Trump opponents fooling themselves again? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15103476
You all may have noticed that Democrats and Trump oppenents started to fool themselves again just like they did in 2016 election.

I have seen numerous polls on liberal media recently. There was also one on Fox News. All show that Joe Biden has double digit lead over Donald Trump. I feel like it is dejavu when I see these polls and news.

What do you think?
#15103480
Istanbuller wrote:You all may have noticed that Democrats and Trump oppenents started to fool themselves again just like they did in 2016 election.

I have seen numerous polls on liberal media recently. There was also one on Fox News. All show that Joe Biden has double digit lead over Donald Trump. I feel like it is dejavu when I see these polls and news.

What do you think?


I agree, they're letting their hatred of this one person blind them to the reality of the situation around them. President Trump will win re-election in 2020, regardless of their feelings and delusional wishful thinking. Worst thing about it is that they don't understand in 2020 anymore than they did in 2016.
#15103500
I think Biden sucks bad. And Trump is a nightmare. I think Dr. Cornel West has the right idea on this whole situation.

Here:


#15103726
Istanbuller wrote:You all may have noticed that Democrats and Trump oppenents started to fool themselves again just like they did in 2016 election.

I have seen numerous polls on liberal media recently. There was also one on Fox News. All show that Joe Biden has double digit lead over Donald Trump. I feel like it is dejavu when I see these polls and news.

What do you think?


You tell me. It seems that all other polls since the election have been pretty decent. Including those that have lead to ousting of republican governors, senators even in red states. You tell me, the house flipped dozens of seats in 2018. Do you think all of those were flukes?

At the end of the day it is about turnout, the majority of America dislikes, disapproves and possibly flat out hates Donald Trump. It is just a matter of whether or not they are lazy enough to allow the orange to stay in power.
#15103950
@Istanbuller, I admire your dogged determination as a defender of lost causes. At this point, Trump is already finished, he's politically dead.

His choices are between suffering the most humiliating defeat in US history or retreating from the presidential race now.

We need more popcorn to watch from the gallery how the populists and autocrats of this world will come tumbling down after Trump.

The pandemic has rung in a paradigm shift in world politics and people will start taking climate change seriously.
#15103977
Istanbuller wrote:You all may have noticed that Democrats and Trump oppenents started to fool themselves again just like they did in 2016 election.

I have seen numerous polls on liberal media recently. There was also one on Fox News. All show that Joe Biden has double digit lead over Donald Trump. I feel like it is dejavu when I see these polls and news.

What do you think?


He is right.
Although I hope this polls are true, its commonly known that many media really are raging heavy war against trump. They really don't want him to win. But still facts remain facts, and one of them is that a huge portion of America still supports him.
#15103999
jimjam wrote:America is obviously great again. Hatred and anger reign supreme …………...

Image


FAKE NEWS

You have problem with people defending their private property from a violent mob?. The mob crashed a gate of private property and the home owner defended it. Damn straight thank god for the second amendment.

Did you know the guy in the picture is a lawyer and he currently has a case where he represents a black man verses the police.

This kind of propaganda has gone too far. People rail on FOX New yet they slurp up the lies of the mainstream media like oysters.
#15104004
Atlantis wrote:@Istanbuller, I admire your dogged determination as a defender of lost causes. At this point, Trump is already finished, he's politically dead.

His choices are between suffering the most humiliating defeat in US history or retreating from the presidential race now.

We need more popcorn to watch from the gallery how the populists and autocrats of this world will come tumbling down after Trump.

The pandemic has rung in a paradigm shift in world politics and people will start taking climate change seriously.


:lol:

I'm going to have to remind myself of this post after the Presidential elections in November. Trump may possibly lose, anything's possible, but the rest of this post is just the absolute height of wishful thinking on your part.
#15104009
annatar1914 wrote::lol:

I'm going to have to remind myself of this post after the Presidential elections in November. Trump may possibly lose, anything's possible, but the rest of this post is just the absolute height of wishful thinking on your part.



I think Trump is still strong because the way the disillusionment has been going in the USA? A lot of people are going to sit it out. They don't want to risk covid for standing in line to vote in person and people who tried to get mail-in ballots are finding obstructions.

This whole deal smells rotten Annatar.

The best thing is to organize people to break the two-party chokehold on the American system of politics. It needs to have internal and external cleansing.
#15104052
Finfinder wrote:FAKE NEWS

You have problem with people defending their private property from a violent mob?. The mob crashed a gate of private property and the home owner defended it. Damn straight thank god for the second amendment.

Did you know the guy in the picture is a lawyer and he currently has a case where he represents a black man verses the police.

This kind of propaganda has gone too far. People rail on FOX New yet they slurp up the lies of the mainstream media like oysters.


My statement stands ……………. hatred and anger reign supreme. Half the country hates the other half. This is likely all you have ever known but I am so old that I can remember when people were generally nice to each other and if someone had an opinion that differed from your own …………… you respected the person and his/her opinion :eek: . ……………….. Politicians and "Talk Show" shills (ON BOTH "SIDES" MY FRIEND) have learned well that there is much profit and power in spreading hate and anger.

I am so grateful that I had the good years and will not regret leaving this hateful mess to you.

ps I am not dumb enough to be either a "liberal" nor a "conservative" and not dumb enough to not call em the way I see em and think for myself. That's why I am up here in Maine where folks talk straight and are civil and friendly and where wearing a mask is not a political statement but an act of common sense. For the record ……… Maine's virus infection rate is going down while Florida is becoming a leper colony .

"Did you know the guy in the picture is a lawyer and he currently has a case where he represents a black man verses the police. " I assume that you have seen evidence for this and are not slurping up a media lie :hmm:

pps I own 3 pistols and am not dumb enough to be peeking out my window waiting for someone coming to take them away from me. I have a life.

ppps in 2 weeks my nephew, my brother and I are renting a charter boat to go deep sea fishing on the North Atlantic :)
#15104066
jimjam wrote:My statement stands ……………. hatred and anger reign supreme. Half the country hates the other half. This is likely all you have ever known but I am so old that I can remember when people were generally nice to each other and if someone had an opinion that differed from your own …………… you respected the person and his/her opinion :eek: . ……………….. Politicians and "Talk Show" shills (ON BOTH "SIDES" MY FRIEND) have learned well that there is much profit and power in spreading hate and anger.

I am so grateful that I had the good years and will not regret leaving this hateful mess to you.

ps I am not dumb enough to be either a "liberal" nor a "conservative" and not dumb enough to not call em the way I see em and think for myself. That's why I am up here in Maine where folks talk straight and are civil and friendly and where wearing a mask is not a political statement but an act of common sense. For the record ……… Maine's virus infection rate is going down while Florida is becoming a leper colony .

"Did you know the guy in the picture is a lawyer and he currently has a case where he represents a black man verses the police. " I assume that you have seen evidence for this and are not slurping up a media lie :hmm:

pps I own 3 pistols and am not dumb enough to be peeking out my window waiting for someone coming to take them away from me. I have a life.

ppps in 2 weeks my nephew, my brother and I are renting a charter boat to go deep sea fishing on the North Atlantic :)



Fair enough my friend and I was more replying (not about you) to people who consume this information.

And I'm pointing out maybe that wasn't the best example. Let's call it exactly what it was, an angry mob forcing themselves on private property and threatening violence to these home owners. They threatened to kill them and their dog. Why? These people did nothing wrong, and protecting themselves is very different from displaying anger and hatred towards others. They were the victims of what you described not an example as you inferred.

Nice hope the striper run is good this year. Our anual trip to Maine was canceled unfortunately.
#15104099
Tainari88 wrote:I think Trump is still strong because the way the disillusionment has been going in the USA? A lot of people are going to sit it out. They don't want to risk covid for standing in line to vote in person and people who tried to get mail-in ballots are finding obstructions.

This whole deal smells rotten Annatar.

The best thing is to organize people to break the two-party chokehold on the American system of politics. It needs to have internal and external cleansing.


Trump has his own dynamic, which is difficult for me to describe in one post. I've been most emphatic for years now that he absolutely is not what his persona suggests in public. His voters (not necessarily ''Conservatives'' although there is an overlap) too are not what the Liberals try to paint them as-the Liberals simply do not understand over half the very country they live in, at all, and it will cost them dearly in many ways.

Dedicated voters will vote no matter what. This is the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party as we've known it, and the GOP Establishment as well; wealthy, corrupt and gerontocratic, their time is almost over. Even Trump is but a transitional figure; an Ayn Randian Objectivist type posing as an ''Andrew Jackson'' Populist.

A multi-party system in America would certainly help I think; ideologues would get their political purity, while they'd also be forced to coalition build with people whose ideas they didn't necessarily like, while voters would feel represented better.

I've suggested before a recall of representatives system, with delegates legally bound and mandated to vote exactly as their voters want them to, and those in violation could possibly be replaced automatically via a recall petition if the majority of their voters disagreed with their decisions.
#15104101
Istanbuller wrote:You all may have noticed that Democrats and Trump oppenents started to fool themselves again just like they did in 2016 election.

I have seen numerous polls on liberal media recently. There was also one on Fox News. All show that Joe Biden has double digit lead over Donald Trump. I feel like it is dejavu when I see these polls and news.

What do you think?



I think this is an oversimplification.

To the very least, the problem about polls in USA presidential elections are that state-wise results are often overlooked. Some media knew what they should direct people at and started to say swinging or even GOP states would change Blue in this election.

If some members here are correct, though, Americans should defend their voting rights first.

P.S. I think the post above mine is very inspirational.
#15104123
annatar1914 wrote:Trump has his own dynamic, which is difficult for me to describe in one post. I've been most emphatic for years now that he absolutely is not what his persona suggests in public. His voters (not necessarily ''Conservatives'' although there is an overlap) too are not what the Liberals try to paint them as-the Liberals simply do not understand over half the very country they live in, at all, and it will cost them dearly in many ways.

Dedicated voters will vote no matter what. This is the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party as we've known it, and the GOP Establishment as well; wealthy, corrupt and gerontocratic, their time is almost over. Even Trump is but a transitional figure; an Ayn Randian Objectivist type posing as an ''Andrew Jackson'' Populist.

A multi-party system in America would certainly help I think; ideologues would get their political purity, while they'd also be forced to coalition build with people whose ideas they didn't necessarily like, while voters would feel represented better.

I've suggested before a recall of representatives system, with delegates legally bound and mandated to vote exactly as their voters want them to, and those in violation could possibly be replaced automatically via a recall petition if the majority of their voters disagreed with their decisions.


I like this solution a lot.

it is fair and well thought out.

i just find the American mentality really limited Annatar. In Mexico the Mexican voters don't have to be told that some billionaire is not about representing some 'bracero' or field worker. For them that is lunacy to believe some Hidalgo or bourgeois or noveau riche fool is going to represent the blue collar working class interests. It just doesn't compute with most Latin Americans.

That it computes with Americans who hate liberals and I don't blame them? But the solution is not some Trump man. At all.
#15104145
annatar1914 wrote:Trump has his own dynamic, which is difficult for me to describe in one post. I've been most emphatic for years now that he absolutely is not what his persona suggests in public. His voters (not necessarily ''Conservatives'' although there is an overlap) too are not what the Liberals try to paint them as-the Liberals simply do not understand over half the very country they live in, at all, and it will cost them dearly in many ways.

Dedicated voters will vote no matter what. This is the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party as we've known it, and the GOP Establishment as well; wealthy, corrupt and gerontocratic, their time is almost over. Even Trump is but a transitional figure; an Ayn Randian Objectivist type posing as an ''Andrew Jackson'' Populist.

A multi-party system in America would certainly help I think; ideologues would get their political purity, while they'd also be forced to coalition build with people whose ideas they didn't necessarily like, while voters would feel represented better.

I've suggested before a recall of representatives system, with delegates legally bound and mandated to vote exactly as their voters want them to, and those in violation could possibly be replaced automatically via a recall petition if the majority of their voters disagreed with their decisions.


Trump is most certainly not an Objectivist*, nor does he hew to any other recognizable ideological principle. He is, if anything, a solipsist, whose every external action is only justifiable insofar as it props up his internal reality. In practice, this simply means he runs an ongoing con designed to put money in his pocket. He's taken the traditional GOP exhortation to run government like a business, and carried it a step further: he run's government as his own personal business.

The existing government and Party structures aren't being superceded. This is a comforting illusion propagated to convince you that real structural change is finally at hand. These party structures are merely the tools the the oligarchy currently employ. As they lose their effectiveness, they will ultimately place troops in the street and abandon the pretense of representative democracy.

So, to put it mildly, a multiparty system won't be tolerated. Even accurately counting votes is now a defunct concept belonging to some distant past. Controlling two parties is a complex affair - no way will extra parties be permitted.

-------

*This is not to say that Objectivists (and others) haven't seized on Trump as an avatar. It simply means they won't get what they expect.
#15104150
annatar1914 wrote:Trump has his own dynamic

As I have alluded before IMO the American 2 party system has been corrupted beyond recognition and, most likely beyond repair, by the influence of "special interests" and their greed/money. What's next? I don't know ….. more of the same with more elaborate propaganda perhaps. Us serfs are left with the job of discerning and voting for the lesser of the evils. Trump is a repulsive con artist but I would be ok with that if he were competent for the position he has. He is running America as he has his businesses. Run em into bankruptcy and get out. Over $8,000,000,000,000 of debt under his guidance. There will be no bankruptcy this time as America can create unlimited $ out of thin air. Peons will be left with the equivalent of bankruptcy via inflation. I am a Yankee by temperament. Frugal, zero debt and careful with $ ……. I failed to understand how his vaunted tax reduction granting billionaires another billion or so would make America great again.

as an aside ………… I see the murder of JFK to be a turning point it American history. What are your thoughts on this?
#15104157
Tainari88 wrote:I like this solution a lot.

it is fair and well thought out.

i just find the American mentality really limited Annatar. In Mexico the Mexican voters don't have to be told that some billionaire is not about representing some 'bracero' or field worker. For them that is lunacy to believe some Hidalgo or bourgeois or noveau riche fool is going to represent the blue collar working class interests. It just doesn't compute with most Latin Americans.

That it computes with Americans who hate liberals and I don't blame them? But the solution is not some Trump man. At all.


Well, it's a mentality that's been deliberately limited, between these two parties one quickly discovers that they're really the two wings of one party, that of the Elites, and so the Elites (whenever they feel possible discontent) offer to the people ''outsiders'' like President Barack Obama and President Donald Trump, that are anything but outsiders to the system in reality-they've been working for it in some way all their adult lives. There's enough personality there to offer some excitement and a few issues that no ''side'' of this rigged system ever plans to work on correcting, but which serve to energize and motivate a few.

Not sure if this will go away on it's own anytime soon.
#15104161
jimjam wrote:
as an aside ………… I see the murder of JFK to be a turning point it American history. What are your thoughts on this?


@jimjam , I think JFK's assassination is the culmination of the Cold War and American Elites networking with the remnants of the Fascists in order to bring about a post-socialist new era in which no element of concern for the common man exists, and in which problematic peoples are eliminated entirely.

@quetzalcoatl , you said;

Trump is most certainly not an Objectivist*, nor does he hew to any other recognizable ideological principle. He is, if anything, a solipsist, whose every external action is only justifiable insofar as it props up his internal reality. In practice, this simply means he runs an ongoing con designed to put money in his pocket. He's taken the traditional GOP exhortation to run government like a business, and carried it a step further: he run's government as his own personal business.


He's an Objectivist, because that's what a ''John Galt'' would do if they became President; run the government as a business, and limit government functions except when firmly dealing with ''savages'', as Ayn Rand might put it, who are outside Rand's concept of persons capable of rational and reciprocal relations for mutual benefit.

I could be wrong, wish I am, but that's what I'm seeing so far.
Last edited by annatar1914 on 01 Jul 2020 01:26, edited 1 time in total.

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