Trump on trial - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15157922
Beren wrote:And many will argue his real crime was standing up to the establishment.


One man's revolutionary is anothers terrorist.
User avatar
By Beren
#15157959
Rancid wrote:One man's revolutionary is anothers terrorist.

Or putschist, or mob boss. The problem is that unlike Al Capone, Trump is a political figure (and former president), so sending him to jail would have a bad optics, and would be dangerous actually. Everyone knows Trump's a conman and a fraudster that could always get away with it, so why can't he now? He won't be jailed anyway, he'll be only prosecuted and fined perhaps, but even that's highly dubious. And he'd be a victim of a witch-hunt again, of course, which is so common nowadays. :lol:
User avatar
By Rancid
#15157966
Beren wrote:sending him to jail would have a bad optics


Why is it bad optics for a president but not bad optics for a governor?

Should a president be above the law?
User avatar
By Beren
#15157968
Rancid wrote:Why is it bad optics for a president but not bad optics for a governor?

Good question, however, that's just how it is and governors are not so privileged as presidents are. Governors are not really more than high-ranking fully responsible officials, while presidents are. There's clearly a qualitative difference between a governor and a president somehow. Maybe because they represent the country to the outside world, or they represent the unity of the country, I don't know. As a head of state there's a lot of symbolism around them, maybe that's why.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15157989
Beren wrote:Trump is a political figure (and former president), so sending him to jail would have a bad optics


On the contrary. The trump cult/mob is largely confined to America. It's rather obvious to the world community that America had an asshole/crook running the show and it is to America's credit to show that nobody is above the law ……. regardless how many lawyers or crazed mobs he has in his employ.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15157991
Beren wrote:Or putschist, or mob boss. The problem is that unlike Al Capone, Trump is a political figure (and former president), so sending him to jail would have a bad optics, and would be dangerous actually. Everyone knows Trump's a conman and a fraudster that could always get away with it, so why can't he now? He won't be jailed anyway, he'll be only prosecuted and fined perhaps, but even that's highly dubious. And he'd be a victim of a witch-hunt again, of course, which is so common nowadays. :lol:

The optics of a criminal walking free because he/she is important is worse.
Apparently we already stablished that while president, people are above the law. Now former ex-presidents are also above the law. Whats next? VPs? Senators? Supreme court judges? Artists with over 100million twitter followers? :lol:
User avatar
By jimjam
#15157996
Donald Trump is the king of racketeering. No where is that more evident than Atlantic City. As usual he stiffed everyone with his bills from contractors to venders to lenders to the city and he abandoned his employees. Trump's empire depends on other people's wealth, tax breaks and questionable legal money deals.His has failed in just about any business venture he went into.

Image
Trump Plaza and Casino Hotel ^ :lol: Atlantic City
User avatar
By Beren
#15158091
jimjam wrote:On the contrary. The trump cult/mob is largely confined to America. It's rather obvious to the world community that America had an asshole/crook running the show and it is to America's credit to show that nobody is above the law ……. regardless how many lawyers or crazed mobs he has in his employ.

XogGyux wrote:The optics of a criminal walking free because he/she is important is worse.
Apparently we already stablished that while president, people are above the law. Now former ex-presidents are also above the law. Whats next? VPs? Senators? Supreme court judges? Artists with over 100million twitter followers? :lol:

Anyway, guys, Trump won't be jailed for tax fraud or being a mob boss or an arsehole or a crook. He wasn't even successfully impeached after his fans had breached into the Capitol. He could be jailed only for treason, which is not even on the table. He's actually planning to run for president again, so, besides trolling, you'd rather prepare for that.
By B0ycey
#15158174
Beren wrote:Anyway, guys, Trump won't be jailed for tax fraud or being a mob boss or an arsehole or a crook. He wasn't even successfully impeached after his fans had breached into the Capitol. He could be jailed only for treason, which is not even on the table. He's actually planning to run for president again, so, besides trolling, you'd rather prepare for that.


He wasn't impeached due to him being innocent of insurrection and yet he still couldn't muster a simple majority in a political pissing contest. Nonetheless he could also be jailed for attempted vote rigging as well. If you throw enough shit on the wall some of it will stick. Trumps only chance of avoiding jail is for the momentum of everything to slow significantly. Everything at the moment is coming out of the cracks so the opposite is occurring as it happens. He also doesn't have the finance means to payoff his misdemeanors and his adversaries are in power. Sure his jailing will make him a martyr to the loony right, but it is clear that these morons cannot be mentally healed and perhaps the best way to move forward now is to chop of the head of Mandusa and unite the people who can be united by social reform.
By Rich
#15158215
Trump wasn't impeached because Nancy Pelosi, didn't want him impeached. There was a moment when there was enough momentum that Trump could have been swept away. But Pelosi deliberately slowed things down to allow Trump to recover. Trump originally entered the 2016 primary at the behest and with the blessing of the Clintons. Bill, Nancy and Hilary are not stupid in their calculations regarding Trump. Trump may have repeatedly outperformed expectations, including my own, but the figures are quite clear, Trump underperformed the House vote in both 2016 and 2020.

Trump is an electoral liability and the smart Dems will be praying that Trump can win the nomination in 2024, in fact they will be looking for some way to invoke the spectre of Trump in 2022.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15158217
B0ycey wrote:
He wasn't impeached due to him being innocent of insurrection and yet he still couldn't muster a simple majority in a political pissing contest. Nonetheless he could also be jailed for attempted vote rigging as well. If you throw enough shit on the wall some of it will stick. Trumps only chance of avoiding jail is for the momentum of everything to slow significantly. Everything at the moment is coming out of the cracks so the opposite is occurring as it happens. He also doesn't have the finance means to payoff his misdemeanors and his adversaries are in power. Sure his jailing will make him a martyr to the loony right, but it is clear that these morons cannot be mentally healed and perhaps the best way to move forward now is to chop of the head of Mandusa and unite the people who can be united by social reform.


He will get away with it all. I'm sure.

That said, I agree, this weird idea that we should not punish Trump (if he actually did break the law) is odd. In order to uphold the institutions this government supposedly stands on, it would only be right to punish him (if it can be proven he broke the law). Letting him slide because he was the president is the stuff of shithole countries.
By B0ycey
#15158223
Rancid wrote:He will get away with it all. I'm sure.

That said, I agree, this weird idea that we should not punish Trump (if he actually did break the law) is odd. In order to uphold the institutions this government supposedly stands on, it would only be right to punish him (if it can be proven he broke the law). Letting him slide because he was the president is the stuff of shithole countries.


See, my instinct says he will get away with it purely because he was president. Not that it would bother me, but it kind of puts a stain on the US diplomatically if you imprison your President... or as Beren would call it "Bad optics". And had he just acknowledged the election defeat I am sure Biden would have given Trump all the customs a former president would usually expect such a national security briefings and not be in danger of imprisonment at all. But if you look at the chess pieces and see how things are moving, that would suggest that Trump isn't going to get away with it. There was a power play to impeach, then the Georgia proceedings and now his tax receipts. All the movements are against Trump and he doesn't have the financial means or political support to protect himself any more. McConnell is about as powerful as you can be in the Republican Party and he wasn't exactly giving Trump recommendations after he gave him an acquittal. So actually, I say watch this space. Maybe Biden will give him clemency if Trump starts to play ball. But if he still plays up and becomes a hinderance then I expect more skeletons to surface. His dodgy tax dealings is merely a decoy to fry this fish, and perhaps the real charges that Trump really should be worrying about are still being investigated. I still do not think Mueller is over.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15158227
B0ycey wrote:
See, my instinct says he will get away with it purely because he was president. Not that it would bother me, but it kind of puts a stain on the US diplomatically if you imprison your President... or as Beren would call it "Bad optics". And had he just acknowledged the election defeat I am sure Biden would have given Trump all the customs a former president would usually expect such a national security briefings and not be in danger of imprisonment at all. But if you look at the chess pieces and see how things are moving, that would suggest that Trump isn't going to get away with it. There was a power play to impeach, then the Georgia proceedings and now his tax receipts. All the movements are against Trump and he doesn't have the financial means or political support to protect himself any more. McConnell is about as powerful as you can be in the Republican Party and he wasn't exactly giving Trump recommendations after he gave him an acquittal. So actually, I say watch this space. Maybe Biden will give him clemency if Trump starts to play ball. But if he still plays up and becomes a hinderance then I expect more skeletons to surface. His dodgy tax dealings is merely a decoy to fry this fish, and perhaps the real charges that Trump really should be worrying about are still being investigated. I still do not think Mueller is over.


I agree with your post.

As for the bad optics, that can always be spun. Further, fuck optics, it's time to do what's fucking right for once.
By wat0n
#15158229
Beren wrote:Or putschist, or mob boss. The problem is that unlike Al Capone, Trump is a political figure (and former president), so sending him to jail would have a bad optics, and would be dangerous actually. Everyone knows Trump's a conman and a fraudster that could always get away with it, so why can't he now? He won't be jailed anyway, he'll be only prosecuted and fined perhaps, but even that's highly dubious. And he'd be a victim of a witch-hunt again, of course, which is so common nowadays. :lol:


It would be worse optics to create a privileged ex-Presidents class that is effectively above the law.
User avatar
By Yggdrasill
#15158253
I absolutely do not understand how anyone can think that jailing a former President is bad optics. How is it bad to send the message that no one is above the law? Is it embarrassing to have a corrupt leader - sure - but nowhere near as embarrassing as having a corrupt system. No one expects people to be perfect; leaders can be bad, voters can be stupid or misled. That happens. But so long as you maintain the integrity of the system, no matter how embarrassing any single hiccup may seem, you set an example to aspire to. The most stable countries are not the ones who avoid electing bad leaders - because happens to everyone eventually, but rather the ones who deal with bad leaders honestly, transparently, and fairly.

Folks, this is crisis management 101. It's exactly like Trump refusing to tell the American people how dangerous Covid actually was because he didn't want panic (or a drop in the stock market), thinking it would just go away and that the risk of thousands dying was worth it. Cover-ups are always worse than coming clean early and effectively, because problems don't go away on their own. They get worse over time.

I am always encouraged when corruption is revealed and prosecuted because it is human nature to try to cheat. It is inevitable and such cases coming to light helps me keep faith that the system is working. A nation without corruption cases is not one without corruption, just one in which corruption has such a strong hold that it goes unpunished. This is one of the few times when the overused and usually poorly applied adage is correct: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
User avatar
By Beren
#15158272
Yggdrasill wrote:I absolutely do not understand how anyone can think that jailing a former President is bad optics. How is it bad to send the message that no one is above the law?

It's bad optics because half the country would be outraged. It wouldn't send a bad message and it wouldn't be bad optics to me, however, it just won't happen regardless of whether how much anti-Trump people lobby for it.
User avatar
By Verv
#15158275
jimjam wrote:On the contrary. The trump cult/mob is largely confined to America. It's rather obvious to the world community that America had an asshole/crook running the show and it is to America's credit to show that nobody is above the law ……. regardless how many lawyers or crazed mobs he has in his employ.


I don't really think this is true. Yes, of course there are more Americans who like him, but who do you think Hungarians who voted for Orban, French who voted for LePen, and Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro say they like in American politics?
User avatar
By jimjam
#15158326
Verv wrote:I don't really think this is true. Yes, of course there are more Americans who like him, but who do you think Hungarians who voted for Orban, French who voted for LePen, and Brazilians who voted for Bolsonaro say they like in American politics?

Pew surveyed 13,273 adults from June 10 to Aug. 3 2020 in Canada, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, the U.K., Australia, Japan and South Korea. Opinion of the U.S. are tethered tightly to those about its president. Mr. Trump netted a median approval rating of 16 percent, with a low of 9 percent in Belgium and a high of only 25 percent in Japan.
User avatar
By Verv
#15158329
jimjam wrote:Pew surveyed 13,273 adults from June 10 to Aug. 3 2020 in Canada, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, the U.K., Australia, Japan and South Korea. Opinion of the U.S. are tethered tightly to those about its president. Mr. Trump netted a median approval rating of 16 percent, with a low of 9 percent in Belgium and a high of only 25 percent in Japan.


1 in 10 people liking the scurrilous & confrontational leader of a foreign superpower that all of the European media hate? I'll take it.

My rather left wing friend in Germany said that he even thinks the media does a very poor job there because they treated Trump's policies & situation like it was a foregone conclusion that it was dumb.

I am sure many are thinking, well that's because IT IS!, but this absolutely does not matter when it comes to journalistic integrity, IMO.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 11

In my opinion, masculinity has declined for all o[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

So have people given up on blaming that terrorist […]

@ingliz good to know, so why have double standar[…]

...Or maybe because there are many witnesses sayin[…]