Undocumented Aliens and Crime - Page 23 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15122685
@Doug64

How does any of that affect my claim that this thread is racist?

Also, I did address your point that people actively try to get undocumented workers in the country: the ones who profit from them by employing them.
#15122696
@Pants-of-dog, once again, since you’ve agreed that the mere fact that most undocumented aliens are Hispanic doesn’t mean that reporting on crimes committed by undocumented aliens and calling for their deportation isn’t inherently racist, how is this thread racist?

Edit: Also, what do you think of the police releasing ten times an undocumented alien criminal rather than turning him over to immigration authorities?
#15122704
@Unthinking Majority, granted, there’s still a fundamental difference between those undocumented aliens who, once in the country, seriously injure and/or prey on those around them and those that don’t.
#15122750
Doug64 wrote:@Unthinking Majority, granted, there’s still a fundamental difference between those undocumented aliens who, once in the country, seriously injure and/or prey on those around them and those that don’t.


Sure I agree. But they are all scamming the system and it isn't in any way fair to those whose immigration application is denied and then voluntarily leave as they are supposed to. It must make them very angry because they're punished for having enough respect & responsibility to follow the rules.

If you're rejected and you leave as per the law, you should get credit for that for the next time you might apply, and those who cheat the system should have it flagged and punished on their application. Some call for amnesty in the US for illegals. It's one solution. I'd consider giving them legal status, but I don't think they should ever be granted citizenship. You can't reward and thus encourage criminal behaviour.

Every country has the sovereignty including the right to choose who they want and don't want to come inside their country and it's enshrined as one of the fundamental rights in the UN Charter.

Immigration laws are the only laws you can break where people feel sorry for the criminal. People blame governments when lives are disrupted when people are deported for not following the law, or when their children have to leave their friends. It is sad, but they should actually blame the people who put themselves and their children in that situation in the first place. It isn't the gov's fault when someone else breaks their laws. They knew and accepted the risks.
#15122757
Doug64 wrote:@Pants-of-dog, once again, since you’ve agreed that the mere fact that most undocumented aliens are Hispanic doesn’t mean that reporting on crimes committed by undocumented aliens and calling for their deportation isn’t inherently racist, how is this thread racist?


Sorry, but can you rewrite this as a clear sentence? thanks.

It seems like you are saying that the thread cannot be racist because I supposedly agreed that mist undocumented workers are Hispanic.

I did not agree to that, since I am not sure that is the case (though it would not surprise me either) but that would still not make this thread magically not racist.

All you have done was clarify how people associate crime, being undocumented, and being Hispanic all together.

Edit: Also, what do you think of the police releasing ten times an undocumented alien criminal rather than turning him over to immigration authorities?


Considering the awful things that ICE agents do, it was probably the moral choice.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?

—————————

Unthinking Majority wrote:Every undocumented immigrant is a criminal unless they arrived by force (ie: as a child, or were trafficked against their will).


What criminal law are they breaking?
#15122759
@Rancid, what’s funny about being LDS?


The underwear... Moving on.

@Pants-of-dog, no, I don’t understand how highlighting the crimes committed by those people the Leftist elites are refusing to prevent from illegally entering our country or deport once they are here “perpetuates racial stereotypes.”


No doubt, when you are interacting with your Republican friends you find this kind of argument falls on sympathetic ears. I can almost hear them fist-pumping and shouting "HELL yea."

We, OTOH, are not so simple and will not allow you to get away with your Rupert Murdock political talking points. So let see.

We have the term "leftist elites". You do not mean that. You want us to believe that the Democratic Party is "leftist" and "elite". Of course this is the exact opposite of the truth. First of all there are no "open borders" types in the leadership of the Democratic Party. Now I will point out that the Libertarian Party, which votes almost entirely with the Republican Party, does, in their platform, advocate for completely open borders. But the truth is of no significance in your world view so we will move on again.

But I wonder. Are all sanctuary cities in "leftist" states? You guessed it my racist friend. They are not.

Oklahoma is pretty red, is it not? Went for Trump in double digits? The "leftists" running the county made it a sanctuary county. Why did they do that Doug? Red state Ohio went for Trump. Why are two large population counties, on containing the bright red city Cincinnati, a sanctuary county Doug? Why is that? Why are the three largest counties in Georgia, all bright red for Trump, sanctuary counties? All of Iowa is sanctuary. Why Doug? Could it be that they aren't afraid of this massive crime wave you would have us believe that Mes'kins are doin'? Jackson County Mississippi? Trump all the way. Why Doug. Why almost all of Colorado including the bright red rural areas? Why most of Pennsylvania? Are you going to tell us that Shelby County Tennessee (Memphis) is "leftist"? That true of Nebraska too? Several counties in rural Virginia? What happened" Communists get them while we were not looking. Many many more.

You fucked up dude. And I just owned you for it.

Trump has the perfect method to stop illegal immigration in its tracks. (IT was at an all-time low when Obama was president.) Trump could start workplace enforcement. But he does not. Why? Because his fat-cat masters would cut his dick off if he tried. He employs a shit ton of them himself and Trump properties advertise for workers overseas.)

Now you would not want us to understand that undocumented aliens (actually overstaying your visa is not a crime so I do not call them all "illegals") commit crimes at a much lower rate than citizens. I posted the proof of this earlier in this racist thread. Of course one could not deny that any specific criminal would not commit the crime here if he was not here. But then this would be true of all of the Mormon criminals and Point of the Mountain has a bunch of them. If Mormons had been suppressed as most of the United States wanted at the time those folks would not be here committing crimes. But, you see, we did not suppress the Mormons. We did not run them out of the country (whose laws they were violating in spades) because Americans....... We did threaten to pull their tax exempt status and a miracle happened.

You should be more sensitive to racism Doug. Perhaps it is your upbringing. Did you ever hear of a guy named Brigham Young or Joseph Fielding Smith?

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, un- comely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:290-291, October 9, 1859)

Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse placed upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel.


It it this kind of upbringing that allows you to easily dismiss undocumented aliens as much the same as above? Did you conveniently forget the Joseph Smith petitioned the US government for reparations because he felt Mormons were an "oppressed minority". Did you forget that he relied on the status of Nauvoo Illinois, which was a precursor to and absolutely the very definition of a sanctuary city. The most liberal charter in the country at the time. Far more than any modern version. And Remember the Joseph Smith guy? Did you forget that he used his sanctuary city to avoid arrest on Missouri charges? Charges that in any other city in Illinois would have sent him to the gray bar hotel for a very long time.

The fucking hypocrisy is just dripping from your racist posts. But no doubt there is no connection between then and now. Right Doug? Or is it that your Mormon ancestors were all white? Is that the difference?

Face it Doug64. Your church barred blacks from the temple and the priesthood until 1978. 1978 Doug. 14 years after the Civil Rights act. I note that they were NOT banned from tithing 10% of their gross earnings were they Doug?

You need to do some serious soul searching. You need to stop this racist tirade and remember that, like your religious ancestors, they are just looking for a place to thrive. And when they get to the hill overlooking the US border they simply stop and say, "THIS IS THE PLACE".
#15122764
Pants-of-dog wrote:Considering the awful things that ICE agents do, it was probably the moral choice.
Ah, so now we've gone from the "it's racist to illustrate the harm inflicted on us by undocumented alien criminals and the governments that allow them to run rampant" lie to the "law enforcement are Nazis" lie. We've sure been getting a lot of that one lately, did you cheer when you heard that someone shot a couple cops during the riots last night?

So you would really rather have a man on the streets with harassment, firearms, grand larceny, possession of stolen property, and assault charges than turn him over to those tasked with sending him home. I'm sure the citizens of New York would thank you for that. Those are just lucky he made the mistake of wandering into a jurisdiction that wouldn't give him free rein to carry on with his depredations, unlike their own government.

Unthinking Majority wrote:Sure I agree. But they are all scamming the system and it isn't in any way fair to those whose immigration application is denied and then voluntarily leave as they are supposed to. It must make them very angry because they're punished for having enough respect & responsibility to follow the rules.

Agreed, My preferred immigration policy would be that anyone without a criminal record or judges a security risk can come here to look for work that is able to put the cost of a return ticket home in an escrow account for use if they are unable to support themselves and there's no one willing and able to pay their living expenses. But the harm inflicted on our own working poor by undocumented aliens just is not right, and the way an amnesty pushes them ahead of those trying to come here legally is disgusting. But still, undocumented aliens are mostly just trying to build a better life for themselves, who can blame them for that?

@Rancid, what’s funny about being LDS?

Drlee wrote:The underwear... Moving on.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post, I imagine it's as unhinged as the other rants you've been posting lately. But I do have to ask, do you mock Jews that wear the kippah?
#15122767
Oh you read it alright Doug. You got owned and your personal political beliefs motivated perhaps by your religious beliefs exposed for what they are.

But understand. I do not write what I write to change your or any other racists mind. I find that almost impossible to do. I write so that others reading it will understand what you are saying, why you might possibly be saying it and why they should reject it.

That what I write may reflect on your character and motivation is just a bonus.
#15122770
Doug64 wrote:Ah, so now we've gone from the "it's racist to illustrate the harm inflicted on us by undocumented alien criminals and the governments that allow them to run rampant"


This is a strawman.

It is also worth noting that you seem to have deliberately excluded me explaining what my actual position on how this thread is racist.

Please note that once again you have repeated the disproven claim that immigrants are more dangerous than white people.

lie to the "law enforcement are Nazis" lie. We've sure been getting a lot of that one lately, did you cheer when you heard that someone shot a couple cops during the riots last night?


And now you are making a strawman and accusing me of wanting violence.

You asked what I thought, I answered despite the fact that it seemed irrelevant to my point.

So you would really rather have a man on the streets with harassment, firearms, grand larceny, possession of stolen property, and assault charges than turn him over to those tasked with sending him home. I'm sure the citizens of New York would thank you for that. Those are just lucky he made the mistake of wandering into a jurisdiction that wouldn't give him free rein to carry on with his depredations, unlike their own government.


Please provide evidence that he was charged with these crimes. I do not trust your questionable sources, so please provide a link to a source that is not deemed questionable by fact checkers. Thanks.

——————

Unthinking Majority wrote:https://www.uscis.gov/laws-and-policy/o ... issibility


There is no mention of a criminal law on that page.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... ion=prelim


This seems to be a set of policies for immigration officials and does not actually constitute criminal law.
#15122782
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that once again you have repeated the disproven claim that immigrants are more dangerous than white people.

When did I say that? For that matter, when have I ever said that all undocumented aliens are Hispanic, as you yourself seem to assume? After all, talking about the dangers of criminal undocumented aliens can't be racist unless it is a status that is linked to race.

You asked what I thought, I answered despite the fact that it seemed irrelevant to my point.

It might be irrelevant to your point, but it isn't irrelevant to mine, and the reason I started this thread in the first place--there are criminals preying on the innocent that state and city governments will not allow the federal government to send back to their home countries. And you are apparently fine with that.

Please provide evidence that he was charged with these crimes. I do not trust your questionable sources, so please provide a link to a source that is not deemed questionable by fact checkers. Thanks.

What fact checkers? The ones that gave the New York Times their highest rating in spite of the way it was so horribly, hilariously wrong about Trump and the investigations time after time? The fact checkers that, in spite of their obvious bias, gave the Washington Times a grade no worse than CNN and acknowledged the newspaper's balance in its news reporting? Those fact checkers? I'll take the honest reporting of the Washington Times over those sources that used to be news outlets before they became propagandists for the Democrats and the Left any day. "Mostly peaceful protestors."
#15122820
Doug64 wrote:When did I say that? For that matter, when have I ever said that all undocumented aliens are Hispanic, as you yourself seem to assume? After all, talking about the dangers of criminal undocumented aliens can't be racist unless it is a status that is linked to race.


If you are making the assertion that undocumented immigrants cause harm at a significant level, while ignoring the harm caused by other groups, you are implicitly claiming that these people are dangerous, and perhaps even more dangerous than others.

It might be irrelevant to your point, but it isn't irrelevant to mine, and the reason I started this thread in the first place--there are criminals preying on the innocent that state and city governments will not allow the federal government to send back to their home countries. And you are apparently fine with that.


If you wish to accuse me of being fine with that, go ahead.

And yes, none of this has to do with the fact that this thread is racist. Except perhaps that you are justifying this racism because you want to attack Dems.

What fact checkers? The ones that gave the New York Times their highest rating in spite of the way it was so horribly, hilariously wrong about Trump and the investigations time after time? The fact checkers that, in spite of their obvious bias, gave the Washington Times a grade no worse than CNN and acknowledged the newspaper's balance in its news reporting? Those fact checkers? I'll take the honest reporting of the Washington Times over those sources that used to be news outlets before they became propagandists for the Democrats and the Left any day. "Mostly peaceful protestors."


If you have no evidence, then your argument is dismissed as unsupported.

Also, this is the second time that you incorrectly claim that CNN is also rated as a questionable source.
#15122858
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you are making the assertion that undocumented immigrants cause harm at a significant level, while ignoring the harm caused by other groups, you are implicitly claiming that these people are dangerous, and perhaps even more dangerous than others.

I see, this is another one of those times where you’ll insist that anyone that expresses concern about one aspect of a problem without simultaneously expressing concern for all other aspects is somehow a hypocrite or doesn’t really care, after all. I suppose that means Mothers Against Drunk Driving don’t really care, because they don’t simultaneously express their outrage at all the other problems caused by drinking to excess. And then there’s the insistence that pro-lifers aren’t really pro-lifers because they don’t care about babies after they’re born—another lie, but like the others it makes a handy excuse for denying the validity of their concerns.

The problem with arguing that crimes committed by undocumented aliens is lower than the general population and therefore isn’t something to pay special attention to (a myth, but a useful one for those favoring wide-open borders), is that when it comes to undocumented aliens any crime is too much because they aren’t supposed to be here. And along with whatever punishment they merit for their crimes, there’s an additional simple solution to protect the innocent from their depredations—send them home.

And yes, none of this has to do with the fact that this thread is racist. Except perhaps that you are justifying this racism because you want to attack Dems.

Got it, focusing no a non-racial grouping of people is racist. And black is white, and the sun rises in the west.

If you have no evidence, then your argument is dismissed as unsupported.

I presented the news article. Are you going to insist that all the riots that have been happening all summer didn’t happen because the news reports aren’t evidence?

Also, this is the second time that you incorrectly claim that CNN is also rated as a questionable source.

I remember what I read, if I remember it wrong provide the link again to prove it. And note that I didn’t say your source claimed CNN is a questionable resource, I said it gave CNN the same ranking as the Washington Times. You are the one that’s conflating the two.
#15122864
Doug64 wrote:The problem with arguing that crimes committed by undocumented aliens is lower than the general population and therefore isn’t something to pay special attention to (a myth, but a useful one for those favoring wide-open borders), is that when it comes to undocumented aliens any crime is too much because they aren’t supposed to be here. And along with whatever punishment they merit for their crimes, there’s an additional simple solution to protect the innocent from their depredations—send them home.


This seems like an arbitrary issue based solely on whether or not you (Doug64) feel they are “supposed” to be here or not.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?

Got it, focusing no a non-racial grouping of people is racist. And black is white, and the sun rises in the west.


The vast majority of the articles you cited depict Latinos and Hispanics as criminals. The one exception I found targeted a black person.

The fact that you framed the discussion as one about immigration does not change that fact.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?

I presented the news article. Are you going to insist that all the riots that have been happening all summer didn’t happen because the news reports aren’t evidence?


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-times/

    QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

    A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact checked on a per article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

    Although the Washington Times has a very strong right editorial bias, they report straight news with a much lower bias. Therefore, we rate them Right-Center biased overall. We also rate them Questionable and factually mixed due to poor sourcing, holding editorial positions that are contrary to scientific consensus, and numerous failed fact checks.

Note the bolded phrase.

Please provide independent verification of the criminal charges faced by Jhonny Soto-Ubaldo. Thanks.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?

I remember what I read, if I remember it wrong provide the link again to prove it. And note that I didn’t say your source claimed CNN is a questionable resource, I said it gave CNN the same ranking as the Washington Times. You are the one that’s conflating the two.


The ranking that mediabias gave the Washington Times is “Questionable Source” and “Right-Center Biased”.

Please show that the same website also ranked CNN as Questionable Source and Right-Center Biased.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?
#15123359
Thanks for providing the link. Here how the website ranks CNN's factual reporting and bias:

Image

And here's the Washington Times:

Image

You'll note that both are Mixed, and CNN is farther to the left than the Washington Times is to the right. The "Questionable Source" is a label, not the ranking. And when you look at the reasons the site gives for giving that label to the Washington Times, it's ludicrous:

    Although the Washington Times has a very strong right editorial bias, they report straight news with a much lower bias. Therefore, we rate them Right-Center biased overall. We also rate them Questionable and factually mixed due to poor sourcing, holding editorial positions that are contrary to scientific consensus, and numerous failed fact checks.

First, note the "they report straight news with a much lower bias." Beyond that, there's these:

  • "poor sourcing": This basically comes down to the lack of links in the articles. This is ludicrous--regardless of whether you want to argue that an internet website should include such, I doubt this site is going to argue that actual, physical newspapers aren't reliable because they can't provide such links.
  • "holding editorial positions that are contrary to scientific consensus": Note first, these are editorial positions, not news reporting. How a paper editorializes should have nothing to do with judging the reliability of their reporting, and they note that "when covering straight news on climate change they report accurately ..." Second, note the phrase "scientific consensus"; that is the second strike against this--science is a matter of fact not opinion, whether that opinion is held by most scientists or not. To quote Michael Crichton, "Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had." "Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled."
  • "numerous failed fact checks": The fact check sites themselves are biased against conservative politicians and media both in how often they fact check them and in the checks themselves. I would need to look at every fact check the site is using to judge the validity of their judgment. I did look at the "fact checks" that the site linked to, and in every case the Washington Times articles were in fact accurate and the fact checker either misportrayed the article or was outright wrong.

So every one of the reasons they give for their "Questionable Source" label is either wrong-headed, just plain wrong, or requires independent verification.
#15123433
Your hatred of CNN is off topic.

Even if CNN were a questionable source, which it is not, it would still not make your source any less dishonest.

I have no idea why are trying to justify dishonest reporting by accusing CNN (a source I did not use in this thread) of also being just as bad.

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?
#15123434
@Doug64

What do you think of the collusion between the Trump administration and breitbart to create racial hatred against Latinos? Do you think their plans to target Rubio because of his ethnicity were about clarifying the threat that “the Left” represents?
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