[Julian658]

The government can give the money directly to the person through the employment insurance system, and simply pass a law saying that they have to be hired again when business restarts.

You miss the point. The business may be closed forever if they run out of capital. It is best to have a business employing people than the government handing out unemployment checks,

Do you know what information asymmetry is?

Please explain away.

Meanwhile, places with public healthcare have already started.

Obviously you do not live in the USA. IN one week they did more testing that South Korea in two months. Granted the population of the USA is much larger so on a proportion basis SK did more.

Do you truly understand the meaning of this: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest". Do you see why it is such a magnificent wealth producing engine?

How about this one? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" Can you analyze that one too. Can you make a contrast between the two statements.

[Godstud]

The business may be closed forever if they run out of capital.

They'll re-open when capital appears again. What you propose is simply a variation on "trickle Down Economics".

It is best to have a business employing people than the government handing out unemployment checks,

Yes, but you can't do that during a pandemic.

Obviously you do not live in the USA. IN one week they did more testing that South Korea in two months. Granted the population of the USA is much larger so on a proportion basis SK did more.

Not true.

Watch the video, as well. It's informative, and very short.

Fact Check: US has done more coronavirus tests than South Korea, but not per person
Facts First: While the US has overtaken South Korea in total numbers of coronavirus tests administered, it has conducted far fewer tests per capita given the US population is more than six times larger than South Korea's.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/25/poli ... index.html

Also, a good article by a Canadian news publication- very respectable.

Escape from Florida: My 2,400-km drive back to the sanity of Canada
Stephen Maher: In Florida, the beaches were open, people filled bars, and many just couldn't seem to grasp 'why everyone is panicking'
https://www.macleans.ca/society/life/es ... G4HIliUP-4

[Julian658]

:roll: They'll re-open when capital appears again. What you propose is simply a variation on "trickle Down Economics".

A mom and pop business with 15-20 employees does not have the capital of Apple or Tesla. These businesses operate on a much smaller scale and several months of of no income means closing the business and letting 20 people go. The cash to reopen the business does not grow on trees. Providing employment is not trickle down economics. That is just a silly slogan.


Not true.

Watch the video, as well. It's informative, and very short.

Fact Check: US has done more coronavirus tests than South Korea, but not per person
Facts First: While the US has overtaken South Korea in total numbers of coronavirus tests administered, it has conducted far fewer tests per capita given the US population is more than six times larger than South Korea's.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/25/poli ... index.html

You did not read my post. I said SK has done more tests in relationship to a much smaller population.

Also, a good article by a Canadian news publication- very respectable.

Escape from Florida: My 2,400-km drive back to the sanity of Canada
Stephen Maher: In Florida, the beaches were open, people filled bars, and many just couldn't seem to grasp 'why everyone is panicking'
https://www.macleans.ca/society/life/es ... G4HIliUP-4

[/quote]

Americans are not as disciplined as Asians when it comes to social distancing. POD called me a racist when I said that.

BTW, Sweden decided not to close the economy. Figure that one!

[Godstud]

@Julian658 From the article I posted:

We have a higher level of social trust in Canada—56 compared to 49 in the United States in one ranking—a quality that makes people more likely to observe quarantine advice, believe their media and public health officials during a crisis.

Canadians are divided, politically and geographically, but compared with our neighbours, our divisions are trifling. I have been impressed with the way governments of different political stripes have handled this crisis in this country. There are disagreements, as is proper in a democracy, about the best course to take, but the virus has not been turned into a political weapon, as it has in the United States, where attitudes about the illness sharply diverge on partisan lines.

I am afraid that partisan division, fuelled by a narcissistic, attention-seeking president, is going to cost the Americans dearly.

I suspect that when we have eventually run this virus into the ground, and we try to understand what worked and what didn’t, we will find that societies with high levels of social solidarity did better than societies where citizens mistrust one another.

Social solidarity—the sense that we are all in this together—is what makes retired nurses volunteer to go back to work in the frightening hospitals, and what makes healthy young people stay home to flatten the curve.

I think social solidarity is why the curve is so flat in traditionally collectivist East Asian societies, and rising so sharply in the United States.
In South Korea, Taiwan and Japan—modern, free-market democracies—governments and populations quickly pivoted to change behaviour. (Cultural norms around mask wearing and lower levels of obesity are likely also important factors in reducing infection and death rates in Asia.)

I think we can see the same thing in Canada. Quebec, which has a stronger sense of social solidarity than other provinces, has been quicker to act decisively, and thus may be spared the worst of this illness. But all of Canada has handled this well, at least in comparison with our neighbour.

[Julian658]

@Julian658 From the article I posted:

We have a higher level of social trust in Canada—56 compared to 49 in the United States in one ranking—a quality that makes people more likely to observe quarantine advice, believe their media and public health officials during a crisis.

Canadians are divided, politically and geographically, but compared with our neighbours, our divisions are trifling. I have been impressed with the way governments of different political stripes have handled this crisis in this country. There are disagreements, as is proper in a democracy, about the best course to take, but the virus has not been turned into a political weapon, as it has in the United States, where attitudes about the illness sharply diverge on partisan lines.

I am afraid that partisan division, fuelled by a narcissistic, attention-seeking president, is going to cost the Americans dearly.

I suspect that when we have eventually run this virus into the ground, and we try to understand what worked and what didn’t, we will find that societies with high levels of social solidarity did better than societies where citizens mistrust one another.

Social solidarity—the sense that we are all in this together—is what makes retired nurses volunteer to go back to work in the frightening hospitals, and what makes healthy young people stay home to flatten the curve.

I think social solidarity is why the curve is so flat in traditionally collectivist East Asian societies, and rising so sharply in the United States.
In South Korea, Taiwan and Japan—modern, free-market democracies—governments and populations quickly pivoted to change behaviour. (Cultural norms around mask wearing and lower levels of obesity are likely also important factors in reducing infection and death rates in Asia.)

I think we can see the same thing in Canada. Quebec, which has a stronger sense of social solidarity than other provinces, has been quicker to act decisively, and thus may be spared the worst of this illness. But all of Canada has handled this well, at least in comparison with our neighbour.

America is too large, too diverse, and with large pockets of uneducated people. Smaller nations with less diversity are more cohesive and more conscientious. They also have less crime and less social problems. Asians are great at following the rules and are more disciplined. In America there is an epidemic of obesity, alcoholism, smoking, street violence, drugs, teen pregnancy in people of low socio-economic status. It is what it is.

[Godstud]

America is too large, too diverse, and with large pockets of uneducated people. Smaller nations with less diversity are more cohesive and more conscientious. They also have less crime and less social problems. Asians are great at following the rules and are more disciplined. In America there is an epidemic of obesity, alcoholism, smoking, street violence, drugs, teen pregnancy in people of low socio-economic status. It is what it is.

China is pretty near as large as USA, with far more people.

Smoking is rampant in China.

China has rising obesity problems in its cities, where fast food is avaliable.

China considers crystal methamphetamine abuse second to heroin/morphine as a major drug problem. The use of MDMA has only recently become popular in China's growing urban areas.

China has different social problems.

Social Solidarity. Americans lack that.

[Pants-of-dog]

You miss the point. The business may be closed forever if they run out of capital. It is best to have a business employing people than the government handing out unemployment checks,

Are you saying that the innovation and investment provided by the boss is not enough to make money?

Please explain away.

In contract theory and economics, information asymmetry deals with the study of decisions in transactions where one party has more or better information than the other. This asymmetry creates an imbalance of power in transactions, which can sometimes cause the transactions to go awry, a kind of market failure in the worst case. Examples of this problem are adverse selection,[1] moral hazard, and monopolies of knowledge.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

Obviously you do not live in the USA. IN one week they did more testing that South Korea in two months. Granted the population of the USA is much larger so on a proportion basis SK did more.

Provide evidence for this claim that the US has done more test than S. Korea.

Do you truly understand the meaning of this: "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest". Do you see why it is such a magnificent wealth producing engine?

If you can read, you would know I already answered this, and I even pointed out how Smith supports my claims about the free market.

How about this one? "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" Can you analyze that one too. Can you make a contrast between the two statements.

Yes and I have done so before. Can you explain what it means?

[Julian658]

Social Solidarity. Americans lack that.

I wish America was more like France where it is not proper to classify people according to skin color or ethnicity. IN France everybody is French--- end of story. America has become divided since the government preaches race identity politics. The census has more racial categories than the old South Africa.

[Julian658]

Are you saying that the innovation and investment provided by the boss is not enough to make money?

POD: Don't play the naive poster. Any business needs cash to rent space, buy equipment, payroll, provide health insurance to employees, pay taxes, supplies, equipment, etc. It takes a lot of risk to open a private business. These small to medium companies hire millions of people, Many are like a family.

In contract theory and economics, information asymmetry deals with the study of decisions in transactions where one party has more or better information than the other. This asymmetry creates an imbalance of power in transactions, which can sometimes cause the transactions to go awry, a kind of market failure in the worst case. Examples of this problem are adverse selection,[1] moral hazard, and monopolies of knowledge.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

Capitalism is not perfect. The analysis of Carlos Marx regarding the flaws of capitalism qas 100% correct,

Provide evidence for this claim that the US has done more test than S. Korea.

Read the article posted by God. In absolute numbers the USA has tested more. However, the population of the USA is much larger. So proportionally Korea has covered a larger segment of the population. POD: I beg you to stop this nasty habit of asking for spoon feeding of common knowledge.

Yes and I have done so before. Can you explain what it means?

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". It means that if you are highly productive you must give the fruits of your work to others that do not work as hard as you do. Sooner or later YOU would lose your motivation to work hard.

The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.
AR

[Pants-of-dog]

POD: Don't play the naive poster. Any business needs cash to rent space, buy equipment, payroll, provide health insurance to employees, pay taxes, supplies, equipment, etc. It takes a lot of risk to open a private business. These small to medium companies hire millions of people, Many are like a family.

During the ongoing outbreak, government can and should provide rent freezes, as well as (reduced) pay to the workers. Government also already provides health care for the workers at all times in developed countries. Developing countries can use the current outbreak as an opportunity to create their own public healthcare systems. The companies that currently exist already have equipment, and supplies and will not be using any while they are shut down, so they will not need more.

So no, businesses have (or should have) no expenses at this time.

Capitalism is not perfect. The analysis of Carlos Marx regarding the flaws of capitalism qas 100% correct,

This is irrelevant.

Back to what we were discussing: can you see how information asymmetry influences the medical market?

Read the article posted by God. In absolute numbers the USA has tested more. However, the population of the USA is much larger. So proportionally Korea has covered a larger segment of the population. POD: I beg you to stop this nasty habit of asking for spoon feeding of common knowledge.

Quote the relevant text.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". It means that if you are highly productive you must give the fruits of your work to others that do not work as hard as you do. Sooner or later YOU would lose your motivation to work hard.

The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.
AR

Yes, Ayn Rand hated Christians. Who cares?

[Julian658]

During the ongoing outbreak, government can and should provide rent freezes, as well as (reduced) pay to the workers. Government also already provides health care for the workers at all times in developed countries. Developing countries can use the current outbreak as an opportunity to create their own public healthcare systems. The companies that currently exist already have equipment, and supplies and will not be using any while they are shut down, so they will not need more.

Whether Ayn Rand is Satan or Mother Theresa is irrelevant. An Ad Hominem to Ayn Rand does not alter the syntaxis or meaning of the written words. That is a high schoolish debate fallacy POD. You know better than that! Ayn Rand grew up communist, she knew exactly what communism means.

Please explain what her words means to you:

The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.


Any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value—and so long as that beneficiary is anybody other than oneself, anything goes.

[Pants-of-dog]

Whether Ayn Rand is Satan or Mother Theresa is irrelevant. An Ad Hominem to Ayn Rand does not alter the syntaxis or meaning of the written words. That is a high schoolish debate fallacy POD. You know better than that! Ayn Rand grew up communist, she knew exactly what communism means.

Please explain what her words means to you:

The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.


Any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value—and so long as that beneficiary is anybody other than oneself, anything goes.

No. This is all irrelevant. Learn to debate.

Do you have anything to say about the actual topic?

[Julian658]

No. This is all irrelevant. Learn to debate.

Do you have anything to say about the actual topic?

POD is cornered and desperately tries to weasel out!

Perfect Storm?

The left wants chaos, economic depression, and pandemonium so they can preach socialism. Here in America Corona is the new climate change or Russia collusion. The left wants things do go down the tube. Think about it: It is the typical "the end justifies the means". A good outcome excuses any wrongs committed to attain it. Take you for example: Sometimes you post things that you know are incorrect, but you do it because you feel you have a noble cause.

[Pants-of-dog]

POD is cornered and desperately tries to weasel out!

So no, you cannot say anything about what we were discussing: how the free market is able or unable to deal with the current viral outbreak.

Perfect Storm?

The left wants chaos, economic depression, and pandemonium so they can preach socialism. Here in America Corona is the new climate change or Russia collusion. The left wants things do go down the tube. Think about it: It is the typical "the end justifies the means". A good outcome excuses any wrongs committed to attain it.

This is a new argument.

You are claiming that the left (whoever that is) has a certain emotional outlook (i.e. they love all the death and economic woes) on the situation because “the left” want to use it as an excuse to take over the world.

If you want to talk about Biden’s feelings go ahead. Do it without me. Sounds boring and useless.

Take you for example: Sometimes you post things that you know are incorrect, but you do it because you feel you have a noble cause.

And we are back to your passive aggressive insults. If are you going to call me a liar, just say it.

[Julian658]

And we are back to your passive aggressive insults. If are you going to call me a liar, just say it.

You are not a liar POD. Most of the time you actually believe what you write. However, sometimes, you get carried away. For instance you have asserted that Cuba has a better healthcare than the developed world because there are 9 physicians per 1000 people in Cuba. In Canada and America there are around 2.5 physicians per each 1000 citizens. I suspect you do not actually believe that, but you post it anyway because you firmly believe in your cause.

[Pants-of-dog]

I did not say that Cuba had a better healthcare system.

I said it was better prepared for this viral outbreak than the US and Canada in terms of the number of doctors it has. This can be easily verified by looking at the number of doctors per capita.

Now, is there anything I have written here that is incorrect or not the truth?

[Julian658]

I did not say that Cuba had a better healthcare system.

I said it was better prepared for this viral outbreak than the US and Canada in terms of the number of doctors it has. This can be easily verified by looking at the number of doctors per capita.

Thankfully Cuba is an island with little influx of people from the rest of the world. Your assertion that Cuba would do better than America or Canada is hyperbole. They are still using late 1950s medical equipment. For example sigmoidoscopies are done with a rigid metal tube. They do not have flexible scopes to reach the rest of the colon. Their pharmacies provide free drugs, but they have chronic shortages during normal non-stressful times.

POD: I know many Cubans that have made it to Florida . I have talked to them. I repeatedly ask them if what we say about the scarcity of goods in Cuba is propaganda. POD, it is not propaganda, it is true. I will say I admire how Cubans do with what little they have. And that translates to American Cubans. As you know Cubans have the highest standard of living among all Latin Americans in the USA.

[Pants-of-dog]

Thankfully Cuba is an island with little influx of people from the rest of the world. Your assertion that Cuba would do better than America or Canada is hyperbole. They are still using late 1950s medical equipment. For example sigmoidoscopies are done with a rigid metal tube. They do not have flexible scopes to reach the rest of the colon. Their pharmacies provide free drugs, but they have chronic shortages during normal non-stressful times.

POD: I know many Cubans that have made it to Florida . I have talked to them. I repeatedly ask them if what we say about the scarcity of goods in Cuba is propaganda. POD, it is not propaganda, it is true. I will say I admire how Cubans do with what little they have. And that translates to American Cubans. As you know Cubans have the highest standard of living among all Latin Americans in the USA.

I am not interested in your off topic and unsupported claims about Cuba.

You have failed to support any of your claims about the free market system and its reaction to the current viral outbreak.

Let me know if you have anything to say about the actual topic.

[Julian658]

I am not interested in your off topic and unsupported claims about Cuba.

You have failed to support any of your claims about the free market system and its reaction to the current viral outbreak.

Let me know if you have anything to say about the actual topic.

POD:
You are relentless! You avoid topics that you cannot refute. I get it!

[Pants-of-dog]

POD:
You are relentless! You avoid topics that you cannot refute. I get it!

If you want to start a thread about how a developing country does not have a better healthcare system than the USA, I will gladly post in that.

But the fact that Cuba has a better healthcare system than the USA does not change the fact that the free market is not good at viral outbreaks.