[Ganeshas Rat]

That's nuts. Immigration is often beneficial to both the country getting the person, and his country of origin.

How often? 1 case in 25? In 100? In 1000? And what exactly are the benefits if we exclude highly abstract things (like "beneficial because it has benefits" or "because unique ideas are shared")?

[Julian658]

The left calls the USA a racist oppressive country with no opportunity for the disenfranchised. At the same time they encourage more minority immigration from the 3rd world to enrich the USA. Why would they want the immigrants to come to this racist hell hole where there is no opportunity.

Does the left realize immigrants take away jobs? In my neck of the woods near 100% of construction workers are Hispanic. I don't recall when was the last time I saw an African American construction worker.

IN any event, immigration is necessary as the average fertility rate in Western nations is well below 2.0 and on pace to create a reduction in population. In Germany and Japan the government pays women to have children. I am always amused to find people that still believe "Paul Elrich's Population Bomb" the darling of the media in the 1960s-70. According to Elrich the world was going to end in the 1990s.

Victor Hanson has a great plan for immigration. Admit people in small quantities from all nations in the world instead of large quantities from 1-2 nations. People in small quantities have no choice but to assimilate and intermarry. Immigrants in large quantities from one nation tend to create ghettos in the host nation and fail to integrate or intermarry. The Germans were shocked to discovered that a 3rd generation German muslim male had the exact same culture as the grandparents that had migrate two generations before. In other words ZERO integration.

[Julian658]

How often? 1 case in 25? In 100? In 1000? And what exactly are the benefits if we exclude highly abstract things (like "beneficial because it has benefits" or "because unique ideas are shared")?

Admitting large numbers of people form the 3rd world is not going to help one bit.

[late]

How often? 1 case in 25? In 100? In 1000? And what exactly are the benefits if we exclude highly abstract things (like "beneficial because it has benefits" or "because unique ideas are shared")?

There was never anything keeping you from googling that.

We are a country of immigrants. If immigration was so awful, America would have a crappy economy.

There are a bunch of benefits, in the unlikely event you want to learn about them, don't let me stop you. Start with the economics.

Look at how many American nobel winners were not born in America...

[Julian658]

There was never anything keeping you from googling that.

We are a country of immigrants. If immigration was so awful, America would have a crappy economy.

There are a bunch of benefits, in the unlikely event you want to learn about them, don't let me stop you. Start with the economics.

Look at how many American nobel winners were not born in America...

Children of immigrants form East Asia and India have a greater education-socio-economic status than Anglos. Nigerians and Jamaicans do amazingly well too. Let's go get them.

[late]

Children of immigrants form East Asia and India have a greater education-socio-economic status than Anglos. Nigerians and Jamaicans do amazingly well too. Let's go get them.

Some of us don't worship money.

There are other values, other reasons... And we already have programs to do just that.

[Julian658]

Some of us don't worship money.

There are other values, other reasons... And we already have programs to do just that.

Worship money????

This is about admitting immigrants that can contribute to society rather than admitting immigrants that are a burden to society. The taxes paid by a cardiologist whose family immigrated form India can pay for the well being of the disenfranchised.

[Tainari88]

There is going to be a worldwide fight for the people with incredible educations, technical and artistic and writing abilities and for making something meaningful that is not based on money-grubbing and being a traitor to your own nation or ethnic group. The USA is thinking that the rest of the world filled with people who speak five languages and have PHDs and abilities and have health, youth and options....somehow think the USA is the best option, in many ways it is not.

Right now in Mexico I can make the same as I did in the states via remote but the cost of living is way lower than the states and I don't have to deal with the stress and the stupidity of consumption at the same level of the USA. You earn more, keep more and you can save more and have more free time. You can live in a society that is more in keeping with a relaxed life style.

People don't have to stay in the states if they got a lot of options.

I would rather live on social security and remote work in Mexico or in South America than staying in a state that forces you to work more and more hours and pay more to the banks there in interest and debt and bullshit. It is not worth it.

People with no education and no options are the ones wanting to live in the USA or other wealthier nations. And they have better public health, welfare states than the USA does that wastes all the money on maintaining military posts.

This young man is kind of an example:

[Ganeshas Rat]

We are a country of immigrants. If immigration was so awful, America would have a crappy economy.

I think that's the source of all confusion. Because... Well, because America is not a country of immigrants. Colonization is not immigration. Whatever makes a settler of XVIII century to leave his overpopulated country to go to uninhabited land "grab as much as you can fence" is absolutely different to the reasons that make one move from one populated country to another populated country. That's why every next wave of immigrants from Europe assimilated worser and worser than the previous one.

Look at how many American nobel winners were not born in America...

It just shows that being born in America already penalizes your chance to become a nobel winner. Maybe it's a good idea to research what exactly stops intellectual class from reproducing in the US instead of justifying why parasitism is so great for both the parasite and the host.

[Pants-of-dog]

The plan in the OP is a radical gambit aimed at preserving US primacy and defeating China. And the math makes a pretty good case.

But xenophobia in the USA is so high that this will never happen.

Consequently, China will have a stronger economy than the US based primarily on the population advantage. To be competitive with the Chinese economy, the US economy will have to grow significantly.

At this point, it is worth noting that China is already dealing with climate change and its impact on the Chinese economy, while the US is not.

[Julian658]

The plan in the OP is a radical gambit aimed at preserving US primacy and defeating China. And the math makes a pretty good case.

But xenophobia in the USA is so high that this will never happen.

Consequently, China will have a stronger economy than the US based primarily on the population advantage. To be competitive with the Chinese economy, the US economy will have to grow significantly.

At this point, it is worth noting that China is already dealing with climate change and its impact on the Chinese economy, while the US is not.

HEY POD:

I have two questions:

If a person immigrates to Canada and becomes a citizen. Is that person Canadian?
If the same person immigrates to China. Is that person Chinese?

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

How do those questions relate to my post? Please be clear and specific. Thanks.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

How do those questions relate to my post? Please be clear and specific. Thanks.

The question has to do with xenophobia. You mentioned that the USA is extremely xenophobic . I am not trying to trick you. I am hoping that maybe this time you can answer some questions that can explore the concept of xenophobia.

[late]

I think that's the source of all confusion. Because... Well, because America is not a country of immigrants.

Just because we came by magic carpet...

Btw, immigration is well studied, each wave was not worse than the last. That's simply wrong. Our Muslim immigrants are assimilating faster than average, for example.

Add history to your reading list...

[Pants-of-dog]

The question has to do with xenophobia. You mentioned that the USA is extremely xenophobic . I am not trying to trick you. I am hoping that maybe this time you can answer some questions that can explore the concept of xenophobia.

Feel free to look up the definition on Google.

Regardless of whether or not China thinks that immigrants are Chinese, their efforts still figure into the size of the Chinese economy. This is also true for immigrants in the USA and their support of the US economy.

So, in that respect, xenophobia does not matter. The only way it matters is in terms of immigration policy.

And for the purpose of this argument, let us assume that both cultures are equally xenophobic, for ease of discussion.

China would still have the population advantage simply due to its larger population and childbirth among the existing population.

So, all other things being equal, the USA would have to be a lot less xenophobic than China in order for the OP gambit to work.

[Julian658]

Feel free to look up the definition on Google.

Regardless of whether or not China thinks that immigrants are Chinese, their efforts still figure into the size of the Chinese economy. This is also true for immigrants in the USA and their support of the US economy.

So, in that respect, xenophobia does not matter. The only way it matters is in terms of immigration policy.

And for the purpose of this argument, let us assume that both cultures are equally xenophobic, for ease of discussion.

China would still have the population advantage simply due to its larger population and childbirth among the existing population.

So, all other things being equal, the USA would have to be a lot less xenophobic than China in order for the OP gambit to work.

OK, POD
Xenophobia does not matter. You have spoken like a true capitalist. As you know capitalism is color blind.
Have a great Sunday!

[Julian658]

Just because we came by magic carpet...

Btw, immigration is well studied, each wave was not worse than the last. That's simply wrong. Our Muslim immigrants are assimilating faster than average, for example.

Add history to your reading list...

As for American Muslims, they came in much smaller numbers than in Europe and hence are better assimilated. Furthermore, the American Muslim immigrant tends to have Western values due to much higher education than the Muslim immigrant to Europe. Yes, immigration works well if done correctly.

[Pants-of-dog]

As you know capitalism is color blind.

Not in this case, no.

In this case, it is specifically an economic war between two countries to be top dog. And the gambit in the OP is all about ensuring US dominance in capitalism.

So, while it is not specifically about skin colour, it is all about nationalism.

[Ganeshas Rat]

Yet another point of stupidity of the OP plan is that is said on the edge of the era where total population is not something to aim for but a strict penalty. 800 years ago roughly 95% of population was busy in agriculture, nowadays it's 2% and not the best 2%, the 2% who live of state dotations and regularly riot because their gentle asses slightly hurt this morning. They are kept mostly because it's cheaper to have them full time than to restore the whole sector of economics in the case of a sudden war or another black swan. 250 years ago cavalry was one of the most important parts of the army, now horses are only bred for the sport of the rich. 80 years ago steel was a serious marker of state economy's health, but it was replaced by power. And yeah, 150 years ago the number of people defined the power of your industry, but now we live in the age of developed industrial machines and AIs are coming to take intellectual jobs away from us too. Robots become cheaper and cheaper with each year while humans want more and more, being more consumers than producers. A state that has bigger population just has more mouths to feed, more political problems sourcing from its inability to do so, failing ecology, more spendings on social support and it can't do anything about this problem. The unnecessary humans cannot be turned off as it's considered strongly amoral and anyway impossible to achieve as humans resist them turning off with all possible means. These horrific scary industrial giants of China and India are just shitty hellholes that will be only worse, because they can't do anything about their overpopulation and they can't stop population growth. It's a malthusian trap.

[Tainari88]

Yet another point of stupidity of the OP plan is that is said on the edge of the era where total population is not something to aim for but a strict penalty. 800 years ago roughly 95% of population was busy in agriculture, nowadays it's 2% and not the best 2%, the 2% who live of state dotations and regularly riot because their gentle asses slightly hurt this morning. They are kept mostly because it's cheaper to have them full time than to restore the whole sector of economics in the case of a sudden war or another black swan. 250 years ago cavalry was one of the most important parts of the army, now horses are only bred for the sport of the rich. 80 years ago steel was a serious marker of state economy's health, but it was replaced by power. And yeah, 150 years ago the number of people defined the power of your industry, but now we live in the age of developed industrial machines and AIs are coming to take intellectual jobs away from us too. Robots become cheaper and cheaper with each year while humans want more and more, being more consumers than producers. A state that has bigger population just has more mouths to feed, more political problems sourcing from its inability to do so, failing ecology, more spendings on social support and it can't do anything about this problem. The unnecessary humans cannot be turned off as it's considered strongly amoral and anyway impossible to achieve as humans resist them turning off with all possible means. These horrific scary industrial giants of China and India are just shitty hellholes that will be only worse, because they can't do anything about their overpopulation and they can't stop population growth. It's a malthusian trap.

No, it is a lot about a lack of good policy.

Got to change habits. And transition.

Compassion and work.