" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15070830
Drlee wrote:This is fucking disgusting. Hard times bring out great people. It also brings out the infantile, the sick and the ignorant.

Here is the deal folks. If JimJam, Late, Hindsite and I got corona virus one of us (at least) would die.

And some mental midget pointed out that this would solve the social security problem. Piece of shit.

That is a very low blow putting me in the same category as jimjam and late. Shame on you.
No one in the U.S. with covid-19 has died because we have the best medical professionals in the world.
The U.S. also has the best president in the world.
Praise the Lord.
#15070832
Gettin' wrecked by Hindsite up in here
might be time to sit and have a beer
posting like you King Lear
only you ain't got a hot daughter

When everyone has died of coronavirus
except for Miley Cyrus
At least Donald Drumph won't be King
and Drake will know how to sing
#15070841
Hindsite wrote:No one in the U.S. with covid-19 has died because we have the best medical professionals in the world.

The U.S. also has the best president in the world.



I think the bolded statement is true.

Meanwhile, Trump might be better than Xi Jinping but whether he is better than presidents of other countries is debatable.

EDIT: And seriously, whether the pandemic can be contained depends on whether the common people of the country is the best in the world. The problem is, in America, there are two groups of people which are polar opposite, and seem to hate and distrust each other. I wish the Lord can inspire them to work together instead of bicker against each other. Praise the Lord.
#15070857
sorry guys but I can't hold this in any longer.

Those of you who think this will hurt Trump in the election are tripping.

First, the country usually rallies behind the President during a genuine crisis. Think of Bush after 9/11 and during his unpopular wars, he won anyway. Who do you think people would trust more to handle this, the guy who has a reputation for getting his goals accomplished at any cost or Bernie Sanders? And in a week Biden is probably going to claim he fought the Coronavirus in a one-on-one duel and sent it packing. Maybe he and the guy who invented penicillin found the Coronavirus in an ancient temple and banished it until Trump screwed it up.

Second, the stock market. If it corrects now, it almost surely won't correct again in nine months when the election is happening.

Third, the nine months thing. That's an eternity in politics. I guarantee you that no one is going to be talking about this (thankfully) zero-deaths thing nine months from now. No one. Not unless they are academically referencing the recent crash, which will likely have given way to a recovery within those nine months.

The only thing this might do is boost Bernie Sanders because Trump looks vulnerable right now but if you really stop to think ahead, he's not at all long term vulnerable from this, not right now.

The Coronavirus is basically a super-flu that China was willing to drop everything for because it pushed Hong Kong out of the news cycle. We are exiting flu season. This is not taking down Trump who isn't responsible for a flu in China that hasn't killed any Americans.

You're welcome.
#15070869
Wulfschilde wrote:The Coronavirus is basically a super-flu that China was willing to drop everything for because it pushed Hong Kong out of the news cycle.


Wishful thinking. Whoever wants that to exit news headlines are essentially pro-totalitarianism.

I do want other protests keep strong as well. So many governments have to be held to account!
#15070891
late wrote:2) There was one agency in charge, the presidential administration.

The president is the principal. The agencies are separate, but work on behalf of the principal. CDC is typically responsible for this sort of thing.

Drlee wrote:And some mental midget pointed out that this would solve the social security problem. Piece of shit.

Ha ha! Fatalities usually hit older people with pre-existing conditions. It's March. The flu season will be over in a month to six weeks. I find it interesting that the left is concerned with overpopulation, global warming, and a pandemic. Trump suspended travel with China, and the left decided to call him a racist. There really aren't that many people dead yet. If we were losing millions, then it would be a more interesting story. What we have is a massive freak out.

Godstud wrote:It wasn't up to the Democrats to take action.

They are all required to be responsible. So not impeaching Trump for identifying Biden's corruption would be a step in the right direction for Democrats.

Atlantis wrote:But since obesity and high blood pressure are aggravating factors, we can expect many Trumpets to depart from our midst.

You mean Jerry Nadler is a Trumpet?

Rugoz wrote:The Trump admin is truly the scum of the Earth.

This wouldn't be such a big deal if we didn't have free trade with China.

Hindsite wrote:No one in the U.S. with covid-19 has died because we have the best medical professionals in the world.

We have ObamaCare. No need to worry at all!

Patrickov wrote:Meanwhile, Trump might be better than Xi Jinping but whether he is better than presidents of other countries is debatable.

He acted on the CDC's advice to suspend travel. The Democrats called him a racist.

Wulfschilde wrote:Those of you who think this will hurt Trump in the election are tripping.

They are hoping for a bigger disaster than their presidential candidates, because it's their last shot. The problem is that they are campaigning on open borders during a pandemic, where it is very clearly a bad idea.

Wulfschilde wrote:First, the country usually rallies behind the President during a genuine crisis. Think of Bush after 9/11 and during his unpopular wars, he won anyway. Who do you think people would trust more to handle this, the guy who has a reputation for getting his goals accomplished at any cost or Bernie Sanders? And in a week Biden is probably going to claim he fought the Coronavirus in a one-on-one duel and sent it packing. Maybe he and the guy who invented penicillin found the Coronavirus in an ancient temple and banished it until Trump screwed it up.

Right. The economic impact isn't a function of government policy, but of a serious viral contagion.

Wulfschilde wrote:Second, the stock market. If it corrects now, it almost surely won't correct again in nine months when the election is happening.

Also true. The market was on a tear anyway. So we're just back to where we were in September/October. Life wasn't so miserable in September/October.

Wulfschilde wrote:The only thing this might do is boost Bernie Sanders because Trump looks vulnerable right now but if you really stop to think ahead, he's not at all long term vulnerable from this, not right now.

How? Sanders is for open borders--although he lies about it. He used to be against illegal aliens driving down wages, but now he's for it.

late wrote:We have a real crisis, and all you guys know how to do is politics, Trump style.

You people have been in a state of panic since election day 2016. Talk to your doctor about Xanax. It was you who authored this thread, somehow trying to blame Trump for a virus which didn't even originate in the US. Democrats called Trump a racist for suspending travel, and the media is somehow deeply concerned about this virus stoking racism. :roll: It is this sort of stuff that got Trump elected in the first place. :knife:
#15070896
1 in 4? The death rate isn't 25% unless you are all over 80 and have severe comorbidity.

But since obesity and high blood pressure are aggravating factors, we can expect many Trumpets to depart from our midst.


We are all around 70 which puts it at about 10 percent. The problem is that the US is not testing so I am not certain that early detection is likely. Further one of us is a health care person which ups the ante a bit.

So I engaged in a bit of hyperbole.

No one in the U.S. with covid-19 has died because we have the best medical professionals in the world.


OK. Here is the truth about that.

We do not know if anyone has died of Covid-19. People die of respiratory illnesses everyday and in great numbers. The US has only tested about 500 people total so any number may have died with the docs believing it was flu/pneumonia.

We have community spread now. This will be the testing time. We will see what our various governments do to keep this under control. Or if it is under control now.

As for the "best medical professionals in the world". This is simply not true. Are the best US docs and best US facilities the equal of any in the world? Yes they are. But pay close fucking attention:

It does not matter that Johns Hopkins Medical Center is a great facility if you are being treated at St. Somewhere hospital. The US is a geographically diverse country. More importantly, because of the nature of our heath care system which leaves millions uninsured and many if not most under insured this adds an important wrinkle to the issue. Early detection = better outcomes. This is true in any severe respiratory condition. So if people are at home waiting because they simply cannot afford a big doctor/hospital bill their outcomes become worse. We know for a fact that this happens in the US.

There is a myth here that we need to dispel right away. Emergency rooms will evaluate and sometimes treat all who present there with an illness whether a person is insured or not or whether they can afford to pay or not. This does not mean that these patients will not get a bill. They will. And very frequently a very big one. The average American cannot afford to pay $10,000.00 for anything and a comprehensive ER visit can exceed this if substantial testing is required. If one is hospitalized in the ICU for a serious infection the bill could run to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hardly anyone can afford this..

So you (all) can understand how the ER works, let me give you an example. Suppose a homeless or uninsured person goes to the ER with an abscess. This is a life threatening condition. The ER is required to treat it. So they lance the abscess and give the patient a prescription for antibiotics and discharge them with wound care instructions. The homeless person has no money so they can't fill the prescription. They don't but because the abscess has been lanced it feels better so they ignore it. A couple of weeks later all hell breaks loose and they are in the ICU for days. That simple $20.00 antibiotic could have fixed this problem but ER's do not do that. Once the person leaves the ER their responsibility stops. And make no mistake. The person they treated is on the hook for the ER bill. They may not be able to pay but the hospitals will place it for collection and this person will be hounded even if they find a job. And they know it.

Compare this to the UK where the situation is quite different. The patient goes to the outpatient clinic where a GP lances the boil, gives them their prescription antibiotic to take with them and schedules a followup appointment for wound care. And ironically this costs the NHS a lot less than just the ER visit would cost.

So we will see what happens with this outbreak. When it comes to handling something like this the US is far from the "best". It may be the best for me with 100% paid health care and the knowledge of where to go for the best care but for the average person, not so much. I would MUCH rather weather a storm like this in the UK or Canada than here in the US unless I had insurance like mine.
#15070905
blackjack21 wrote:
The president is the principal. The agencies are separate, but work on behalf of the principal. CDC is typically responsible for this sort of thing.




Truman had a plaque on his desk that said "The buck stops here." For Trump and his cult, the buck never stops on their side of the fence. While the president doesn't have much control over the economy, it's still his to own. But the president has a lot of control over this sort of crisis. As Obama proved.. This was Trump's responsibility, and he screwed up early and often.
#15070908
Rancid wrote:
I do wonder if the failures that this will expose in the US medical system might lead to more people wanting a single payer system. I guess it depends on how bad those failures are.



Cool idea, here's hoping this becomes 'a teachable moment'.
#15070909
Drlee wrote:We do not know if anyone has died of Covid-19. People die of respiratory illnesses everyday and in great numbers. The US has only tested about 500 people total so any number may have died with the docs believing it was flu/pneumonia.


Yes, however, even without testing we would know because we would see a significant uptick in deaths of respiratory illnesses over the coming weeks/months. It's a lagging indicator of course, and horrible because it means we will have delayed how long it takes for taking more preventative measures, but still, we would know. You simply have normalize deaths due to respiratory illnesses from Dec 2019 until now, against death prior to Dec 2019. Super easy math problem that can be done in Excel.
Last edited by Rancid on 29 Feb 2020 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
#15070911
late wrote:Cool idea, here's hoping this becomes 'a teachable moment'.


:hmm: At the expense of who though?

I guess the most ideal version of this scenario would be many/most people are treated and survive at rates that are better than the rest of the globe, however, many of those treated are bankrupt and fucked over financially. At least in this case, it would mean that not too many people died, but the failure in the system is apparent. The big failure being cost and coverage.
#15070928
late wrote:Truman had a plaque on his desk that said "The buck stops here."

So? What does that have to do with dropping atomic bombs on civilians?

late wrote:For Trump and his cult, the buck never stops on their side of the fence.

Sure it does. We just don't think he's a medical doctor, an epidemiologist, etc. He listens to his counsel and acts accordingly.

late wrote:While the president doesn't have much control over the economy, it's still his to own.

He's responsible for economic policies and how they support or harm the economy.

late wrote:But the president has a lot of control over this sort of crisis.

The CDC is working on it.

late wrote:As Obama proved..

How did Obama prove anything?

late wrote:This was Trump's responsibility, and he screwed up early and often.

Trump is not responsible for what happens in Wuhan, China. When the CDC advised him to suspend travel from China, Trump obliged and was called a racist by Democrats who then went on to say that we mustn't become racist as a result of a viral outbreak in China.

Rancid wrote:I do wonder if the failures that this will expose in the US medical system might lead to more people wanting a single payer system. I guess it depends on how bad those failures are.

If the government is supposedly screwing it up, why would you want them to have complete control? Italy has a national health service and they have a Coronavirus outbreak with 1100 cases and 29 fatalities. By contrast, the US has half that number and no fatalities.

late wrote:Cool idea, here's hoping this becomes 'a teachable moment'.

Yeah, the teaching is that the virus originated in a country with a communist oligarchy and spread it to other countries, like Italy who has a national health service and twice as many cases as the US with only 1/5 the population and they have 29 fatalities and the US has zero so far.
#15070932
blackjack21 wrote:How did Obama prove anything?


Excellent point. Obama screwed absolutely everything up and every decision he made was wrong while Donald has NEVER made an error and has made America great again. How do I know? Rush, Sean and BJ #21 told me so.
#15070933
blackjack21 wrote:If the government is supposedly screwing it up, why would you want them to have complete control? Italy has a national health service and they have a Coronavirus outbreak with 1100 cases and 29 fatalities. By contrast, the US has half that number and no fatalities.


As I stated, the failure in the US system is the cost model. Which, is not controlled by the government.
#15070934
jimjam wrote:Excellent point. Obama screwed absolutely everything up and every decision he made was wrong while Donald has NEVER made an error and has made America great again. How do I know? Rush, Sean and BJ #21 told me so.

I never said any such thing. Trump didn't fire holdovers, which was a catastrophic mistake and he is solely to blame for that. He also failed to get ObamaCare repealed, but a big chunk of the blame goes to John McCain.

Rancid wrote:As I stated, the failure in the US system is the cost model. Which, is not controlled by the government.

I'd rather be bankrupt and alive rather than dead. Maybe when I'm 80 I won't care so much, but at this point I'm still enjoying life.
#15070935
blackjack21 wrote:This wouldn't be such a big deal if we didn't have free trade with China.


How's that even a response. You have a Trump admin official refusing to deny that the virus is a hoax. Nobody in his right mind would tolerate such pathetic people in power.

blackjack21 wrote:If the government is supposedly screwing it up, why would you want them to have complete control? Italy has a national health service and they have a Coronavirus outbreak with 1100 cases and 29 fatalities. By contrast, the US has half that number and no fatalities.


Italy has tested 18.5k people. I would be careful with pointing fingers given the US has already 4 community infections.

What might help the US is that less people use public transit. Not sure how relevant that is though.
#15070937
“Whether it is the virus that we're talking about or many other public health threats, the Democrat policy of open borders is a direct threat to the health and well-being of all Americans. Now, you see it with the coronavirus. You see it. You see it with the coronavirus. You see that. When you have this virus or any other virus or any other problem coming in, it's not the only thing that comes in through the border and we are setting records now at the border,” Trump said yesterday.

It is perfectly clear that impeached president Trump's primary concern with the Corona virus is his own skin. Clear as day. I give him credit though. He has actually made a virus into a political, not a health, issue. I suspect that before this is over that Donald, Rush and Sean will be able to discern Liberal virus' from conservative virus'.

"You see it. You see it with the coronavirus. You see that. When you have this virus or any other virus or any other problem coming in, it's not the only thing that comes in through the border and we are setting records now at the border,” Um …….. sho enuf Chief. sho enuf, whatever you say :?: Meantime his incessant babbling of nonsense continues and increasingly resembles early stage dementia.
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