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User avatar
By drguitar
#15060181
So we all know Donald Trump as a consistent and unrelenting liar. That is a fact backed up by a lifetime of his lying on nearly any subject without regard to importance. He lies in office; The Washington Post has his count at over 15,000 lies in just 1000 days (averaging about 15 lies to the public per day). When world leaders are questioned about Donald Trump's veracity, the nearly uniform answer is that no one can take his statements as having any merit (although Vladimir Putin seems to think of Trump as honest).

So the question is, does anyone believe Donald Trump is an honest man, one whose word you can take as fact? And for those who would say "yes", do you believe you are also an honest person?

To be clear here, this post is not about bashing Donald Trump. I do not want to see endless rhetoric or conjecture about "Trump is this or that". This is only about his honesty when he speaks and whether we no longer are interested "as a country" on whether our leaders speak any truth and whether that even matters to any of us.
Last edited by drguitar on 20 Jan 2020 02:55, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By drguitar
#15060333
I find it interesting that none of the regulars that side with Trump feel comfortable coming to his side when it comes to his level of dishonesty.
Does this mean that folks who normally support Trump are also put off by his level of daily lying? And if so, how can you support a President you cannot trust?
By Patrickov
#15060361
drguitar wrote:And if so, how can you support a President you cannot trust?


Simple. His actions, or the consequences of them, speak much louder than his words.

I do not see Obama paid much effort exposing how vulnerable China is. Trump, with his trade war, has.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15060362
drguitar wrote:To be clear here, this post is not about bashing Donald Trump. I do not want to see endless rhetoric or conjecture about "Trump is this or that".


That's utter bullshit, considering the fact that you included this in your whine-laden post:

"So we all know Donald Trump as a consistent and unrelenting liar. That is a fact backed up by a lifetime of his lying on nearly any subject without regard to importance."

That is nothing but endless rhetoric and conjecture.

The reason you're getting no responses is that you make it clear you're only going to accept replies which mesh with yours.

Rather childish of you...
User avatar
By colliric
#15060369
The same people who believe Ronald Reagan was an actor.

He lies? So?

Every politician lies! He just let's everyone know he's lying.... It's his thing. He's a good salesman.
By late
#15060448
Patrickov wrote:
I do not see Obama paid much effort exposing how vulnerable China is. Trump, with his trade war, has.



Obama was aware of the many consequences of acting like an idiot.
#15060469
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/tru ... -research/

    Scientists Are Trying to Figure Out Why People Are OK with Trump’s Endless Supply of Lies

    Researchers have answers—and they don’t bode well for democracy
    By Rene Chun -November 14, 2019

    On November 6, while monitoring a Trump rally in Monroe, Louisiana, CNN fact-checking reporter Daniel Dale tweeted: “He is saying false/misleading/bizarre things in rapid succession, faster than I can type.” From the Ukraine scandal and the impeachment inquiry to chain migration and Chinese tariffs, the lies and unsubstantiated claims piled up like dirty laundry in a locker room.

    All of those lies have already been uploaded to the Washington Post’s Fact Checker’s database. According to this lie detector in the sky, which has a time line that stretches back to Inauguration Day, Donald Trump is fast approaching an astounding milestone: 14,000 “false or misleading claims.” That’s an average of 22 lies a day, putting Trump in Munchausen territory.

    An avalanche of falsehoods like that would usually kill any chance of a president winning a second term. That’s because the one thing that will drive presidential approval ratings south is lying to the American public. Trump, however, has been immune to this axiom.

    Despite all the proven scandals and alleged high crimes and misdemeanors, despite the many strategic political blunders (foreign and domestic), despite the barrage of ongoing federal, state and congressional investigations (at least 16), Trump’s approval ratings have remained remarkably stable throughout his first term. After adjusting for the usual confounders that skew each individual approval poll—things like quality, recency, sample size, and partisan bias—Trump’s numbers have yet to dip below the low 40s.

    Even more startling than the sheer number of POTUS lies is how brazen many of them have been. Dig deeper into this political phenomenon and something odd and counterintuitive emerges: Many people know that Trump is lying to them and simply don’t care. This raises a fascinating question: Could the president extricate himself from the Ukraine quid-pro-quo scandal, the linchpin of the current impeachment proceedings, by spewing one lie after another?

    According to the academic paper Processing Political Misinformation: Comprehending the Trump Phenomenon, the answer is yes. Conducted prior to the 2016 presidential election, the study focuses on credibility experiments. Subjects were asked to rate their belief in eight statements (four true, four false) that Trump made during his campaign. Some were attributed to him: “Donald Trump said that vaccines cause autism.” Others had no attribution: “Vaccines cause autism.” Then came the fact checks. After false items were corrected and true items confirmed, the test subjects rerated the statements.

    One of the findings confirmed what every FOX and MSNBC pundit already knows. When subjects first rated the veracity of true and false statements, Republican supporters of Trump believed the claim more when it was attributed to Trump; the opposite was true of Democrats. Republicans who were not pro Trump also believed less in statements attributed to him (but not to the same degree as Democrats), while their belief in the false statements was not influenced by attribution.

    The other key finding is less obvious. There was a large bipartisan shift in belief after the fact check, suggesting that both conservatives and liberals can change their minds if they’re presented with convincing, unbiased information. But there was a catch: After a one-week delay, subjects partially “rebelieved” the false statements and partially forgot that factual information was true. Or, to quote the study: “Even if individuals update their beliefs temporarily, explanations regarding both fact and fiction seemingly have an expiration date.”


    None of this bodes well for American democracy. Keep in mind it was impossible for the test subjects to avoid all those fact checks. How many swing state voters are actually monitoring watchdog sites like FactCheck.org or Politifact.com? The last sentence in the study’s abstract sounds more like a 2020 warning than a clinical observation: “These findings suggest that people use political figures as a heuristic to guide evaluation of what is true or false, yet do not necessarily insist on veracity as a prerequisite for supporting political candidates.”

    The same research team has already “replicated and extended” this original work. The title of their new study, published this year in Political Psychology, strikes the perfect balance between the corner bar and the ivory tower: They Might Be a Liar, but They’re My Liar: Source Evaluation and the Prevalence of Misinformation. Dr. Briony Swire-Thompson, the lead author on both papers, told me that while the data is consistent, more research will be required before a unified field theory on mendacious politicians is ready for peer review. “We’re still trying to tease apart the mechanisms behind the phenomenon,” says Swire-Thompson, “but it is likely to be far more complicated than simple tribalism.”

    .....

The rest of the article focuses on scientific research into Trump’s lies and why people love them.
User avatar
By BigSteve
#15060470
I believe he's honest.

After all, he "honestly" doesn't give a shit what the idiot left thinks of him...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
#15060587
late wrote:
Obama was aware of the many consequences of acting like an idiot.


... as illustrated by Trump, which exposed a bigger idiot, Xi Jinping (and the CCP, or even the Chinese (who wanted to regrab their past not-so-entitled glory), as a whole). Period.
By late
#15060594
Patrickov wrote:
Period.



You wish.

Foreign affairs is painfully complicated. China was working with us to restrain North Korea, before Trump. China has a very difficult relationship with NK, that limits what they can do.

China was also working in other areas. They have a new IP court, and it's not great, but America has it's own IP problems, and both need more work. But they did respond, and got better.

Trump is a massive screwup, and China never forgets.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15060601
Fools conned by Trump believe him because they will appear to be even bigger fools if they admit to their foolish trust in a pathological liar, who makes even other politicians look honest, by comparison.

President Trump has made 13,435 false or misleading claims over 993 days
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... over-days/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_ ... nald_Trump
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15060628
I don't think Trump's honesty or credibility or morality are important at all to voters.

He's fun to watch on TV. Case closed.

If Hillary had been more 'fun to watch on TV' she could have been nuking Russia by now, and Americans would be all smiles.
User avatar
By drguitar
#15060694
BigSteve wrote:That's utter bullshit, considering the fact that you included this in your whine-laden post:

"So we all know Donald Trump as a consistent and unrelenting liar. That is a fact backed up by a lifetime of his lying on nearly any subject without regard to importance."

That is nothing but endless rhetoric and conjecture.

The reason you're getting no responses is that you make it clear you're only going to accept replies which mesh with yours.

Rather childish of you...


No conjecture, no rhetoric. Everything I stated is verifiable fact... everything. And I particularly do not want replies that "mesh with mine". I want to understand what folks think about Trump's endless and consistent lying. I don't care about his policies {positive or negative}. I just want to know what everyone thinks about his inability to speak honestly as a matter of self discipline and moral responsibility.

Childish? No. But your response seems extremely naive about Trump's lack of honesty and it's effects on political discourse.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15060931
“I’m honest,” Impeached President Trump @ Davos. ( :eek: :lol: ) Glad he keeps reminding the world what a joke he is.
User avatar
By Finfinder
#15060951
I find it interesting that every major Democrat presidential candidate is implicated in a pay to play and or enriching their families from their position of power and then lying about. AND You wouldn't even know it reading this forum. That is honesty LOL :roll: :D
User avatar
By Code Rood
#15060952
QatzelOk wrote:I don't think Trump's honesty or credibility or morality are important at all to voters.

He's fun to watch on TV. Case closed.

If Hillary had been more 'fun to watch on TV' she could have been nuking Russia by now, and Americans would be all smiles.


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