House Manager Jerry Nadler Correctly Calls Trump A Dictator - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15061474
Jerry Nadler calling a spade a spade. Trump is America's first dictator. The republic is gone and been swept away.

CNN wrote:Nadler calls Trump a 'dictator' during Senate trial
House manager Jerry Nadler closed out his remarks this afternoon with some of the most fiery language that's been heard so far directed at President Trump, calling him "a dictator."

The New York Democrat said Trump is the "first and only president ever to declare himself unaccountable and to ignore subpoenas backed by the Constitution's impeachment power."

He continued: "If he is not removed from office, if he is permitted to defy the Congress entirely, categorically, to say the subpoenas from Congress in the impeachment inquiry are nonsense, then we will have lost, the House will have lost, the Senate certainly will have lost, all power to hold any president accountable."

Nadler said Trump "wants to be all powerful. He does not have to respect the Congress. He does not have to rescue the representatives of the people. Only his will goes."


https://www.cnn.com/webview/politics/li ... 6022fb5270
#15061499
Politics_Observer wrote:Jerry Nadler calling a spade a spade. Trump is America's first dictator. The republic is gone and been swept away.



https://www.cnn.com/webview/politics/li ... 6022fb5270
Mostly because people have not done the right and quick thing to stop dictators.

Ironically, that very needed thing was demonstrated by none other than Trump himself.

EDIT: I think I was wrong. Before Trump was elected there was a boy trying to do "that" on his rally, only to be arrested swiftly.
#15061790
Politics_Observer wrote:Trump is America's first dictator. The republic is gone and been swept away.

America's dictators have been during war time. Lincoln was America's first dictator. He suspended habeas corpus illegally (a power reserved to Congress), violated a treaty with the Sioux because he was short on funds, conducted the largest mass hanging in American history to put down the Sioux rebellion, employed generals like William Tecumseh Sherman to wage total war on the South, etc. He was ultimately shot and killed for his deeds, but is remembered for saving the union.

Woodrow Wilson re-segregated the military and federal government offices, made "Birth of a Nation" the first movie to be shown in the White House, used the Espionage Act and the Sedition Act to crush German and Irish Americans, and socialists and communists (people like pretty much everyone running in the Democratic presidential primaries, AOC, Tlaib, Pressley and Omar). He forbade criticizing the US government during war time. He shutdown at least 75 periodicals to that end. In his book Congressional Government, Wilson criticized the separation of powers. Wilson's idols were Abraham Lincoln (America's first dictator) and Otto von Bismarck. Wilson was noted to say, "Men are as clay in the hands of the consummate leader" and "I am an advocate of peace, but there are some splendid things that come to a nation through the discipline of war." Wilson created America's first propaganda department with the Committee on Public Information. Wilson created a precursor to the Gestapo with the American Protective League to spy in war protesters and draft dodgers and get them arrested. They arrested over 50k people in the New York metropolitan area alone. Later they went on with the Palmer raids after the war.

You think Trump doesn't like immigrants? Try this one from Woodrow Wilson, "The gravest threats against our national peace and safety have been uttered within our own borders. There are citizens of the United States, I blush to admit, born under other flags…who have poured the poison of disloyalty into the very arteries of our national life; who have sought to bring the authority and good name of our Government into contempt, to destroy our industries wherever they thought it effective for their vindictive purposes…." His War Industries Board served as a template for Mussolini and Hitler's corporatist/fascist governments.

In fact, if you had said this stuff you're saying here under Wilson, you'd be in jail right now. The ACLU was founded precisely to fight what Woodrow Wilson wrought.

FDR was also a dictator. He created concentration camps for Japanese-Americans among other things. It's frankly ludicrous to compare Trump to these people.
#15061795
@blackjack21

Well, I can't argue with you blackjack21. You make a legitimate and fair point. This isn't the first time stuff like this has happened in our country's history. I guess we like to think we are somehow "different" or "exceptional" to everybody else, but at the end of the day, we are no different or "exceptional" than anybody else around the world. We like to see ourselves as "freedom loving people" and I think we are, but so is everybody else around the world and we have the same problems with tyranny and oppression as everybody else does around the world. In some respects, we are not so unique and "different" as anybody else around the world too. I guess if I lived in the Woodrow Wilson era, I had best "fall in line," keep my mouth shut and not bring attention to myself if I didn't want to go to jail or branded somehow. Governments will do that.
#15061799
Politics_Observer wrote:@blackjack21

Well, I can't argue with you blackjack21. You make a legitimate and fair point. This isn't the first time stuff like this has happened in our country's history. I guess we like to think we are somehow "different" or "exceptional" to everybody else, but at the end of the day, we are no different or "exceptional" than anybody else around the world. We like to see ourselves as "freedom loving people" and I think we are, but so is everybody else around the world and we have the same problems with tyranny and oppression as everybody else does around the world. In some respects, we are not so unique and "different" as anybody else around the world too. I guess if I lived in the Woodrow Wilson era, I had best "fall in line," keep my mouth shut and not bring attention to myself if I didn't want to go to jail or branded somehow. Governments will do that.


Human beings are human beings. All one species. That is why being a racist, a class conscious idiot and thinking that Americans (who come from every race, creed and ethnic group known to the planet) are not the exception to anything in human history. What makes change happen for the positive is the value system you choose to implement and not allowing something innately unfair and self destructive to be the guiding principle of your economy or your social structures. If you do? No attempts at an advanced and fair society can ever be achieved. You got to give people security, got to give them good values and the government needs to be always criticized and checked at all times for abuses of power....it is ongoing project Politics Observer for all of us humans.
#15061806
@Tainari88

Tainari88 wrote:thinking that Americans (who come from every race, creed and ethnic group known to the planet) are not the exception to anything in human history.


I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that Americans are an exception because we have every race, creed and ethnic group known to the planet that are citizens? I am not sure if that somehow necessarily makes us "exceptional" or "different" from others around the globe. Other countries have vast diversity too.
#15061808
Indy wrote:Jerry Nadler (and Schiff and Pelosi) represent everything that's bad with American politics.


I don't like those folks either, but Trump and his ilk are not better at all. Lol.

Thinking Trump is the panacea to that swampy horror of horrors is being naive and foolish in the extreme.
#15061812
Politics_Observer wrote:@Tainari88



I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that Americans are an exception because we have every race, creed and ethnic group known to the planet that are citizens? I am not sure if that somehow necessarily makes us "exceptional" or "different" from others around the globe. Other countries have vast diversity too.


What I am saying is that human beings are all one species. Homo Sapiens. It means we share a vast set of behavioral and adaptational characteristics with the vast majority of other humans in other societies. We have the same type of needs. We have many ways of coping that are similar.

What varies are the value systems that are pushed and shaped. You study the history of power in human recorded history and before that as well and look for patterns.

I love an episode of that Netflix series "Cooked" in which the host Bitterman (I am not sure about the name) but he examines how Americans started accepting bad diets in which the food industry wanted to get people to buy more fast food to make more money. They painted the idea of cooking at home as laborious and drudgery, woman's work, sexist, boring, difficult, etc. Because the end goal was to get people to eat fast food and high profit food that is easy to make, consume and buy and boost their profits. To hell if it created diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc in large quantities....the thing was make MONEY.

In the episode of the "Cooked"series Politics Observer they interview a baker in the Äir episode. They do a thorough analysis of why bread has been the staff of life for many civilizations for centuries and why now it is becoming intolerable for many people to digest. Because they have changed the way they make bread. They have not respected the way it should be made to cut corners and choose to disrespect that wheat process in order to make a fast buck. They 'betrayed' the process nature has of dealing with food. I studied a lot of ancient civvies, all of them had a very interesting component. They had a perfect food source and could store that food source well for many months and could dedicate themselves to building all their civilizations because the hours in the day were freed up by the stored food processes.

It is a microcosm of what is wrong with American values Political Observer. What are the values? Respecting food as a source of life? Respecting not polluting the water sources one has in this world because it is a source of life? Realizing that people need time to cook and be with their families and not be working two jobs and never seeing their spouses or children except for a few hours a week? Spending time in front of a computer screen instead of living breathing people whom you profess to love but you rarely talk to face-to-face? Alienated people who decide to go off and kill college students or kids in a school as a way to make their mark in the world? Because their lives are isolated, empty without friends, lovers, spouses or meaningful things to make them feel they are doing something worthy of their efforts?

The answers lie in the value systems people emphasize and accept in their lives.

The American way of life is a human value system. But it has painted itself as the society others need to imitate. It is not a society worthy of imitation Politics Observer...because it doesn't promote respect for other societies'ways of doing things...they believe in dominaton and imposition. You can't do that in human history. It leads to bad things. All great and true processes in human beings are all internally driven and sought, not externally imposed from afar....it is the difference between being truly free to choose or to live in slavery.

Which would you prefer in the end? I choose being free.
#15061815
blackjack21 wrote:America's dictators have been during war time. Lincoln was America's first dictator. He suspended habeas corpus illegally (a power reserved to Congress), violated a treaty with the Sioux because he was short on funds, conducted the largest mass hanging in American history to put down the Sioux rebellion, employed generals like William Tecumseh Sherman to wage total war on the South, etc. He was ultimately shot and killed for his deeds, but is remembered for saving the union.

Woodrow Wilson re-segregated the military and federal government offices, made "Birth of a Nation" the first movie to be shown in the White House, used the Espionage Act and the Sedition Act to crush German and Irish Americans, and socialists and communists (people like pretty much everyone running in the Democratic presidential primaries, AOC, Tlaib, Pressley and Omar). He forbade criticizing the US government during war time. He shutdown at least 75 periodicals to that end. In his book Congressional Government, Wilson criticized the separation of powers. Wilson's idols were Abraham Lincoln (America's first dictator) and Otto von Bismarck. Wilson was noted to say, "Men are as clay in the hands of the consummate leader" and "I am an advocate of peace, but there are some splendid things that come to a nation through the discipline of war." Wilson created America's first propaganda department with the Committee on Public Information. Wilson created a precursor to the Gestapo with the American Protective League to spy in war protesters and draft dodgers and get them arrested. They arrested over 50k people in the New York metropolitan area alone. Later they went on with the Palmer raids after the war.

You think Trump doesn't like immigrants? Try this one from Woodrow Wilson, "The gravest threats against our national peace and safety have been uttered within our own borders. There are citizens of the United States, I blush to admit, born under other flags…who have poured the poison of disloyalty into the very arteries of our national life; who have sought to bring the authority and good name of our Government into contempt, to destroy our industries wherever they thought it effective for their vindictive purposes…." His War Industries Board served as a template for Mussolini and Hitler's corporatist/fascist governments.

In fact, if you had said this stuff you're saying here under Wilson, you'd be in jail right now. The ACLU was founded precisely to fight what Woodrow Wilson wrought.

FDR was also a dictator. He created concentration camps for Japanese-Americans among other things. It's frankly ludicrous to compare Trump to these people.


You know Blackjack21 when you wax historical I really like it! LOL.

The Buddhists and the Marxists know humans are about the dialectic and the mixture of both dark and light in human nature. Nothing is simple and simplistic. It is far more complex than you can imagine.

But Trump's issue is being unpredictable my man. No one disciplined that man child to be predictable and be able to give some kind of predictability to the deep state people to keep on doing what they do in comfort and security.

A serious flaw of Trump's. For sure.

Unlike you I don't think that pig is going to save your Republic at all. ;)
#15061834
@Tainari88 @blackjack21

Yeah, one of the things I saw while serving in the Army during war time was how more power got concentrated in the executive branch. During war time, especially if you are serving in the armed forces, your government will demand unconditional loyalty and you better fall in line. If you don't, you risk execution, prison and/or being branded a traitor and a social outcast from your country for the rest of your life. There is no room for free thinking or questioning authority in those circumstances and it won't be tolerated. You just fall in line and do as your told and pray that you get home alive from the whole mess with a good record. You follow some of the rules a lot more seriously and take the rules more seriously too given the consequences involved.
#15061842
Politics_Observer wrote:@Tainari88 @blackjack21

Yeah, one of the things I saw while serving in the Army during war time was how more power got concentrated in the executive branch. During war time, especially if you are serving in the armed forces, your government will demand unconditional loyalty and you better fall in line. If you don't, you risk execution, prison and/or being branded a traitor and a social outcast from your country for the rest of your life. There is no room for free thinking or questioning authority in those circumstances and it won't be tolerated. You just fall in line and do as your told and pray that you get home alive from the whole mess with a good record. You follow some of the rules a lot more seriously and take the rules more seriously too given the consequences involved.


Politics Observer again Smedley Butler was a general in the Marine Corps of the USA. He said that the dollar comes first and the flag and the military intervention comes afterwards. In the Roman times it was similar. None of Roman soldiers had the option of disobeying the orders of the Ceasars. Power relationships in Empires are very cut and dried in many ways. Obedience and serving to the death. They used to get paid in salt from Mesopotamia that is where the world salary comes from. Your salt you traded for your basic needs. Since soldiers weren't farmers or tradespeople they relied on salt as a way of paying for things they needed.

In the ancient world it was a way of living. El salario. The salt ration.

I don't blame honorable military people. They are doing their duty. But the military people are the most conscious of all at how horrible and high the cost of war is for a nation. They are interested in preserving the lives of the people under their command. The old chicken hawks and bullshit politicians who sleep well at night sending young people to die in some Iraqi desert far from hearth and home are the ones one has to fear...to them? It is just a game, and they don't care about the consequences. If they did? They would not engage in Empire building in the first place. it is a bad proposition. You can't control societies from afar that you don't actually commit fully to.....you have no right to expect to influence societies whom you treat like shit...no one likes that and very few people respect arrogant foreigners lording it over them in their own ancestral lands and whom are outsiders who don't really respect them as equals in anything.

To think they owe some foreign army their loyalty because the USA is gonna teach them democracy when their own government is a piece of shit contradictions is foolish in the extreme.
#15061844
Tainari88 wrote:I don't like those folks either, but Trump and his ilk are not better at all. Lol.


Sure they are.

Trump hasn't spent over 30 years sucking off the government teat like Nancy Pelosi and others have. At this point they're far more interested in self preservation than anything else.

Also, I don't understand why, when we want to investigate a rich guy who becomes President we ignore those who become fabulously wealthy while performing public service. Pelosi makes $223K a year. In 2015 her personal net worth was over $100 million. If anything deserves an investigation it's that. By contrast, Florida Senator Marco Rubio had a net worth of only $271,000 in 2015.

Thinking Trump is the panacea to that swampy horror of horrors is being naive and foolish in the extreme.


I never suggested such.

But we're in a pretty good place with regards to our economy and unemployment. Any honest assessment of where we are now would conclude that we are better off, overall, now than we were at this same point in Obama's Presidency.
#15061850
Indy wrote:Sure they are.

Trump hasn't spent over 30 years sucking off the government teat like Nancy Pelosi and others have. At this point they're far more interested in self preservation than anything else.

Also, I don't understand why, when we want to investigate a rich guy who becomes President we ignore those who become fabulously wealthy while performing public service. Pelosi makes $223K a year. In 2015 her personal net worth was over $100 million. If anything deserves an investigation it's that. By contrast, Florida Senator Marco Rubio had a net worth of only $271,000 in 2015.



I never suggested such.

But we're in a pretty good place with regards to our economy and unemployment. Any honest assessment of where we are now would conclude that we are better off, overall, now than we were at this same point in Obama's Presidency.


I don't give a damn about those Pelosi types in gov't or the Republican corrupt sellouts. Both are people without a moral leg to stand on.

They all need to be forced out. All of them. None of them are interested in the public good. If you voted for that asshole President 45 you are part of the problem as well.

Choosing between two evils when you should be trying to root out the cause of so much dysfunction.

But no....somehow the ones voting for Trump hate liberals so much they think everyone thinks the same tunnel two way way...when in the whole big wide world of international politics? There are a lot more shades of the political rainbow than just black and white or you Indy fail to realize that the two major parties just pay lip service to 'real differences'. They are both bought off corrupt freaks drunk on power plays and fail to serve the American public.

When that happens you deep eighty six both parties and either have a total cleansing or you will wind up with a failed state with embedded weak willed spineless cowards who sell their nation out to the highest bidder...but the ones thinking those wealthy repulsive liberals are the only ones on the take?

Please.
#15061884
Politics_Observer wrote:This isn't the first time stuff like this has happened in our country's history.

As a country, America is based on its state and federal constitutions. People lament Trump as some sort of racist. He is positively tolerant compared to almost all of our past presidents. While Wilson was excessively harsh on immigrants because of their immigrant status, he was also right that America faced serious risks from within by adopting so many people so fast--mostly from Europe. Immigration was effectively suspended until 1965. Since then, the makeup of America has shifted dramatically, and again we have foreign born and first generation Americans calling for radical changes to the American system. If it is to survive, the globalism and mass immigration has to stop until social cohesion is restored.

Politics_Observer wrote:I guess we like to think we are somehow "different" or "exceptional" to everybody else, but at the end of the day, we are no different or "exceptional" than anybody else around the world. We like to see ourselves as "freedom loving people" and I think we are, but so is everybody else around the world and we have the same problems with tyranny and oppression as everybody else does around the world.

America's founding was peculiar in global politics. The colonies were populated with religious outcasts--Catholics, Puritans, Quakers, etc. who didn't toe the line of the Church of England; and, prisoners whether criminal or debtors. It also had a lot of second born sons of nobility who would not inherit title or land, but were educated and had some means--often taking clerical positions in government or commissioned officers in the military. So all of those people were fond of freedom for totally different reasons. Of the latter of that group, they were particularly interested in property rights. England had probably the most democratic system in Europe at the time, but it was nothing like universal suffrage. Britain had indentured servitude up until the 1920s. That's only 100 years ago. Europe as a whole had a nobility/aristocracy, a small middle class of clerks, bureaucrats, men at arms, scholars, merchants and tradesman, and pretty much everyone else was poor with little or no real property (mostly no real property) and modest personal property. The conquest of America gave all of those people a real shot at land ownership and political franchise that they didn't have in Europe. In that sense, America offered something very different from what Europe had to offer.

Tainari88 wrote:That is why being a racist, a class conscious idiot and thinking that Americans (who come from every race, creed and ethnic group known to the planet) are not the exception to anything in human history.

America in that sense isn't based on race at all. It's based on meritocracy and private property.

Tainari88 wrote:What makes change happen for the positive is the value system you choose to implement and not allowing something innately unfair and self destructive to be the guiding principle of your economy or your social structures.

What you consider unfair is something many people in the world have adopted, much of which was born in America or in the UK.

Tainari88 wrote:No attempts at an advanced and fair society can ever be achieved.

Advanced and fair are entirely different concepts. iPhones are advanced, but it's not fair that they are made by underpaid Chinese labor. These things coexist.

Tainari88 wrote:You got to give people security

Fledgling America could not do that, but it gave people the right to keep and bear arms and provide for their own personal security as well as collective security.

Tainari88 wrote:got to give them good values

America was founded by Christians of various stripes. America made the decision to maintain a separation of church and state. However, the founders expected people to have a moral character, which is largely discouraged by today's government.

Tainari88 wrote:the government needs to be always criticized and checked at all times for abuses of power.

It really didn't need that in the past, because it was a very minimal government. By today's standards, we'd be firing about 85% of government workers and cutting taxes by about the same to be where they were. Excise taxes were uniform and capitations apportioned. Rich and poor paid the same tax and had the same interest in government. Today, the rich pay overwhelmingly more than anyone else, and are therefore the most interested in government. You may think that it is "moral" for the rich to pay more than the poor, or for the rich to help the poor. Enacting that "fairness" via a graduated income tax creates people who are interested in government and people who are not.

Tainari88 wrote:I love an episode of that Netflix series "Cooked" in which the host Bitterman (I am not sure about the name) but he examines how Americans started accepting bad diets in which the food industry wanted to get people to buy more fast food to make more money. They painted the idea of cooking at home as laborious and drudgery, woman's work, sexist, boring, difficult, etc. Because the end goal was to get people to eat fast food and high profit food that is easy to make, consume and buy and boost their profits. To hell if it created diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc in large quantities....the thing was make MONEY.

Part of that is because there were large pockets of America where people were poor. When you think about value for money, a McDonald's hamburger is an amazing value. It's just not the ideal meal to be eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner. After getting e-coli and norovirus simultaneously at Thanksgiving, I'm a little leery of salads right now. However, I've taken up making soups. It is a bit of labor if you're doing it for one meal and one person, but soup lasts quite some time and you can vacuum pack it too. It's a great way to get all your veggies.

Tainari88 wrote:They do a thorough analysis of why bread has been the staff of life for many civilizations for centuries and why now it is becoming intolerable for many people to digest. Because they have changed the way they make bread. They have not respected the way it should be made to cut corners and choose to disrespect that wheat process in order to make a fast buck. They 'betrayed' the process nature has of dealing with food.

See? Deep inside of Azuquita is a conservative just waiting to come out. He he he!

Tainari88 wrote:I studied a lot of ancient civvies, all of them had a very interesting component. They had a perfect food source and could store that food source well for many months and could dedicate themselves to building all their civilizations because the hours in the day were freed up by the stored food processes.

This is exactly right. As I've said before, you'll notice that the harsher the environmental conditions, the more people had to rely on stored foods--particularly in the harsh winters of the North.

Tainari88 wrote:Respecting food as a source of life? Respecting not polluting the water sources one has in this world because it is a source of life?

It's not all about respect and disrespect. Much of it is about science and industrialism. Reducing all food down to sugars, proteins and fats as a chemical abstraction, scientists don't see or respect culture. However, that's not their teaching. A lot of industrialists were nakedly careless, but a lot of them were frankly just ignorant. For example, we've learned recently that copper kills germs. If our hospitals had door handles, faucet handles, etc. plated or anodized with copper, it would kill germs over time--making hospitals safer. Yet, copper miners didn't have the foggiest idea about it. So mining for copper and leaving tailings, it never occurred to them that copper would poison plant life. In my back yard, in lieu of sprinklers, I have copper covered drip tubes under my lawn. It uses about half the water of sprinklers. Why the copper? It prevents the roots from binding to the drip tubes and clogging them. Roots "know" to stay away from copper.

One of the things I don't like about scientists and progressives is that they cannot admit that we are not as smart as we think we are. We have a great deal to learn and with AI and machine learning evolving, things are going to continue to change quickly. However, there are similar struggles happening now that are similar to the industrialization/urbaniztion process that we're going to be facing now.

Tainari88 wrote:Because their lives are isolated, empty without friends, lovers, spouses or meaningful things to make them feel they are doing something worthy of their efforts?

The answers lie in the value systems people emphasize and accept in their lives.

Indeed. Feminism takes women out of the homes and away from children. Latch key kids like me that ended up doing well became natural conservatives, because we were self-reliant at perhaps too young an age. Kids that don't do as well have no role models, no one to guide them, and naturally feel isolated and alienated. 70 years ago, you could trust a 16 year old kid with some training with the possession of a gun. Today, it would raise a lot of eyebrows, because of the cultural shift. Harry Harlow did a lot of work on the effects of maternal deprivation in Rhesus monkeys. It should have been a forewarning of what would happen in the embrace of feminism and pushing women into the workforce immediately after child birth. Values. It can't be all about money.

Tainari88 wrote:It is not a society worthy of imitation Politics Observer...because it doesn't promote respect for other societies'ways of doing things...they believe in dominaton and imposition.

You mean like how we don't respect societies that throw homosexuals off the top of buildings or preventing women from learning to read? Should we learn to have respect for these kinds of differences?

Tainari88 wrote:You can't do that in human history.

You've studied human history quite a bit. It is certainly a component of history.

Tainari88 wrote:You know Blackjack21 when you wax historical I really like it! LOL.

If you knew me personally, you'd like me a lot more than you think you would. ;-)

Tainari88 wrote:But Trump's issue is being unpredictable my man.

That's why we like him. That's what we think is needed at this time.

Tainari88 wrote:No one disciplined that man child to be predictable and be able to give some kind of predictability to the deep state people to keep on doing what they do in comfort and security.

First, that confuses the relationship. They are their to serve Trump, not the other way around. That is the legal nature of the situation. They like to wax poetic and say, "We serve the American people." Actually, they implement the policies of politicians, not their own ideas. Second, at this point, we do not want them to keep on doing what they are doing (like coming up with food pyramids that are not based on human dietary needs, or starting more wars in the Middle East).

Tainari88 wrote:A serious flaw of Trump's. For sure.

Familiarity breeds contempt. Trump is a disrupter, and it is much needed in government. The private sector has been dealing with disruption since the mass adoption of computers and cell phones, followed by the internet, followed by smart phones and cloud computing. Yet, government employees live in a little bubble that's 50 years behind the times. It's good that they're getting shaken up.

Tainari88 wrote:Unlike you I don't think that pig is going to save your Republic at all. ;)

I don't see Trump as El Salvador. I see him as Nemesis. Look at the difference between the pathetic pleas of Adam Schiff to the United States Senate, and contrast that with a Trump rally. Trump has the pulse of the nation, and it's not because he's some fountain of virtue. It's because he's taking on the establishment. If he's the only one willing to do it, he wins by default. In the Kingdom of the Blind, the one-eyed man is King.

Tainari88 wrote:or you Indy fail to realize that the two major parties just pay lip service to 'real differences'. They are both bought off corrupt freaks drunk on power plays and fail to serve the American public.

The two parties are facing huge struggles. That's why I championed AOC winning her primary, even though I disagree with much of what she supports politically. Impeachment is about some of the establishment trying to save themselves, but Trump has torpedoed their Titanic and they are taking on water. As they try to impeach Trump, they ultimately get the country asking why, and people start getting interested in what Biden was doing. Biden is a sinking ship now, not Trump. Warren is not their to pick up the pieces. Bernie supporters remember the unfairness from the DNC and Hillary. They just witnessed how CNN and Warren tag teamed Bernie. It backfired big time. Now Bernie Sanders is in the lead. I think that's awesome. I disagree with everything he stands for, but it's this kind of outcome that's necessary for the establishment to develop any sense of reflection or introspection. While they were able to bring Nixon down, they ended up with Carter followed by two Reagan terms and a Bush term. It was Bill Clinton that pretty much saved the Democratic party, and they've scarcely thanked him for it, because he's a rapist.

Tainari88 wrote:When that happens you deep eighty six both parties and either have a total cleansing or you will wind up with a failed state with embedded weak willed spineless cowards who sell their nation out to the highest bidder...but the ones thinking those wealthy repulsive liberals are the only ones on the take?

Please.

They aren't. However, Trump isn't even close to a problem in that respect. The Clintons certainly were, but what made their situation so much worse is that not only were they able to operate above the law, they relished in rubbing people's noses in that fact. That was very clear to me when the Rose Law Firm billing records mysteriously appeared in the White House residence. I said here way back in Obama's second term that Hillary would never be prosecuted for the email fiasco, but that it would be politically significant. Here we are today...
#15061927
Tainari88 wrote:I don't give a damn about those Pelosi types in gov't or the Republican corrupt sellouts. Both are people without a moral leg to stand on.


But you said they weren't any worse than Trump. They are. He hasn't been sucking off the government teat for 30 years.

They all need to be forced out. All of them. None of them are interested in the public good. If you voted for that asshole President 45 you are part of the problem as well.


Do you vote in the United States? Who did you vote for?

Choosing between two evils when you should be trying to root out the cause of so much dysfunction.


But when two evils are all you're presented, you choose the lesser of the two.

Personally, I believe that anyone who voted for Clinton is a borderline traitor. Those who voted for her supported someone who violated her oath of office by mishandling classified information, and for doing it knowingly. My biggest problem with Trump is that he didn't go after Hillary Clinton. Honestly, she should be in prison.

But no....somehow the ones voting for Trump hate liberals so much they think everyone thinks the same tunnel two way way...


I voted for Trump and I don't hate liberals. If that's what you believe I'll go ahead and move along, as I've found that someone who draws unfounded conclusions are often the most difficult people to deal with, simply because they believe their opinions trump reality.

when in the whole big wide world of international politics? There are a lot more shades of the political rainbow than just black and white or you Indy fail to realize that the two major parties just pay lip service to 'real differences'. They are both bought off corrupt freaks drunk on power plays and fail to serve the American public.


Tainari88, you don't know the first thing about me, nor do you know anything about what I know. I haven't been here long enough for you to draw any conclusions about me. I would really appreciate you not believing I have.

When that happens you deep eighty six both parties


Just a point of clarification: There's no such phrase as "deep eighty six". There's "deep six", which is a reference to the required depth of water required for a burial at see, and there's "86", which is a reference to a drunk patron getting thrown out of a bar (well, that's the most popular belief; there are many). The two have nothing to do with each other, though.

and either have a total cleansing or you will wind up with a failed state with embedded weak willed spineless cowards who sell their nation out to the highest bidder...but the ones thinking those wealthy repulsive liberals are the only ones on the take?

Please.


I believe I read in a post somewhere that you live in Mexico, is it?

Do you vote in the United States? If so, and if I may ask, who did you vote for?

Wealthy repulsive liberals like Pelosi have been in office since the Reagan administration. That's just too long. We have term limits for the Presidency. It makes no sense that we don't have them for Congressmen and Senators, as well.
#15062068
blackjack21 wrote:As a country, America is based on its state and federal constitutions. People lament Trump as some sort of racist. He is positively tolerant compared to almost all of our past presidents. While Wilson was excessively harsh on immigrants because of their immigrant status, he was also right that America faced serious risks from within by adopting so many people so fast--mostly from Europe. Immigration was effectively suspended until 1965. Since then, the makeup of America has shifted dramatically, and again we have foreign born and first generation Americans calling for radical changes to the American system. If it is to survive, the globalism and mass immigration has to stop until social cohesion is restored.


I am not part of that European real shot. I am part of the ones who got invaded and taken over and denied basic political, economic and social rights. I don't identify with a big group of Europeans desperate for some cheap or free land and being able to vote and participate while huge swaths of African slaves got NOTHING for their labor but psychological trauma that is still being felt to this very day. I don't identify with your version of JUSTICE for all. It is not. If your philosophy BJ is that the most violent, nasty, greedy, neurotic, and bloody and desperate of the European societies who had nothing but shit to look forward to and came to the USA to imitate the same fucked class system they left and fled from due to its lack of justice in their own continent and wound up making the same stupid class conscious mistakes as their socioeconomic 'betters'in Europe and that is IMPROVEMENT for the human race? I disagree strongly with you completely. You only care about the damn Europeans BJ. You don't fool me. You don't give a shit about Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Blacks, and many others. I have saw the hard callous biased heart of yours. You don't convince me about meritocracy. You are a man who doesn't acknowledge equality of innate human value. You never will. It is not your foundation. But it is MINE. We either learn that fundamental truth or you will wind up repeating that European class conscious purging of the lower classes and the error of class based shit forever. And it is not an exclusively European thing. But the solutions are not exclusively European either. I don't expect you to understand my views much BJ. You are too caught up into some myth of meritocracy in a history filled with violent injustices. That you never give credence to because those two faced liberals in California are revolting. Lol. Ay Relampaguito cuando vas ha aprender?

I got a bit of a crisis with cleaning going on right now. So I will be back to debate the other 'statements' of yours.

This is frustrating the glitch ate most of my replies....just know that your first statement this was my reply:
I am a socialist that is internationalist in perspective Relampaguito. Foreign elements are not some aliens from outer space. They are human beings who if they are adults have learned the basics and more of how to be a human being. How to work, how to do self care, shop, rent an apartment, and many other things like catch a bus. The only threat is that the economy might change and too many people will be redundant due to AI (according to you) and that includes low skilled American laborers who are increasingly finding it difficult to make end's meet on some $16.50 an hour salary. The social cohesion has to do with capitalist refusing to pay workers decent enough wages to buy homes, and not have to work two jobs to pay child support, credit card bills and basic meds, groceries, etc. Do I have to post a video of some woman from Irvine California talking about a bank employee who lives in a one bedroom apartment with her six year old daughter who can barely make it on an after tax income of less than $3k a month? The big problem Senor is that there is a parasitic very rich plutocracy who is squeezing everyone all over the world. I am in Mexico. Here in the state of Yucatan You can work all day for $350 pesos a day if you are lucky. What is that? That is about $17.50 for an eight hour shift. Which works out to be about a little more than $2 bucks an hour if they take out taxes. These are college graduate and high energy non drug addict and very intelligent young Mexicans making these wages.....? You think that is fair? It is sheer shit. A Coca-Cola costs about $15 pesos....or about eighty cents. Which is about a person's wages for half an hour. If you are making $2 dollars an hour? The equivalent in the USA is about $8.25 cents for that Coca Cola. It is not affordable living at all here. The electricity bills in the CFE in the Yucatan are the highest along with Baja California Sur in the entire country. You wind up paying about $65 to $200 USA dollars a month for power. If you make shit wages here? Like the majority you are not going to ever own your own home, rent a decent apartment or even be able to buy a used Volkswagen. It is the reason why people struggle so hard in this economy in Mexico. The wages are abysmal. The only ones profiting are the owners of businesses or banks. Not the workers. Everyone agrees that the wages in this state SUCK. They try to change that situation and who gives them hell? THE RIGHT. Not the LEFT. The RIGHT hates decent wages. You right wingers ARE HORRIBLE.
#15062085
Tainari88 wrote:I am part of the ones who got invaded and taken over and denied basic political, economic and social rights.

Political, economic and social rights scarcely existed as concepts in societies before Rousseau, et. al. The Magna Carta was a bill of rights for nobility, not commoners.

Tainari88 wrote:I don't identify with a big group of Europeans desperate for some cheap or free land and being able to vote and participate while huge swaths of African slaves got NOTHING for their labor but psychological trauma that is still being felt to this very day.

They endured more than psychological trauma. There was far more physical trauma. However, nobody who lived under slavery is alive today. I'm not all that partial to rhetorical flourishes like that.

Tainari88 wrote:If your philosophy BJ is that the most violent, nasty, greedy, neurotic, and bloody and desperate of the European societies who had nothing but shit to look forward to and came to the USA to imitate the same fucked class system they left and fled from due to its lack of justice in their own continent and wound up making the same stupid class conscious mistakes as their socioeconomic 'betters'in Europe and that is IMPROVEMENT for the human race?

They didn't create a monarchy and a nobility. On the contrary, they pretty much outlawed both.

Tainari88 wrote:You only care about the damn Europeans BJ. You don't fool me. You don't give a shit about Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Blacks, and many others. I have saw the hard callous biased heart of yours. You don't convince me about meritocracy. You are a man who doesn't acknowledge equality of innate human value. You never will. It is not your foundation. But it is MINE.

You seem a little angry today Azuquita. I don't think we need to live under a global political system at all. In fact, I think it is a supremely bad idea. Equality of innate human value is a Christian religious concept, which for some reason the socialists cling to while denying its author, Jesus Christ. I do not view people as equal. I also don't believe in group-based superiority based on arbitrary concepts like skin color. I do think IQ plays a huge role in wealth distribution.

Tainari88 wrote:You are too caught up into some myth of meritocracy in a history filled with violent injustices.

All societies have injustices. However, living standards in the United States today are far better than they were a few hundred years ago. Even poor people today have many advantages that rich people didn't have in the past.

Tainari88 wrote:This is frustrating the glitch ate most of my replies...

Use a text editor. Then copy and paste them into the browser. Also make sure your beginning and ending tags are syntactically correct, or sometimes the formatting functions will iterate over the text and remove some replies.

Tainari88 wrote:I am a socialist that is internationalist in perspective Relampaguito. Foreign elements are not some aliens from outer space. They are human beings who if they are adults have learned the basics and more of how to be a human being. How to work, how to do self care, shop, rent an apartment, and many other things like catch a bus.

Many of these things were made regular and improved or perfected by modern societies. 200 years ago, people weren't brushing their teeth with flouride toothpaste. The scientific method, the industrial revolution and market economics have done much to improve our way of life.

Tainari88 wrote:The only threat is that the economy might change and too many people will be redundant due to AI (according to you) and that includes low skilled American laborers who are increasingly finding it difficult to make end's meet on some $16.50 an hour salary. The social cohesion has to do with capitalist refusing to pay workers decent enough wages to buy homes, and not have to work two jobs to pay child support, credit card bills and basic meds, groceries, etc.

To a certain extent I agree; however, I don't think it is limited to wages. I think part of the issue is what the socialists/communists bring up--ownership of the means of production. I think part of compensation in the private sector, particularly for publicly traded companies ought to involve equity and Employee Stock Ownership Programs. In that sense, I disagree that the state should own the means of production. The workers need more of a cut, but equity and variable pay are ways to accomplish those ends too.

Tainari88 wrote:Do I have to post a video of some woman from Irvine California talking about a bank employee who lives in a one bedroom apartment with her six year old daughter who can barely make it on an after tax income of less than $3k a month?

Irvine is middle class. Santa Ana would be a little cheaper. $3k a month is a working class wage. Do you think about why the woman isn't married with a husband that has an income too? The social revolution and women's rights sound really nice in theory. In practice, raising children with one parent is always a huge challenge even for rich people. Children in two parent families are nearly always better off.

Tainari88 wrote:The big problem Senor is that there is a parasitic very rich plutocracy who is squeezing everyone all over the world.

That's part of it. However, that can oversimplify things. You may think Bill Gates is a prick, but he pays high wages because he has no choice. He hasn't gotten rich by sweating poor people for peanuts. Now Jeff Bezos you could say is more of a prick, because he does things like cutting health care benefits for workers after buying a company like Whole Foods. However, globally the problem is somewhat different--an elastic monetary system can keep redistributing wealth, but it always ends up back with producers or the government. That's why people need to be paid in part in equity that they must hold for a time.

Tainari88 wrote:These are college graduate and high energy non drug addict and very intelligent young Mexicans making these wages.....?

Graduating in what and working where? In America, they killed off all the trade training in high schools. No more woodshop. No more machine shop. No more metal shop. That destroyed people from working class families. If you could drop your "everyone's a racist" protests and actually read what Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein were saying in The Bell Curve, they more or less predicted the situation we're in now. Yet colleges wanted to admit everyone and ended up creating worthless degrees like "women's studies", "black studies" and the like. If you have a degree like that, you have a mountain of debt and are qualified for nothing except perhaps teaching "women's studies" or "black studies". This is why the working class is abandoning the left now, that is more concerned with transgender issues than it is with working class wages.

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