Stormsmith wrote:Strip him of his wealth and properties as was done to Paul Manafort and all his post presidentI'll perks.
That's strictly prohibited by the fifth amendment. Do you realize the Bill of Rights was drafted to safeguard against people like you?
Stormsmith wrote:On second impeachment: historians will note that this was down to his party, not his innocence.
Then they would need to explain why he wasn't prosecuted the moment he left the presidency. The reason is that he is not guilty as a matter of law.
Verv wrote:Right, it would completely play into what Trump is saying, that he has been persecuted and subject to lies, disinformation, and legal processes that others would never have to face.
On the contrary, as Stormsmith points out, Manafort did have to face it. He also did not have to face it before hand, suggesting that he had some sort of non-prosecution agreement with the DoJ that did not apply to the special counsel.
Verv wrote:It also no longer seems to have relevance -- people can stomach looking closely at the sitting President of the US and playing hardball, but continuing these actions seems completely unnecessary.
It's obviously ridiculous to the country at large, but for the Janus that is the establishment, they had Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush in mind. Remember early in the primaries, I said the only person I DID NOT want was Joe Biden. Yet, the guy who came in fourth in Iowa, fifth in New Hampshire, and second in Nevada inexplicably had all the opponents who were doing better than him drop out, except for Elizabeth Warren whose job it was to undermine support for Bernie Sanders. Then, he started winning and promptly went into hiding until a few debates where he was roundly trounced even though the moderators were clearly trying to help him. The cabal has no end to its chicanery, but it's weak and unpopular in the United States now. They clearly do not understand why, so their standard answer is to try to attack the character of their strongest opponents. That's why Newsom and Cuomo are coming under attack from Harris now.
Verv wrote:Sure, maybe there's random financial irregularities or unscrupulous business practices that deserve to be looked into still, but this is the same for any giant institution, and we have to be careful that we are not looking at everything connected to Trump with a microscope while ignoring everyone else.
A man like Trump is papered over with lawyers.
Beren wrote:I mean how Trump should be dealt with politically, how he should be treated as a political problem or challenge, not as a corrupt businessman.
I don't think there is an effective remedy, because the establishment refuses to deal with the reasons Trump was elected (and then re-elected). Biden has even done things like repeal executive orders to have illegal alien sex offenders receive priority deportments. What on Earth would be in the interest of the United States to keep illegal alien sex offenders in the United States? The establishment cannot destroy Trump's character, because he was a known quantity going in and people voted for Trump in spite of his character, not because they overlooked something about him. On the contrary, it's Biden who received favorable press treatment and many would reconsider their votes had they known about the scandals associated with his son.
Beren wrote:In the OP I more-or-less mean to say that he should be dealt with by political means rather than using sheer (and brutal) legal force on him because the latter one would be politically ineffective, disruptive and finally counterproductive.
They are using legal means, because political means failed them. You have to seriously ask yourself questions like "Why would Biden rescind on an executive order prioritizing deportment of sex offender illegal aliens?" Who exactly would win in that scenario politically? There is virtually no significant constituency in the United States to welcome in the world's sex offenders. We're in the middle of a pandemic. Why is it a good idea to ban people from coming to the United States unless they have had a covid test within 72 hours of entry and tested negative--except if they are illegal aliens? The establishment makes no sense. They have lost credibility with the American people for a reason. They have lost politically for a reason. That is why they attack Trump legally. That is why they cheat in elections. That is why they try to gaslight the country with propaganda.
Even Biden's commentary like, "We're back!" or "America's back" rings hollow, because the UK is no longer part of the EU and neoliberal parties in Europe are in steep decline in favor of nationalist parties.
Beren wrote:I mean he's got away with anything so far and he didn't even need to be a special figure for that, he just needed a lot of lawyers.
A lot of lawyers will keep you out of jail and keep you from committing criminal acts. If you have civil cases against Trump, you can bring them, but he's quite adept at fighting them.
Wat0n wrote:You are forgetting tampering with vote counting in GA. That's also a felony.
He never had his hands on a single ballot. It'll never work. Instead, you'll just put the story of voter fraud front-and-center again, and already 3/4 of Republicans think it was fraud.
B0ycey wrote:I struggling to think why convicting someone of a serious crime is a bad idea. :?:
Why do you think it is a good idea? Democrats have been convicted of serious crimes, thrown out of office, and been re-elected. It seems that you think if you can get Trump convicted, you will undermine political support for him. As long as Trump has a monopoly on opposition to illegal immigration and free trade with China, he will have strong political support.
B0ycey wrote:It kind of sends the message that nobody is above the law.
It sends the message that anyone who opposes the non-democratic permanent political establishment will be subject to unwarranted investigations, prosecutions and punishments. That only pisses people off even more.
B0ycey wrote:And it might rattle the loony right for a few nights of civil unrest I guess.
If those crowds came armed, there is nothing the Capitol police could have done to stop them or protect members of Congress. That's why the fencing is there. They already have "bad optics." If Biden received 81M votes legitimately, he would scarcely need secret service protection except against the lone anarchist or something. Yet, we now have barrier fencing and razorwire around Congress--utterly defeating the imagery and pageantry of democracy. The person who needs to go is Nancy Pelosi. She has done immeasurable damage to the US because she was so easily trolled by Trump and could not stomach the fact that he triggered her endlessly.
Do you see barbed wire all over the Kremlin? Putin looks better than the US right now. Hell, even a ruthless absolute dictator like Kim Jong Il doesn't allow imagery like that.
B0ycey wrote:Whether Trump goes to jail really depends on whether he is regarded as a threat I suspect.
He has been regarded as a threat from the moment he won in 2016.
ness31 wrote:I don’t think he’s going to run again. He’s no spring chicken and I doubt he’d want to put himself through that shit again.
Trump had coat tails. So he's in a position to play king maker. He's going to decompress for awhile. However, he's not going to go quietly. He's already shown that. I have no idea what he will do, but he's not going to do nothing. He will settle some scores, no doubt.
"We have put together the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics."
-- Joe Biden