New Rules after the November Coup - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15112327
This is not a conspiracy theory. I want a serious discussion.

In November Trump will be "reelected". He will do this by taking whatever steps are necessary to nullify the votes of those who oppose him. He may even federalize the National Guard to do it. There is really no reason for him not to. He will, shortly after leaving office, be arrested and he knows it. Once in office ostensibly for the next four years he will be even more dangerous.

So there is the deal. Is it wise for any American to post anti Trump stuff on a forum like this? Clearly identities are not carefully protected from a government actor. It is probably not even possible to do it. We already know that Trump will stop at nothing to destroy his "enemies" and that our gutted congress can do nothing to stop him. The US military could stop him from stealing the election but they won't. Republicans in congress are so terrified that they will not join democrats to stop him and he would just ignore them if he tried.

So what is the plan for surviving the end of US democracy? I am very serious about this. If I had a kid I would advise him to keep his head down, register as a republican or at worst an independent, and not discuss politics with anyone. If I was black I would plan to leave the country if I had the resources. Older American should start to figure out how to live without Social Security or Medicaid.

So serious question. Is it safe to keep posting here?
#15112354
Personally, I'm not going to worry about it a lot.

99.9% of the administration's efforts (whether that happens to be Trump or Biden) will of necessity center on quelling unrest in the streets. 30 million are already in the eviction pipeline and another 50 million (or thereabouts) are living on borrowed time. If things get so bad they start coming after pofo posters my shit is done for anyway.
#15112360
As a foreign-born (and living) American citizen I fully expect to be drone striked when the American Republic formally becomes the American Empire. My own government are such pushovers that they will probably thank our new reptilian overlords for their service. I just hope there are as many civilian casualties as possible when it happens. Everyone knows that the more civilian collateral damage there was during an assassination, the higher the priority for assassination in the first place.

Got to get my after life cred up somehow. :excited:
#15112832
Drlee wrote:We already know that Trump will stop at nothing to destroy his "enemies" and that our gutted congress can do nothing to stop him.

He hasn't even fired establishment actors like current FBI director Christopher Wray. For a man who promised to drain the swamp, he's been quite okay with staffers, preferring to try to get along with people rather than wholesale firing 10s of thousands of federal government employees.

How many Democrats has he prosecuted the way they have come after him? Hillary Clinton is still free, and she's certainly criminal.

Drlee wrote:The US military could stop him from stealing the election but they won't.

How? What does the military know about elections? Pretty much nothing. You were a career military man. How would the military do something like that?

Drlee wrote:So serious question. Is it safe to keep posting here?

Legally, the risk is to Trump supporters, not his detractors. However, the Democrats are focused on media personalities, office holders, bureaucrats, academics and major donors. I don't think you have anything to worry about. I stopped donating making political donations in 2006, so I'm really not on their radar.

quetzlcoatl wrote:99.9% of the administration's efforts (whether that happens to be Trump or Biden) will of necessity center on quelling unrest in the streets. 30 million are already in the eviction pipeline and another 50 million (or thereabouts) are living on borrowed time. If things get so bad they start coming after pofo posters my shit is done for anyway.

That's more or less the issue. The latest generation of "woke" progressives have to learn the difference between theory and reality and why feckless social policies don't work. They don't understand it. When I was young, I had to learn the hard way that being smart didn't mean I was always right or that people would necessarily agree. I also had to learn the difference between logic and empiricism. Today's left is ripping itself to shreds.
#15112924
blackjack21 wrote:He hasn't even fired establishment actors like current FBI director Christopher Wray. For a man who promised to drain the swamp, he's been quite okay with staffers, preferring to try to get along with people rather than wholesale firing 10s of thousands of federal government employees.

How many Democrats has he prosecuted the way they have come after him? Hillary Clinton is still free, and she's certainly criminal.


I think both of these suggest Trump is actually much more colluded with the establishment than his apologists like you or the likes of Member Hindsite believe.


blackjack21 wrote:Legally, the risk is to Trump supporters, not his detractors.


I do not think either of you guys will be in danger. Media being controlled by corporates who often conflict in interest means the government simply has no power to suppress the other should it take a side.

For example, does anyone think the likes of Bloomberg would stay silent if all anti-Trumpers here like Member late or jimjam are arrested? The owner of PoFo is not even American for goodness sake.


blackjack21 wrote:When I was young, I had to learn the hard way that being smart didn't mean I was always right or that people would necessarily agree.


If my observation is correct you seem to end up gleefully posting opinions that most people with at least some conscience will disagree, although not as repulsive as those on the opposite side of the spectrum.
#15112937
Drlee wrote:So serious question. Is it safe to keep posting here?


Biden picked Kamala Harris, so Trump is going to win fairly.

I mean that's the biggest democratic footbullet since the Dukakis Tank photo.
#15112956
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mail-ball ... -1.5677465

    The U.S. election won't be resolved on election night. Here's why

    Alexander Panetta · CBC News · Posted: Aug 07, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: August 7

    Imagine the following U.S. election scenario: It's the night of Nov. 3, and Donald Trump vaults into a staggering lead, the kind that normally assures re-election.

    His jubilant supporters are convinced he's won a second term.

    That joy, however, soon turns to white-hot rage.

    An extraordinarily high number of people this year are voting by mail — and it generally takes longer to count mail-in ballots, which require separate identity checks and separate processes for disputes.

    Days later, Trump's lead has vanished.

    That's because city-dwellers in Philadelphia, Miami, Detroit and Milwaukee are more likely to support presumptive Democratic candidate Joe Biden, less inclined to venture out to a polling station during a pandemic and far more likely to vote by mail.

    Imagine the disputes that would follow. For a glimpse of how ugly it could get, a 55-page paper from the head of the election-law program at Ohio State University lays out a series of potential legal and political feuds.

    "This country would break in half," a Fox News host, Brian Kilmeade, said this week, envisioning a scenario in which Trump, a Republican, appears to have won on election night, only to be declared the loser days later.

    Now stop imagining this scenario. And start bracing for it.

    The United States is lumbering toward a perfect electoral storm that could test the foundations of a democracy already battered by partisan loathing.

    That's why election experts are warning that the public had better prepare for a topsy-turvy post-election period following the Nov. 3 vote.

    It has already begun unfolding, according to a warning this week from a Michigan state official.

    A recipe for turmoil

    Mailed ballots are the latest battlefield in the country's myriad political culture wars.

    Trump is dominant among voters who intend to cast ballots in person. National and swing-state polls in Florida and Arizona show Republicans as much as 33 points likelier to vote that way.

    The same polls show Biden leading the race overall because he has an even larger edge among those who intend to vote by mail.

    Add a few more ingredients to this perfect recipe for chaos.

    Trump supporters have said they would not accept a Biden win based on mailed ballots, according to one poll.

    They also want the winner declared immediately on election night — echoing Trump's own demands.

    That leads to the final variable: Trump himself.

    The inimitable president, with his never-admit-failure personality, declares U.S. elections rigged even when he's not on the ballot.

    He did so again and again in 2012, even calling for a revolution against Barack Obama; he did it in 2016; and he's doing it now, tweeting repeatedly without evidence about fraudulent mail-in ballots.

    He's doing more than complaining.

    His campaign is also involved in lawsuits to constrain mail-in voting, and Trump himself has suggested these suits are central to his election strategy.

    "My biggest [re-election] risk," is how Trump, in one interview, described losing these suits.

    .....

This could have been predicted after the impeachment fiasco.
#15112961
Pants-of-dog wrote:This could have been predicted after the impeachment fiasco.


Biden picking Kamala Harris is going to piss off the Bernie Bros and the progressive wing of the party anyway, so it could be a clear Trump win on Election night and still a clear win once mail-in votes are counted.

Kanye West's obvious attempted black vote splitting may have affected his VP decision.
#15112964
colliric wrote:Biden picking Kamala Harris is going to piss off the Bernie Bros and the progressive wing of the party anyway, so it could be a clear Trump win on Election night and still a clear win once mail-in votes are counted.

Kanye West's obvious attempted black vote splitting may have affected his VP decision.


True. But this thread is absolutely hysterical projection, like most things Liberal do these days since President Trump inhabited their minds. He owns them, and they're too arrogant and stupid to face it or him with any kind of rationality.
#15112969
colliric wrote:Biden picking Kamala Harris is going to piss off the Bernie Bros and the progressive wing of the party anyway, so it could be a clear Trump win on Election night and still a clear win once mail-in votes are counted.

Kanye West's obvious attempted black vote splitting may have affected his VP decision.


Maybe, but I doubt it. Biden being Biden is enough to have already “pissed off the Bernie Bros” as it were. Harris’ appointment is neither surprising nor much of a game changer.

But that does not change the fact that there will be a lot of insecurity on election night.
#15112970
colliric wrote:Biden picking Kamala Harris is going to piss off the Bernie Bros and the progressive wing of the party anyway, so it could be a clear Trump win on Election night and still a clear win once mail-in votes are counted.

Kanye West's obvious attempted black vote splitting may have affected his VP decision.


They were already pissed off, and still are. Which cities have been most hit by the protests since the killing of George Floyd, those governed by Democrats or by Republicans?

I wouldn't be so sure this VP pick will hurt Democrats. Plus, I think everyone agrees she was the leading candidate for the nomination.
#15112973
blackjack21 wrote: being smart didn't mean I was always right


If you're smart you know that it's not about being right, if you're smart what you're shooting for is epistemic rationality and that leaves you with more questions than answers. Smart people aren't the ones that are always right, smart people are the ones that are asking the right questions.
#15112974
Patrickov wrote:I think both of these suggest Trump is actually much more colluded with the establishment than his apologists like you or the likes of Member Hindsite believe.

Trump is not anti-capitalist. However, he does oppose reckless globalism.

Patrickov wrote:I do not think either of you guys will be in danger. Media being controlled by corporates who often conflict in interest means the government simply has no power to suppress the other should it take a side.

If millions of people were on PoFo and we held significant influence, they would be coming for us. As it is, PoFo isn't on that many people's radars.

Patrickov wrote:For example, does anyone think the likes of Bloomberg would stay silent if all anti-Trumpers here like Member late or jimjam are arrested?

The likes of Bloomberg isn't silent unless there is bad news about the establishment. For example, black Trump supporter Bernell Tramell was murdered, the media embargoed the story.

Patrickov wrote:If my observation is correct you seem to end up gleefully posting opinions that most people with at least some conscience will disagree, although not as repulsive as those on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Can you provide an example?

colliric wrote:Biden picking Kamala Harris is going to piss off the Bernie Bros and the progressive wing of the party anyway, so it could be a clear Trump win on Election night and still a clear win once mail-in votes are counted.

Kanye West's obvious attempted black vote splitting may have affected his VP decision.

Trump has a work ethic and a strategy, which is more than can be said of a lot of rank-and-file Republican politicians. Consequently, Trump is a real threat to the Democrats in pulling on the black vote. He doesn't need to win the black vote. If he just peels of 3-5% more than usual, it's going to be a fluid situation. That's why the Democrats have gone so crazy on race. However, Trump doesn't let up, where other Republicans would. He points out straight away that these riots are hurting black neighborhoods, defunding the police hurts black neighborhoods, and blacks want the same level of police or MORE police, not less.

annatar1914 wrote:True. But this thread is absolutely hysterical projection, like most things Liberal do these days since President Trump inhabited their minds. He owns them, and they're too arrogant and stupid to face it or him with any kind of rationality.

I would say arrogant or stupid. There are a lot of intelligent people who simply turn off the frontal cortex and languish in the limbic system. Trump has successfully driven them quite crazy. He's frankly a master at it.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Biden being Biden is enough to have already “pissed off the Bernie Bros” as it were. Harris’ appointment is neither surprising nor much of a game changer.

I think it's the black vote that becomes more vulnerable. Harris put a lot of black people in jail for mere marijuana possession, while joking that she was a smoker herself. Biden is the author of the 1994 crime bill that saw incarceration increase tenfold.
#15112978
The topic is how Trump and others are fighting to take advantage of the uncertainty that will prevail on election night. I see no one has refuted my point that this uncertainty will happen for various reasons, and that Trump will try to use this to stay in power.
#15113041
blackjack21 wrote:


I would say arrogant or stupid. There are a lot of intelligent people who simply turn off the frontal cortex and languish in the limbic system. Trump has successfully driven them quite crazy. He's frankly a master at it.



I agree, but there's more to it than that. It's psychological projection that they're attributing to President Trump the inability to accept the results of the 2020 elections, when it's clear that they never really psychologically accepted the results of the 2016 election, and are unlikely to psychologically accept a loss in 2020 either. We're dealing generally with well to do guilt laden white liberals who have a need to be in charge, and President Trump (whatever else is is or isn't) stands in the way of them and their endless quest to feel better about themselves (and have power over other's lives-for their own good of course). These are profoundly disgusting human beings, who lack the self-reflection and introspection to change but hypocritically demand that the working people less fortunate than themselves foot the bills and the social costs for their programs while living in their safe zones far from the chaos they create.
#15113065
Pants-of-dog wrote:The topic is how Trump and others are fighting to take advantage of the uncertainty that will prevail on election night. I see no one has refuted my point that this uncertainty will happen for various reasons, and that Trump will try to use this to stay in power.


I am refuting you. Kamala Harris is a shitty VP choice and Biden is getting too senile.

TRUMP-PENCE will win clear. Most likely with an increased margin over the 2016 election.

The Democratic Party still refuses to learn they've elected mostly early 40s Presidents since Kennedy.

Can't ever learn from their own fucken winning campaigns. Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama.... All young Presidents with high charisma. Only LBJ is the odd one out, but he didn't win his way into the job.
#15113068
annatar1914 wrote:I agree, but there's more to it than that. It's psychological projection that they're attributing to President Trump the inability to accept the results of the 2020 elections, when it's clear that they never really psychologically accepted the results of the 2016 election, and are unlikely to psychologically accept a loss in 2020 either.

I think this is actually a phenomena of the two ideologically distinct (or disjunct to use the mathematical term) parties. in simplistic theory the idea is that people have a choice between two parties that are different but not so extreme that that they are unacceptable. The problem is that two party politics because the parties have to pretend to be different things to such a wide range of people, leads to a dumbing down of politics to a level below the level of the average voter. The parties spend most of the time trying to hide their intentions.

So although the great boon of the two party system is that its supposed to give two legitimate choices, the way the parties compete is by delegitimising the other side. Clinton is a rapist. The 2000 Election result wasn't fair. Bush is a war criminal, he shouldn't be allowed to remain President. Obama is not a natural born citizen its not constitutional for him to be President. Obama is a secret Muslim. Trump is a racist. Trump only won by help from Russia. Hilary belongs in Jail. Biden has dementia.

Whether any of these accusations is true or not is beside the point. The point is always that the other guy /gal is not a legitimate acceptable choice and if they win is not a legitimate winner and even if they had won fairly deserves to be impeeched.
#15113073
@colliric

I think you are letting your feelings about women and black people overwhelm your rational mind.

Harris is strong enough as a VP pick that Biden’s odds have increased since he made the announcement. She appeals to women, blacks, and moderates.
#15113093
Rich wrote:I think this is actually a phenomena of the two ideologically distinct (or disjunct to use the mathematical term) parties. in simplistic theory the idea is that people have a choice between two parties that are different but not so extreme that that they are unacceptable. The problem is that two party politics because the parties have to pretend to be different things to such a wide range of people, leads to a dumbing down of politics to a level below the level of the average voter. The parties spend most of the time trying to hide their intentions.

So although the great boon of the two party system is that its supposed to give two legitimate choices, the way the parties compete is by delegitimising the other side. Clinton is a rapist. The 2000 Election result wasn't fair. Bush is a war criminal, he shouldn't be allowed to remain President. Obama is not a natural born citizen its not constitutional for him to be President. Obama is a secret Muslim. Trump is a racist. Trump only won by help from Russia. Hilary belongs in Jail. Biden has dementia.

Whether any of these accusations is true or not is beside the point. The point is always that the other guy /gal is not a legitimate acceptable choice and if they win is not a legitimate winner and even if they had won fairly deserves to be impeeched.


Sure, but neither party is going to knowingly disrupt the socio-economic system upon which the whole thing rests, but they'll expend a great deal of time and money and energy telling the people that the other party will disrupt the system. Anyone who doesn't understand that Biden/Harris was pretty well baked into the electoral scenario simply doesn't understand at all. Sanders took a dive for Biden, Biden will take a dive for Trump. Everything else is a distraction to convince the people that the Democratic party was as serious about 2020 as they appeared to be in 2016, if not more so. And nothing could be further from the truth.
#15113094
Trump ain't getting re-elected. Have you seen his ratings!

And Trump gets hardly any love on here - except from Hindsite and a few other minions.

So even if Trump stumbled on here, which requires reading, he isn't going to persecute anyone because who are we really? So you're safe.
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