Derek Chauvin Trial - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Agent Steel
#15160343
The trial has begun for Derek Chauvin, the cop who killed George Floyd last year and created a national uproar.

I have heard that prosecutors are trying to include a 3rd degree murder charge in additional to the 2nd degree murder charge.

It seems that in order for him to be found guilty of the current charges they need to prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think the intent is clear and obvious. There is no question that Chauvin wanted to do harm to Mr. Floyd. If he had some other intent, what was it? The defense needs to come up with a reasonable explanation for why Chauvin kneeled on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes. They have nothing. Therefore I don't see how they can get him off.

There is a live stream of the proceedings being broadcast through youtube.

I hope Chauvin goes to jail. What do you hope?
#15160544
For some reason this reminded me of PoFo:
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"Protestors" have already set up an autonomous zone and I read that two people have been killed in it already.

Officer Derek Chauvin was following normal protocol:
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Evidence at trial says that Floyd's autopsy showed no evidence of life-threatening injuries and that he had fentanyl, THC and meth in his system.
By wat0n
#15160546
^ neck restraints were meant to be used when the person they are being applied on are actively resisting arrest. George Floyd was not actively resisting arrest under the MPD's own definitions.
By B0ycey
#15160549
With the sentencing penalties in America, Murder and Manslaughter are pretty much the same punishment. You aren't getting out of prison any time soon.

So basically this comes down to semantics today. Because he is either going to prison for the rest of his life with the chance of parole or he is going to prison for the rest of his life without the chance of parole. Either way, he is spending the rest of his life behind bars. That is what I think.
#15160609
wat0n wrote:^ neck restraints were meant to be used when the person they are being applied on are actively resisting arrest. George Floyd was not actively resisting arrest under the MPD's own definitions.

So as soon as he's subdued, you have to stop doing it? What if he tries to stand up? :lol:

Text from one of the actual official autopsies, not the private ones done to feed lawsuits:
Image
#15160614
This guy is screwed. Good luck getting a fair trial. Good luck being the judge and/or jury to let him off the hook lol. Usually it's the victim who has a hard time getting a fair trail. America is a stupid country sometimes.
By wat0n
#15160640
Wulfschilde wrote:So as soon as he's subdued, you have to stop doing it? What if he tries to stand up? :lol:

Text from one of the actual official autopsies, not the private ones done to feed lawsuits:
Image


No, you just don't do it if he isn't actively resisting arrest. Even worse, even if Chauvin had to use a neck restraint, why did he go for the unconscious one instead of the safer conscious neck restraint? I actually already made this point in the original big GF thread, so I'll just restate the policy in place at the time:

Original MPD policies wrote:Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

...

5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)

The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)

On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.

Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)

After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)

After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.

An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.


If you look at the videos, you can see GF was not actively resisting: He was not attacking or even threatening the MPD officers, but was seemingly just having a bad trip and scared (to the point of almost crying). He was passively resisting (not listening to the cops), not actively doing so - and hence neck restraints were not allowed by the policy in place in this situation. Even then, the unconscious restraint would have only been acceptable in very specific instances of active resistance.

So you tell me, how can this save Chauvin?
Last edited by wat0n on 12 Mar 2021 00:23, edited 1 time in total.
#15160779
Chauvin is about to win by a landslide:
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Without the private autopsy report, there isn't much of an argument for murder, which is what the prosecution appears to be going for.
By B0ycey
#15160780
Wulfschilde wrote:Chauvin is about to win by a landslide:
Image

Without the private autopsy report, there isn't much of an argument for murder, which is what the prosecution appears to be going for.


But the judge is allowing a third degree murder verdict. I do not see, given the video evidence and witness accounts, him getting off that charge.
#15160781
I would not be surprised to see him acquitted.

After all, the only thing he did was kill a black man. As a cop in the USA, he is statistically likely to walk away scot free.
By wat0n
#15160788
Wulfschilde wrote:Chauvin is about to win by a landslide:
Image

Without the private autopsy report, there isn't much of an argument for murder, which is what the prosecution appears to be going for.


The private and county autopsy reports were no meaningfully different from each other. They can aim for third degree murder, which is similar to manslaughter in other states. The second degree murder charge is harder to prove if it turns out Chauvin and GF didn't know each other despite having worked at the same venue (but different shifts) as bouncers.
#15161067
If Chauvin is found not guilty for carrying out orders then the city should be found guilty for having the standard procedure for confronting someone for the alleged passing, knowingly or unknowingly, of a counterfeit $20 bill to be the application of lethal force before a person is sentenced (and in all likelihood, it would have been a slam dunk prosecutorial plea-bargain regardless of guilt, which is another issue with our current justice system). There is no reason anything other than a ticket or a summons to appear in court should have been issued for the alleged crime. Which shall forever remain alleged since Floyd is dead, and therefore can not be prosecuted.

Everything about this is ridiculous. Nobody needed to die over a fake $20. The idea that even in the best circumstances where the police were completely justified in their actions is immensely fucked on multiple levels. We have grown accustomed to the idea that the only solution police can offer to any situation is overwhelming force up to and including murder. Mind you, this is for a crime you may have actually committed in the past without realizing it unless you scrupulously check every bill that passes through your hands.
#15163895
I think Chauvin is guilty! Based on the opening statement of the prosecution, Chauvin's use of excessive force is what caused the death of Floyd. They can claim that it was due to a drug overdose, but the reality is that no such drug overdose would have caused DEATH if not for Chauvin's actions. It is a clear case of cause and effect!

Putting myself in Chauvin's situation, I couldn't imagine being such a coward that I would need to kneel on a man's neck who is already handcuffed. I would have tried to calm the man who was terrified and needed help. Chauvin showed zero compassion whatsoever for Floyd.

How do such immoral and cowardly people become police officers? I hope Chauvin gets put in prison where he belongs, and I hope he gets beaten severely by the other prisoners. He rightfully deserves to suffer for what he did.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15163904
I concur 100% with @Agent Steel's post. :eek:

I know it's rare, so I'll mark it on a calendar. :D

After Floyd was subdued(there were THREE other police officers presence), he could have halted the neck restraint.

Cowardly? Beyond cowardly. It was MURDEROUS.

I'd like to see a 2nd degree murder charge added. I don't think it was completely "accidental". Also, when you are in police custody(which Floyd was), the police officers are responsible for your well-being, which I think adds a bit more onus on the officers involved in this case.



Note: There had been 18 previous complaints leveled towards Chauvin, prior to this incident. Is one complaint a year, and a murder still not grounds for charges and dismissal?
https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-m ... discipline.


@Wulfschilde, if a person has terminal cancer, and someone shoots them, and kills them, is it still murder? Surely, since they were going to die anyways, this should reduce the sentence of the murderer, right? :knife:

That is your stupid argument, in a nutshell.
#15163910
Agent Steel wrote:I think Chauvin is guilty! Based on the opening statement of the prosecution, Chauvin's use of excessive force is what caused the death of Floyd. They can claim that it was due to a drug overdose, but the reality is that no such drug overdose would have caused DEATH if not for Chauvin's actions. It is a clear case of cause and effect!

Putting myself in Chauvin's situation, I couldn't imagine being such a coward that I would need to kneel on a man's neck who is already handcuffed. I would have tried to calm the man who was terrified and needed help. Chauvin showed zero compassion whatsoever for Floyd.

I see videos of lots of people arrested who make up lots of lies to cops about how they can't breathe or whatnot. In the video Floyd said he didn't want to go into the back of cop car because he had claustrophobia or something of the sort, and wanted them to at least keep the windows open. I can see if a cop would think that's a BS excuse for someone to try to avoid going in the car to try to delay/avoid arrest. And then while inside the car Floyd crawled out the other side onto the street, and then was tackled, and then said he couldn't breathe when restrained. I can see why cops may not have taken him seriously at that point, but I don't understand how a cop could then lean on a guy's neck for that long. It's just inhuman. Chauvin needs to go to jail.

The guy filming Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck was calling the cop out while he was kneeling say how Floyd was no longer resisting and how it looked like the cop was enjoying it. Chauvin was doing a cruel power play on Floyd and enjoying harming him, and his copmates were too cowardly to call him out on it. Protect the brotherhood. The amazing thing is Chauvin could see he was being filmed and still continued kneeling. It even looked like Chauvin was continuing to kneel on Floyd out of spite and defiance because the onlookers were criticizing him so much for it that Chauvin seemed to be acting like "eff you, I'll kneel on him as long as I want, don't tell me what to do". The man who was calling out Chauvin should be commended, he did all he could but was powerless to stop the cops, especially given Chauvin pulled out pepper spray when one of the onlookers got a bit close.

#15164728
Unthinking Majority wrote:I see videos of lots of people arrested who make up lots of lies to cops about how they can't breathe or whatnot.


I just want to reiterate that a knee to the throat was considered a justified use of force by the police for the crime of passing a fake $20. Something that it's possible anyone reading this may have done without realizing it.

If Floyd hadn't died this would have been unremarkable police blotter shit. It happens every day.
User avatar
By Verv
#15164949
SpecialOlympian wrote:I just want to reiterate that a knee to the throat was considered a justified use of force by the police for the crime of passing a fake $20. Something that it's possible anyone reading this may have done without realizing it.

If Floyd hadn't died this would have been unremarkable police blotter shit. It happens every day.


Police have to consistently enforce laws or the laws themselves will be flagrantly and routinely violated because people will know that they can then get away with them because no police officer will use force to restrain them over a counterfeit twenty dollar bill.
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