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#15046905
At least nine Americans killed in Mexican highway ambush
The dead included 8-month-old twins, said Kendra Lee Miller, who is related to many of the victims. There were at least eight survivors.


ov. 5, 2019, 1:15 AM EST / Updated Nov. 5, 2019, 4:26 PM EST
By Caroline Radnofsky, Alex Johnson and Yuliya Talmazan
At least nine U.S. citizens, including six children, were killed Monday in an apparent ambush on a highway in the Mexican border state of Sonora, according to relatives of the victims and local media reports.

The dead included 8-month-old twins, said a family member, Kendra Lee Miller. Eight children survived, some seriously wounded, including a 9-month-old who was shot in the chest and a 4-year-old shot in the back, Miller said.

Willie Jessop, who is related to one victim, told NBC News by phone from Utah that the attack was on a motorcade consisting of several families, and that survivors at the scene told him that three cars were shot at and one was set on fire.

The Mexican government said Tuesday that three SUVs were hit in the assault.

Download the NBC News app for breaking news

“Everyone is in so much shock," Jessop said, adding that he has been in contact with Mexican federal officials and the FBI. "It's just unbelievable, and there's just no way to comprehend it."

Dawna Johnson and her son Trevor were killed in the attack.Dawna Langford and her son Trevor were killed in the attack.Courtesy of Kendra Miller
Mexican government authorities said the family of three women and 14 children were on their way from Galeana, Chihuahua, to Bavispe, Sonora, and were attacked near the border between the two states.

Rhonita Miller was on her way to a shopping trip in Arizona with her family, while the others were going to Chihuahua to visit relatives, Kendra Lee Miller said.

The victims were identified by Miller as Christina Marie Langford Johnson, 29; Dawna Langford, 43; Trevor Langford, 11; and Rogan Langford, 2-and-a-half.

Also killed were Rhonita Miller, 30; Howard Miller, 12; Krystal Miller, 10; and the 8-month-old twins, Titus and Tiana Miller.

Kendra Lee Miller said a 13-year-old, Devin Langford, escaped uninjured and then walked for about 14 miles to La Mora, where the family lived, for help after hiding his wounded siblings in bushes and covering them with branches.

Mckenzie Langford, 9, was grazed in the arm with a bullet, but she also went to look for help after Devin did not come back, Miller said. Mckenzie got lost and walked for hours in the dark before she was found by search parties.

Rhonita Miller and her twins, Titus and Tiana, were killed in the attack.Courtesy of Kendra Miller
"The attacks in Northern Mexico on American citizens, including women, children, and infants, is a stark example of how these brutal organizations operate on a daily basis," Homeland Security Undersecretary David Glawe told a Senate panel on Tuesday.

"The violence and disregard for human life displayed by these criminal organizations is as barbaric and gruesome as any terrorist organization we see around the globe."

La Mora is about 75 miles south of the U.S. border. The community is descended from Mormon settlers, and some members are still practicing members of the church.

El Universal, one of Mexico's largest newspapers, quoted other relatives as saying that the family is Mormon and the attack appeared to be an organized crime ambush. There was no immediate indication of who was behind the attack.

Officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sought to distance themselves from victims, who they consider to be from a polygamist group not affiliated with LDS.

"We are heartbroken to hear of the tragedy that has touched these families in Mexico," according to a statement from church spokesman Eric Hawkins.

"Though it is our understanding that they are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our love, prayers and sympathies are with them as they mourn and remember their loved ones.

And former U.S. Ambassador to Mexico Roberta Jacobson said it's well known that breakaway Mormons have been living in the region for years.

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"I mean, I think it’s important to understand in the midst of this incredible tragedy — and our hearts go out to the families — that these are dual nationals who had been living in Mexico," Jacobson told MSNBC on Tuesday.

"There has been a community of Mormons in Mexico for a long time, where people who broke off from the Mormon Church."

The ambush comes amid a wave of violence in Mexico in recent weeks, shocking even for a country used to more than a decade of intense drug-war brutality. The most notable incident was a military-style cartel assault that forced the government to release a leader of the Sinaloa Cartel in October.

Former Ambassador Jacobson said the Americans could be victims of violently reckless drug runners.

"So we don’t know the details of this particular case, but unfortunately the reaction from cartel members is often to shoot first and ask questions later about who may have been involved," Jacobson said. "And the issue of children in this, I think, is what makes it so very horrific."

In response to Monday's killings, President Donald Trump tweeted that a "wonderful family and friends from Utah got caught between two vicious drug cartels, who were shooting at each other, with the result being many great American people killed."

Trump added that the United States was "ready, willing and able" to help Mexico "in cleaning out these monsters," should Mexico want assistance.

Reuters, Elizabeth Chuck, David K. Li and Pete Williams contributed.
#15046907
La Mora is about 75 miles south of the U.S. border. The community is descended from Mormon settlers, and some members are still practicing members of the church.

El Universal, one of Mexico's largest newspapers, quoted other relatives as saying that the family is Mormon and the attack appeared to be an organized crime ambush. There was no immediate indication of who was behind the attack.

Officials with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints sought to distance themselves from victims, who they consider to be from a polygamist group not affiliated with LDS.

"We are heartbroken to hear of the tragedy that has touched these families in Mexico," according to a statement from church spokesman Eric Hawkins.


That was the reason behind the attack. They were polygamist Mormons Fin. Mitt Romney has Mormon relatives in Mexico. Northern Mexico. They kidnapped one of the boys and held him for ransom. They were effective at exposing the criminals and creating issues and prosecuting them.

These criminal organizations want total control of these drug route areas and they hate these communities that are very good at fighting the cartels based on having political clout or being able to mobilize some pressure. I think they did that horrible, immoral gruesome crime in order to herald that they are not going to give them a free pass....

They made a serious mistake. The current government, the USA government and the religious communities are going to go after their heads. And the truth is....they are going to find these criminals. No doubt.
#15047226
Tainari88 wrote:That was the reason behind the attack. They were polygamist Mormons Fin. Mitt Romney has Mormon relatives in Mexico. Northern Mexico. They kidnapped one of the boys and held him for ransom. They were effective at exposing the criminals and creating issues and prosecuting them.


How do people know that the family are polygamists? I haven't watched your video yet, but I don't understand the relevance of the polygamy angle.

Also, right on cue, the anti-2nd amendment extremists are using this attack to push their agenda. They are blaming the attack on the US with no evidence.

Just like Chicago officials blame the state of Indiana for their violent gun crime, Mexico is blaming the US for their gun violence problems.



Mormon Family Mourns Their Dead In Mexico, Calls For U.S. To Rein In Its Guns

President Trump has extended his condolences to relatives of victims — three mothers and six children, all U.S. citizens — on Tuesday. But it was Trump's offer to help by sending the U.S. military into Mexico that drew a response from both the family and Mexico's government.

President Andrés Manuel López Obrador quickly rebuffed Trump's offer, saying his government will seek justice in the case. And on Wednesday, López Obrador's top security official went further, saying the U.S. could help — by stopping the flow of high-powered weapons into Mexico.

"This is a grave problem we have in the country, the smuggling of arms, particularly from the U.S.," Security Minister Alfonso Durazo said in an update on the case Wednesday morning. Of the flow of weapons from the U.S., he added, "it's what has allowed the criminal groups to increase their firepower."

For years, many Mexican politicians have believed, as NPR's Jason Beaubien reported in 2010, that Mexico's incredibly violent drug war is "fueled by U.S. demand for narcotics, fought with weapons from U.S. gun shops, and funded by U.S. cash that flows freely across the border."

When the U.S. performed its own tally of illegal guns that were seized in Mexico, the Government Accountability Office reported that more than 73,000 weapons seized in Mexico from 2009 to 2014 were traced back to the U.S. About half of those were long guns.
But officials on both sides of the border also said they were seeing unfinished gun parts — which aren't covered by the U.S. Gun Control Act — leaving the U.S. for Mexico, where they can easily be assembled into finished weapons.
#15047240
maz wrote:How do people know that the family are polygamists? I haven't watched your video yet, but I don't understand the relevance of the polygamy angle.

Also, right on cue, the anti-2nd amendment extremists are using this attack to push their agenda. They are blaming the attack on the US with no evidence.

Just like Chicago officials blame the state of Indiana for their violent gun crime, Mexico is blaming the US for their gun violence problems.



Mormon Family Mourns Their Dead In Mexico, Calls For U.S. To Rein In Its Guns


Maz, you haven't watched the video I posted. It answered all those questions. The Mormons have issues with Mexican laws. Mexican law doesn't allow guns. Period. They are like Japan with the strict ass gun laws. The Narcs get the guns from the USA and the USA to make profits ship them illegally into Mexico. The Mormons wanted their own guns to protect themselves from the drug cartels but they had to come up with a gun range 'sport' guns excuse to legally try to acquire guns. You are assuming Mexico has the same laws as the USA. Mexico doesn't have the same laws. The Mormons left Utah, etc for Mexico a long time ago when the law of the USA outlawed polygamy. Mexico due to Indian religions and culture and other reasons doesn't interfere with religious social customs. So they were more free to practice their religion in Mexico than in the USA.

The current government headed by Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador stated he will go after these murderers with the federal police and the local police and also won't rule out bringing in Trump and the FBI to help out....he states in the video. The religious community of Mormons will also go after the dudes. I have no doubts.

Don't jump to conclusions Maz. Watch the video. The American polygamists also had a very long history of crime and violence in Mexico. See the video. It is not about 'race' or culture. It is about $$$$. The USA consumes drugs in huge quantities, and also sells guns and modern weaponry to drug kingpins in Northern Mexico. Mexican law enforcement discusses the issue with Vice. Look at the video.
#15047250
Tainari88 wrote: You are assuming Mexico has the same laws as the USA. Mexico doesn't have the same laws.


I'm actually not assuming that. I know that Mexico has strict gun laws to the point where the only place citizens can legally get guns is on a military instillation. Or so I've heard.

My point about the guns was that there was an assumption that US guns were used in this particular crime. I don't see how this can even be known when authorities don't even know who the shooters were.

Also, even if all rifles in the US were banned, these cartels would simply get them from somewhere else, and then Americans would not be able to defend themselves against cartels if they were ever to invade and take over border towns.
#15047251
The victims are reportedly all dual US-Mexican citizens who live in a community which broke away from the mainstream Mormon Church and settled in Mexico nearly a century ago. The victims are basically locals who are familiar with the risks associated with living in Mexico. The motive for Monday's attack may be a case of mistaken identity. I suspect that the family got into trouble with local drug gangs.

A man arrested Tuesday in the Mexican border city of Agua Prieta with a cache of weapons was not involved in the killings of nine U.S. citizens, Mexican officials say, as pressure mounted on the government to make an arrest.

Alfonso Durazo, a public security official, said Wednesday that preliminary information indicates that the suspect detained Tuesday is not linked to the attack, The Associated Press reported. NBC News was not immediately able to independently verify the AP report.
#15047262
Finfinder wrote:When they brutally murdered infant babies, it was personal.


Did you hear about the El Rikin? The dude murdered 18 drug addicted adults for checking into a rehab clinic because they 'betrayed'the drugs. You are dealing with total psychos.
#15047265
Finfinder wrote:When they brutally murdered infant babies, it was personal.


They are ruthless murdering freaks bent on making money.

The Mormons in the video had a guy named Ervil LeBaron who went on a blood atonement killing spree that lasted for years. He was arrested and imprisoned and yet the killing spree continued. The video covers it. The man had 13 wives and a bunch of kids something like 50+ children.

Magic underwear and blood atonement? Joseph Smith believed in polygamy and he also believed Jesus Christ visited the Western USA as in Utah and Jesus was in the Americas, etc etc. I know a lot of Mormons since I lived in Ogden, Utah for a while in the late 1980's. I think they have a lot of religious practices that are exgtremely strange. Thinking for a time that being Black was the sign of Cain.

A bunch of beliefs I thought highly ahistorical.

The infants being murdered was about sending some terror message because the Mormons are EFFECTIVE at mobilizing aginst the Drug Cartels and their kidnapping and threats....they are able to effectively isolate the drug dealers trying to pull money out of the pockets of the families. They hated losing that. So they want to keep going. They will lose that war against the religious Mormon community. They will lose badly. But they (the drug dealers) are too filled up with guns and cash to think ahead and be logical. Fools. And very horrible people Fin.
#15047294
Tainari88 wrote:Did you hear about the El Rikin? The dude murdered 18 drug addicted adults for checking into a rehab clinic because they 'betrayed'the drugs. You are dealing with total psychos.


This will be a difficult challenge for president Trump as this is the common ground he now has with Mexico, however the US must be careful not to bring the Mexican terrorist here to US soil which can easily happen.
I heard some stats that Mexican drug cartels have killed more Americans that ISIS and many more thousands of Mexicans and Latino.
#15047318
Finfinder wrote:This will be a difficult challenge for president Trump as this is the common ground he now has with Mexico, however the US must be careful not to bring the Mexican terrorist here to US soil which can easily happen.
I heard some stats that Mexican drug cartels have killed more Americans that ISIS and many more thousands of Mexicans and Latino.


Finfinder, there is a drug war going in Puerto Rico. The lack of funds for paying cops has meant that cops can't feed their families and they moved to the USA en masse. Puerto Rico (San Juan) had thousands of police. I think they lost about 20,000 cops out of an island of about 3.5 million people. They only have about 7,000 remaining. You can't run a country or a nation on zero public funds to pay fire fighters, teachers, nurses, cops...your society will fall apart. The drug war is not good.

The USA is creating the issue as well with the consumption market for the drugs. And drug gangs are in every major city and small towns with enough of a market too...the USA has to start coping with drugs. It is leading to incredibly violent horrors in Latin America because poverty is the attraction. Both Puerto Rico and Mexico have strong laws against owning guns in general. But it is not working. Because of the poverty and the lack of decent working wages, crime and corruption. You have to have a disincentive for the violence. If the money being generated by the drug addicts in the USA is incredibly high? It is horrible.

Got to start drug rehab and getting people off of the drug addiction issue. Trump needs to spend on saving lives.

The journalists who are brave in Mexico who trace and expose who these drug dealers are and what they are about? Wind up dead. Mexico is the most dangerous nation on planet Earth for journalists. It is.

So....it is time for change.

Stealing fuel is very common in Mexico. It is expensive and the drug cartels are bloated with stolen money from gasoline.

The new government is working on it. It is working....they cleaned out that corrupt Union boss at the top of the food chain. They are systemically working through the corrupt PEMEX rotten ones. It is a good thing.

These murders are going to be the unification of the USA and Mexico with the investigations. I like that. If they can systemically help contain these Drug Dealing Devils....it would be very good.

The only thing though is that they need to allow all of the kidnapped people who are kidnapped everyday study what the Mormons do and respond with that effectiveness. It is the only way.
#15047378
Tainari88 wrote:Mexican law doesn't allow guns. Period. They are like Japan with the strict ass gun laws.

So gun control is working out great then, eh?

Tainri88 wrote:The Narcs get the guns from the USA and the USA to make profits ship them illegally into Mexico.

Maybe you should build a wall.

Julian658 wrote:Mamy countries with zero gun tolerance have massive gun crime--they buy guns in the black market. Americans like guns to protect themselves from government oppression and crime. The left wants countries with no guns. That is why Venezuelans cannot become free.

That's why they want to take our guns, but it won't happen here. We have more guns than the government does.

Tainari88 wrote:The USA is creating the issue as well with the consumption market for the drugs. And drug gangs are in every major city and small towns with enough of a market too...the USA has to start coping with drugs.

Once again, the number 1 politician opposing drugs is Donald Trump. The Democrats are decriminalizing it, probably having been bribed by the cartels themselves.
#15047395
blackjack21 wrote:So gun control is working out great then, eh?


No, it is not working at all. Mostly because the guns are all illegally obtained mostly by people doing other illegal activities. But flooding a nation with guns doesn't spell low crime Blackjack. Japan has strict gun laws and is not rife with violent gun deaths. It even has organized crime syndicates like the Yakuza but it is not full of common killings of the drug power fights on the public streets. They contain all that kind of problem with a series of implementations that both Mexico and the USA have not followed. They need to study how nations with low gun violence or almost zero drug related crime is doing things and do incredibly dedicated efforts to implement that. Also, BJ, the USA has a lot of guns but it is reduced to a small percentage of people in the USA who own a whole lot of guns. In other words, the majority of American households don't own even a single gun but the ones that do own guns? Have a massive stockpile of them. How is that the effective prevention mechanism for a government oppression takeover? If you are an oppressive American government who wants to take the guns back? You concentrate on the small percentage of the owners who own massive amounts. And the rest of the population never posed a threat. So? How is that the big solution? Most people don't want guns. They don't. It is dangerous around kids and if you own a gun you need to be trained on how to use it Relampaguito. Gun safety and education and storing it safely so it is not around kids.

Also, guns in Mexico are not allowed to be used to protect your personal property. For example, if someone is stealing your cow or your motorcycle or entering your house you can't shoot them for that. They don't think property crime is a death sentence deserving problem. You are allowed to contain or take down the criminal but not kill them. They are strict with it. I had a neighbor here who is from another state. Tabasco. He owned a little ranch there where he raised sheep, cows, horses, chickens, etc. He also ran a towing business and a semi truck repair business. He got a guy going in there stealing his tools and so on....he watched out for the man and used rock salt to apprehend him after the third time the dude tried to steal. He wrestled him to the ground and got him arrested. I asked, "Why did you use rock salt?" He said, can't use real ammo, the government doesn't allow loss of human life over objects or possessions. Thieves just get a fine and have to pay you back for the loss of the property or pay back what they stole with wages earned or confiscating their property and forcing them to sell it off to pay you back. They never endorse killing over property. Never. I asked why not? He shook his head and said, "Mexico is a family oriented nation and we are Roman Catholics, we don't endorse the death penalty, we don't allow abortion, and we don't allow any kind of death regarding property. You respect human life. But the drug dealers and the criminals are getting away with horrors because the elite and the gov't were full of unethical corrupted people who wanted the easy money. People are sick of those bastards. If we don't see change in Mexico with the corruption? They will be vigilante justice like what is happening in some of these towns. The pueblo will take over. The community will become the courts, the cops, and the judges. They need to learn...do the job of processing these criminals or face the ballot box and lose all the elections and no amount of massive fraud will work EVER. We are too angry." INTERESTING.



Maybe you should build a wall.



You can saw through that wall with a $100 dollar saw BJ. They demonstrated how on some youtube.com video. A ladder will work for another $200 bucks. And most guns are shipped to Mexico through the Mexican side BJ. Where they have less enforcement. In trucks, etc. The same neighbor from Tabasco has a friend who drives semi trucks back and forth on the border and he says he is stopped for checking for illegal drugs or guns maybe 1 out of 10 times. That means if you are smuggling them in you are only catching about 10% of the guns and or drugs. Period. It is too massive. Got to get a better system in place. Which for the Mexican government means more money. And when they spend on that? Who is going to work doing that? They kill the border patrol in Mexico who are Mexican if they don't let the corrupt shit happen. The El Rikin types find out who the Mexican cops on the border are who inspect the trucks, etc? They go to their homes or towns and say, Ï will pay you $100,000 dollars a year to let us bring in guns....you will be rich and your family will prosper....or I will go and in the middle of the night rape your wife and daughters, kill your parents too, and all of them and burn you to the ground. What is the choice you have now eh?

This is very complicated stuff BJ. You know it is.

That's why they want to take our guns, but it won't happen here. We have more guns than the government does.


Look at the argument of the reality that the military and the cops and the government has more power than individual citizens. But if the government becomes so horrible that it should be overthrown then the whole thing changes. You got a revolution on your hands. It is very unstable, unpredictable, bloody and that is when all things in an orderly society go to pot. You are talking an extreme situation BJ. It is different than when people are fed up with some bureaucracy. Latin America has had civil wars, and revolutions. They are HORRIBLE. For the locals more than anything else. Then you got racists who don't want them to flee those nations because why? Because they think the USA doesn't have an obligation to help other countries that are in crisis. Mostly generated by the USA's addiction to drugs and guns.

Once again, the number 1 politician opposing drugs is Donald Trump. The Democrats are decriminalizing it, probably having been bribed by the cartels themselves.


He is an asshole. He has not spent real money on drug addiction rehab. He has not spent on infrastructure of the big bucks he said he would. If he got the bridges, roads, and airports, etc in better physical shape, paid the TSA employees, etc. not underfund a bunch of critical departments for bettering everything he might have some moral ground to stand on. He has not spent the money on treating the massive drug addiction problem that the USA has.

BJ, have you read the drug thread in this forum? How many American people, Canadian people, Europeans etc are a bunch of drug addled people dependent on drugs in this world? WHY DO THEY NEED THE DAMN DRUGS? Find out. Treat the cause. The root cause. Because until those societal lacks are addressed? This shit is isn't going away. It is not!!
#15047397
Tainari88 wrote:Finfinder, there is a drug war going in Puerto Rico. The lack of funds for paying cops has meant that cops can't feed their families and they moved to the USA en masse. Puerto Rico (San Juan) had thousands of police. I think they lost about 20,000 cops out of an island of about 3.5 million people. They only have about 7,000 remaining. You can't run a country or a nation on zero public funds to pay fire fighters, teachers, nurses, cops...your society will fall apart. The drug war is not good.

The USA is creating the issue as well with the consumption market for the drugs. And drug gangs are in every major city and small towns with enough of a market too...the USA has to start coping with drugs. It is leading to incredibly violent horrors in Latin America because poverty is the attraction. Both Puerto Rico and Mexico have strong laws against owning guns in general. But it is not working. Because of the poverty and the lack of decent working wages, crime and corruption. You have to have a disincentive for the violence. If the money being generated by the drug addicts in the USA is incredibly high? It is horrible.

Got to start drug rehab and getting people off of the drug addiction issue. Trump needs to spend on saving lives.

The journalists who are brave in Mexico who trace and expose who these drug dealers are and what they are about? Wind up dead. Mexico is the most dangerous nation on planet Earth for journalists. It is.

So....it is time for change.

Stealing fuel is very common in Mexico. It is expensive and the drug cartels are bloated with stolen money from gasoline.

The new government is working on it. It is working....they cleaned out that corrupt Union boss at the top of the food chain. They are systemically working through the corrupt PEMEX rotten ones. It is a good thing.

These murders are going to be the unification of the USA and Mexico with the investigations. I like that. If they can systemically help contain these Drug Dealing Devils....it would be very good.

The only thing though is that they need to allow all of the kidnapped people who are kidnapped everyday study what the Mormons do and respond with that effectiveness. It is the only way.



The first issue is PR I'm not sure what to do or say except they should have their independence. Corruption in PR is the biggest problem how is that on the USA to fix?


I just don't agree bad people exist because people do drugs. Gangs in Mexico exist because like in PR they have no law and order. If drugs did not exist they would still be killing infant babies.

Why is it that rehab cost $30 k for 3 months with no guarantees. The government run rehab centers wait, wait, for this, have waiting lists to get into. Is that not foreshadowing. I have often said rehab centers should be as plentiful as convenience stores.

Over all you sound like you should be rooting for Trump, is it not socially acceptable ? Build a wall gain control of the borders in concert with Mexico. Can you name current politicians who have done more for PR and Latin people? Seriously more I think about it you have the same fighting spirit as Trump I do not mean that as a put down either.
#15047415
Finfinder wrote:The first issue is PR I'm not sure what to do or say except they should have their independence. Corruption in PR is the biggest problem how is that on the USA to fix?


I just don't agree bad people exist because people do drugs. Gangs in Mexico exist because like in PR they have no law and order. If drugs did not exist they would still be killing infant babies.

Why is it that rehab cost $30 k for 3 months with no guarantees. The government run rehab centers wait, wait, for this, have waiting lists to get into. Is that not foreshadowing. I have often said rehab centers should be as plentiful as convenience stores.

Over all you sound like you should be rooting for Trump, is it not socially acceptable ? Build a wall gain control of the borders in concert with Mexico. Can you name current politicians who have done more for PR and Latin people? Seriously more I think about it you have the same fighting spirit as Trump I do not mean that as a put down either.


Fin I lived in Puerto Rico half of my adult life. Then I spent a lot of time in Mexico too. Mostly working or touring. In almost every Mexican state. I know both nations well. I hate drug problems with a passion that is very deep. Why? Because Puerto Rico has drug addicts everywhere dying like flies. There is hardly any Puerto Rican family that has not suffered some family member dying from drug overdoses or problems. My second cousin's son died of an OD at age 35 and he created massive problems for my husband and I. Puerto Rico is full of drug addicted people. They are absolutely the worst people to have in terms of creating problems for the rest of a society. The worst. They can't hold jobs for any length of time, they are irresponsible in the extreme, they lie all the damn time, they cheat, they steal even from their own mothers, they murder people for not having money in their wallets.

I am going to tell you a real life story that happened to me when I was in an Honors English class in Puerto Rico....My father calls me at a classroom from a wall phone with a cord because it was the mid nineteen eighties and back then no cell phones were in popular use. Anyway, he tells me that some drug addicts had climbed over the air conditioning unit in our one bedroom apartment in Santurce, and one was in a car waiting for the robbery to end and the other one came in with a machete and threatened to slit my father's throat if he did not give him something he can pawn or sell off or money....my father had three dollars in his wallet. No television, no electronics, no big appliances of any value. Nothing of jewelry and some cologne and some new shoes I had got him for father's day. Lol. The criminal was angry enough over coming up empty handed to have slit my father's throat. My father stalled with some very funny tactics, that if I wrote what he did I would laugh hard. And I would cry hard too because I still miss my beloved father...anyway, I digress, the drug addicted burglar was getting ready to kill my father when the doorbell rang....the other guy told him to get out of there it might be a cop and he left in a hurry empty handed. It was the postman. He was delivering some books my father had ordered in the mail. And the mailman saved my father's life.

Crime in Puerto Rico in my husband's neighborhood was violent and bloody, they had a little plaque in the plaza where the victims names were etched into stone, after a while there was no room for any more names and they stopped putting the names up....it was out of control the drug distribution points. Machine gun shots everywhere....at night. My husband's neighborhood was full of fire fights between drug dealers and drug pushers....and drug addicts...it has made of Puerto Rico a very unsafe place to live Fin. Why? Puerto Rico is ideal for a jumping off point from South America, Central America and Miami and the Eastern Seaboard states. It is a central point for sending the drugs to the states from their principal growing regions. I have read up on the challenges the DEA has in enforcing drug enforcement in Puerto Rico. It is complicated and not easy to solve. I have a very beautiful cousin who is about 40 years old who has worked for Homeland security in San Juan for many years since her mid twenties. She enforces the law on the coasts in Puerto Rico. She stops illegal entries from Haitians and Dominicans on rafts who enter Puerto Rican waters....she stops drugs and guns. But she tells me it is like a drop in a bucket. They got high speed boats that go all night very fast and they hide things in dozens of islets in the coast...the USA mainland hates spending more on Puerto Rico to secure the borders as it does on other states. We are not a state. So we don't have a right to equal amounts of money. There are so many nuances to all this Fin. If you truly want me to explore the entire topic with you thoroughly with stats and graphs...you let me know. I used to be a moderator on an all Puerto Rican forum about Puerto Rico only and I did a very long thread on DEA in Puerto Rico and we went at it for months. It was very informative.

Let me know...I got to go....but will be back to address your other concerns.

Mexico is another country with other issues. Other politics and another history. Totally different than Puerto Rico's. I say that because you got to study each case with drug enforcement issues separately. They have different dynamics.

Be back later Fin if you want to keep going with the topic. It is important for sure to discuss this. ;)
#15047423
Finfinder wrote:Absolutely would love your insight. I'd rather stay away from spending a lot of time discussing the personality of president Trump if thats ok.


Lol. If you don't want Trump bashing and all that? I will respect your wishes. Think of questions about drug trafficking problems in Mexico or Puerto Rico you are curious about? And I will explore it with you? Also, if I don't know it? Will look up information that I find eh? But I went at it for months with a Puerto Rican liberal cop from New Jersey that all he did was drug enforcement in New Jersey for 25 years....and he and I posted for months. It was an education on drug enforcement. Interesting.
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