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By JohnRawls
#15036423
Meh this situation has gone out of control honestly and giving Putin a win leaves a bad taste.

Scenario 1(Unlikely to happen at all. Less than 1%):
Democrats start impeaching Trump and actually make it to the end with full impeachment. Democrats will win the next election. This won't happen because no President in the US history has been officialy impreached. Technically Nixon was but he resigned and he was universally hated by that time and it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt what he did, how he did it plus it being a lot worse than what Trump did by a margin of 100. In reality impeachment will not happen because the conditions on it are to severe. Getting support of 2/3rds of the senate is simply an insurmountable task even if the democrats had the majority there but they don't.

Scenario 2(I guess 80% likely):
Impeachment gets started because that just requires 51% of the house but it leads to nowhere. Probably Biden vs Trump election happens. Putin knows what the shit is up so both Trump and Biden will try to get favour from the dark overlord to release or not release the information on Biden. Those favours -> Ukraine will not be able to do it because that could lead to suicidal consequences to itself. What will Putin ask in return? Probably that the Steinmeigher formula is followed to the letter in Donbass and Luhansk. This has been going in that direction for some time and Zelensky presence is just a plus. Zelensky has an inherent interest in this also because he promised to stop the war. So civil war in Ukraine stops, Steinmeigher formula is followed, elections are conducted in Donetsk/Luhansk meanwhile both sides make the hardliners disappear. Donetsk/Luhansk become part of Ukraine, Crimea is forgotten by everyone besides Ukraine which prevents it from joining NATO. (Not that any sane Ukranian leader wants in anyways seeing the consequences of the last attempt) Reset of relations between US/Russia and Europe lifts some if not all of the sanctions. No clue if America will do it, probably some will be lifted. Trump is an unstable partner but more of a safe choice since he will probably win if this information finds the light of day. Not to mention a 2nd presidential term is more unshackled compared to the first one. So the information gets released and Trump wins. Helps Putin with the above.
By Rugoz
#15036426
blackjack21 wrote:Yes. That's why we need to defeat the establishment/deep state.


I hope your realize that every dictator-supporter ever has made exactly the same argument.
What Hitler did was justified because he had to defeat the Jewish establishment/finance.
What Chavez/Maduro did was justifed because he had to defeat the capitalist class and American imperialists.

The deep state in America is simply a fantasy or at the very least gross exaggeration of yours.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15036428
Beren wrote:They oppose Latino immigrants the most, because they're mostly poor and there are too many of them, but they don't mind that the Trump saga could be a Latin American soap opera (or reality show). :lol:

Image


I don't mind Latino immigrants at all.

I mind illegal immigrants. Please tell me you realize the difference...
User avatar
By SpecialOlympian
#15036430
Rugoz wrote:I hope your realize that every dictator-supporter ever has made exactly the same argument.
What Hitler did was justified because he had to defeat the Jewish establishment/finance.
What Chavez/Maduro did was justifed because he had to defeat the capitalist class and American imperialists.

The deep state in America is simply a fantasy or at the very least gross exaggeration of yours.


Blackjack is fine with a dictatorship so long as it reinforces his desired racial hierarchy and attacks the people he hates. Also whatever YouTube nonsense he's been pouring onto his brain like mushroom fertilizer.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15036436
Beren wrote:It rather makes me wonder whether what it says about the people that voted and/or will vote for him.


The people who voted for him aren't politicians.

See, libs want us to believe that Trump's an idiot. But he beat the best the left had to offer, and that's undeniable...
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By JohnRawls
#15036437
SpecialOlympian wrote:Blackjack is fine with a dictatorship so long as it reinforces his desired racial hierarchy and attacks the people he hates. Also whatever YouTube nonsense he's been pouring onto his brain like mushroom fertilizer.


Honestly, he supports Trump mostly for tactical reasons since there is no better candidate. Simplefying it as if he wants a dictatorship/racism is just untrue. Trump ain't perfect but it is the best America got for now if you follow what blackjack considers a problem or not. In reality, Trump has not been any different compared to other Republican presidents. Perhaps starting a trade conflict in China is something new and speaking against globalisation. But both of those policies I support for example so i don't see it as an inherently bad thing.
By Hindsite
#15036438
JohnRawls wrote:Meh this situation has gone out of control honestly and giving Putin a win leaves a bad taste.

Scenario 1(Unlikely to happen at all. Less than 1%):
Democrats start impeaching Trump and actually make it to the end with full impeachment. Democrats will win the next election. This won't happen because no President in the US history has been officialy impreached. Technically Nixon was but he resigned and he was universally hated by that time and it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt what he did, how he did it plus it being a lot worse than what Trump did by a margin of 100. In reality impeachment will not happen because the conditions on it are to severe. Getting support of 2/3rds of the senate is simply an insurmountable task even if the democrats had the majority there but they don't.

Not everyone hated Nixon. After Nixon resigned, Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon of everything related to Watergate.
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By JohnRawls
#15036441
Hindsite wrote:Not everyone hated Nixon. After Nixon resigned, Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon of everything related to Watergate.


Uh, well he was:

Image

Trump for comparison:

Image
User avatar
By jimjam
#15036445
blackjack21 wrote:She went forward with her phony press conference before they had even released a transcript. Now that it is out and I've read it (and presumably you have too), I've concluded it's just more fake news. Can you quote the part of the transcript where you think Trump broke a law? Any law?


I will defer to you my friend. I do not begin to have the legal expertise to make the judgement that you have. Also I am not privy to knowledge of what Pelosi saw/knew prior to her phony press conference as, apparently, you are.
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By JohnRawls
#15036449
jimjam wrote:I will defer to you my friend. I do not begin to have the legal expertise to make the judgement that you have. Also I am not privy to knowledge of what Pelosi saw/knew prior to her phony press conference as, apparently, you are.

Under US Constitution almost anything can be an impeachable offence. Clinton got the proceedings for a blowjob for Christ sake.
By Rugoz
#15036450
JohnRawls wrote:Honestly, he supports Trump mostly for tactical reasons since there is no better candidate.


He doesn't. He peddles this nonsense about Trump draining the swamp, opposing neoliberalism, fighting the deep state or defending the working class.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15036454
JohnRawls wrote:Under US Constitution almost anything can be an impeachable offence. Clinton got the proceedings for a blowjob for Christ sake.


No, he got impeached because he lied under oath...
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By jimjam
#15036455
JohnRawls wrote:Under US Constitution almost anything can be an impeachable offence. Clinton got the proceedings for a blowjob for Christ sake.


The specific charges against the Clinton were lying under oath and obstruction of justice.

I think the greatest danger for Donald will transpire over the next year or so as the game proceeds. It will be lengthy and involve a myriad of details and, as you know, the devil is in the details. Fortunately for Donald he has a stable of maybe 12,400 lawyers to examine the details.
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By BigSteve
#15036457
jimjam wrote:Obese Donald is in fact legally obese...


Please cite a reference for the term "legally obese".

I've heard of "medically obese", but never "legally obese"...
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By BigSteve
#15036458
It's an interesting dichotomy.

On the one hand, you have the President asking for a "favor", and suggests that the Ukranian government should investigate Joe and Hunter Biden.

I can't say I don't find that mildly troublesome, but I don't think it rises to the level of being an impeachable offense. And, could it be considered an appropriate request if there was reason to suspect there might have been some wrongdoing on the part of Joe Biden? Because a strong argument could be made for that.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. Even if Trump is impeached, it would take 20 GOP Senators to side with the Democrats to get a conviction, and that's just not going to happen. The end result is that Trump can, and will, rightly claim exoneration while Democrats will have to admit that they failed and fell far short of their lofty goals.

That will only make Trump a far more formidable opponent in 2020...
User avatar
By jimjam
#15036459
A possible violation of criminal law has been raised. Mr. Trump’s comments to Mr. Zelensky “could be viewed as soliciting a foreign campaign contribution in violation of the campaign-finance laws,” Mr. Atkinson wrote, according to the Justice Department memo.

The second concern Mr. Atkinson identified, according to the Justice Department memo, was that Mr. Trump’s potential misconduct might expose him “to serious national security and counterintelligence risks.”

:hmm:
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15036460
jimjam wrote:The second concern Mr. Atkinson identified, according to the Justice Department memo, was that Mr. Trump’s potential misconduct might expose him “to serious national security and counterintelligence risks.”
:hmm:


When I think of Hillary Clinton's server, it's difficult for me to get too excited bout alleged security risks on the part of Trump...
User avatar
By jimjam
#15036462
BigSteve wrote:Please cite a reference for the term "legally obese".

I've heard of "medically obese", but never "legally obese"...

Oh, dry up. jimjam hereby publicly changes his description of Obese Donald's physical stature from "legally" obese to "medically" obese.

Now, mind you, medically obese may, in fact, qualify as legally obese and I encourage B.S. to do some citing on this matter. I, however, have no further interest in spending any more of my extremely valuable time with this pissing contest. I have far too many other pissing contests transpiring in my life at this time :lol: .
User avatar
By jimjam
#15036465
BigSteve wrote:When I think of Hillary Clinton's server, it's difficult for me to get too excited bout alleged security risks on the part of Trump...

Among Donald's apologists only "Hillary is worse" and "(name inserted here) is worse" come close to "fake news" as being their favored fall back defense of the Fat Guy.

and

Having the controversy over Mr. Trump’s dealings with Ukraine serve as the trigger for the formal inquiry sends a specific warning to foreign governments: America does not welcome, nor will it tolerate, the meddling of other nations in its elections. This is an especially crucial point to make in light of Mr. Trump’s seeming refusal to confront Russia about its interference in 2016 and his public comment in June that he’d be open to foreign assistance in 2020. House leadership is making clear that it will take extreme action to prevent another assault on the democratic process. House Democrats are also giving notice that every lawmaker, regardless of party, should be prepared to take a public stand on whether presidents are free to use their powers to summon foreign assistance for their political campaigns.
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