of a different color. ''hearing'' about wars and rumors of war is different than instigating wars and rumors of war.

[Hindsite]

Sure, but that is a horse of a different color. ''hearing'' about wars and rumors of war is different than instigating wars and rumors of war.

Good. Then don't instigate any and be at peace. That is what I shall also do in my old age.
HalleluYah

[Beren]

Bin Laden was NOT the 'architect' of the attack. Khalid S. Muhhamoud was. That's what the U.S charged and convicted him of.

How could Osama bin Laden have been the architect of anything? He was a renegade Saudi prince with money and connections, a posterboy that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Like how could Trump or Dubya be the architect of anything, including their own campaigns or presidencies?

[Suntzu]

He wasn't a Saudi prince and he was an engineer a seemed to be very smart.

[Beren]

He wasn't a Saudi prince and he was an engineer a seemed to be very smart.

He was a prince in the sense as Trump and Dubya were princes too. Trump's got a BS in Economics while Dubya graduated from Harvard Business School, so what? And here is a passage about Bin Laden from Wikipedia:

Bin Laden was raised as a devout Sunni Muslim. From 1968 to 1976, he attended the élite secular Al-Thager Model School. He studied economics and business administration at King Abdulaziz University. Some reports suggest he earned a degree in civil engineering in 1979, or a degree in public administration in 1981. One source described him as "hard working"; another said he left university during his third year without completing a college degree. At university, bin Laden's main interest was religion, where he was involved in both "interpreting the Quran and jihad" and charitable work. Other interests included writing poetry; reading, with the works of Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery and Charles de Gaulle said to be among his favorites; black stallions; and association football, in which he enjoyed playing at centre forward and followed the English club Arsenal.

This duel between Trump and Omar is like a conflict between America's past and future, by the way.

[Suntzu]

So Muslims are America's future? Trump is a graduate of an Ivy League school same as Obuthole.

[jimjam]

They obviously couldn't try Bin Laden because his years as a US intelligence asset made him privy to a whole lot of unsavory shit that would get dragged up in court. Much easier to kill him and keep the idea of him as a cartoon evildoer going.

The Lee Harvey Oswald technique

[Beren]

So Muslims are America's future?

No, America's young generation is.

[Zionist Nationalist]

No, America's young generation is.

The democrats prey on the young because thats their only way of winning
I hope Americans will wake up before they will discover that their country is stolen by foreigners and all wealth is be distributed to Hispanics and other minorities

[jimjam]

How about we mind our own damn business as the founding fathers wished, stop meddling in everyone's affairs that we obviously know so damn little about, and maybe I can feel at peace about all the flag-draped coffins and widows and orphans and guys banged up in mind and body by all this monstrous useless warfare that I see all the damn time?

You want to go there and fight? Go to it. Just don't ask others to bleed for this bullshit.

58,220 American boys dead in Vietnam so that the faceless billionaires who run America's war machine could profit. JFK was planning to withdraw from Vietnam. When they blew his brains out there were only 90 dead American boys. 58,220 steel coffins alone must have made good profits for some fat war profiteering sons of bitches.

Today the American government continues to deploy lethal force around the world for the purpose of protecting corporate profits/interests under the farcical cover of "peace keeping" missions.

The military of the United States is deployed in more than 150 countries around the world, with approximately 165,000 of its active-duty personnel serving outside the United States and its territories.

Outside of active combat, U.S. personnel are typically deployed as part of several peacekeeping missions, military attachés, or are part of embassy and consulate security. Nearly 40,000 are assigned to classified missions in locations that the U.S. government refuses to disclose.

[Rich]

For those of you into conspiracy theories try this one:

The Al Qaeda - ISIS conflict was all for show. Bagdadi has remained loyal to Zawahiri. The whole point of ISIS mad manning, the whole point of ISIS extremism was to drive us into the arms of Al Qaeda "moderates." While every ones trumpeting the American and allies Davids victory over the ISIS Goliath. How did wee little America mange to defeat big bad powerful ISIS in only a few years, no one seems to have noticed that Al Qaeda were one of the 4 victors of the Syrian civil war along with Assad, the Kurds and Turkey.

A conspiracy theory doesn't have to be true to be instructive. What I described above was the functional outcome, even if was not the intentional outcome of either Al Qaeda or ISIS.

Anyway the wider point is I don't see much mileage for anti-Marxists in this line of attack, which is why I started the other thread on IIhan Omar. I understand she has said she loves America, which is more than Michelle was willing to admit. I don't believe her for a moment, but I think she's far too smart, and American Conservatives far too confused about the correct response to 9/11, for her to get herself hung over the issue.

[Suntzu]

58,220 American boys dead in Vietnam so that the faceless billionaires who run America's war machine could profit. JFK was planning to withdraw from Vietnam. When they blew his brains out there were only 90 dead American boys. 58,220 steel coffins alone must have made good profits for some fat war profiteering sons of bitches.

Today the American government continues to deploy lethal force around the world for the purpose of protecting corporate profits/interests under the farcical cover of "peace keeping" missions.

The military of the United States is deployed in more than 150 countries around the world, with approximately 165,000 of its active-duty personnel serving outside the United States and its territories.

Outside of active combat, U.S. personnel are typically deployed as part of several peacekeeping missions, military attachés, or are part of embassy and consulate security. Nearly 40,000 are assigned to classified missions in locations that the U.S. government refuses to disclose.

The U.S. spends about as much on its military as the rest of the world's countries combined, about ten times as much as its closest rival, China.