[Julian658]

@Julian658

Your inability to support the ongoing censorship in any logical manner is noted.

Have a good day.

Yes, I cannot support the promotion of victimhood among the BIPOC people. It is not healthy! I suggest you look it up. Adopting victimhood is damaging to mental health.

I cannot support anti West and anti-capitalism propaganda. I am not a socialist and I believe there is no room in schools for this.

I cannot support dividing the classrooms according to skin color.

[late]

Yes, I cannot support the promotion of victimhood among the BIPOC people. It is not healthy! I suggest you look it up. Adopting victimhood is damaging to mental health.

I cannot support anti West and anti-capitalism propaganda. I am not a socialist and I believe there is no room in schools for this.

I cannot support dividing the classrooms according to skin color.

But you do support constant lying.

[Julian658]

But you do support constant lying.

late:

Your posts often have zero substance. Therefore, it is best to post your customary insulting remarks which in the end mean that you have no ammunition to post anything that is remotely logical.
Carry on!

[late]

late:

Your posts often have zero substance.

And yet I've said all that needs saying...

[MadMonk]

These issues are not exclusive to the US nor are they limited to the classroom. There is an ideological divide constraining any consensus to what could, should and will be taught to future generations.

Let's look at what the Boris has been cooking in the Greatest of Britain or 'How I learned to love The Empire of the never settling Sun'.

POLITICO

UK trade department head urged staff to ‘recognize white privilege’ after BLM protests
Memo to staff says Black Lives Matter protests ‘highlight how much more work there is still to do to achieve genuine equality.’

The Black Lives Matter protests that swept Britain in the wake of the murder of George Floyd by a white Minneapolis police officer last May sparked soul-searching in the highest reaches of the U.K.’s trade department.

In a series of internal memos, top civil servants told staff the protesters had a point. Taking to the streets, they said, showed frustration at “white privilege” and institutional racism in Britain.

But that message runs counter to the policy of the department's top minister, the Trade Secretary Liz Truss, who also holds the government equalities brief. Last December, Truss said she would reject “identity politics and loud lobby groups” like Black Lives Matter. And the government's response to the protests, a report put together by a commission chaired by Tony Sewell, downplayed the role of institutional racism and white privilege in British society. It concluded that although racism exists, the system is not rigged against ethnic minorities.

The issues raised by the protesters a year ago, however, are back in the spotlight as England footballers at the Euro 2020 tournament who took the knee as an anti-racism gesture prompted boos from some supporters. Asked about it on Sunday at a press conference to conclude the G7 summit in Cornwall, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said "everybody should cheer for England," but dodged a question about whether he would himself adopt the gesture.

His Home Secretary Priti Patel told GB News on Monday that she did not support taking the knee, describing it as "gesture politics."

Yet at the top of Truss’ trade department last June, officials concluded “systemic racism and white privilege” are woven into British society, according to internal memos obtained by POLITICO through the Freedom of Information Act.

Floyd’s death, the protests, and the disproportionate impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on minority communities “highlight how much more work there is still to do to achieve genuine equality,” wrote Antonia Romeo, then one of two top trade department civil servants, in a memo to staff on June 3 last year.

John Alty, who took over Romeo’s role in January, also sent a series of messages to staff. Alty acknowledged “the role of ‘white silence’ in upholding institutional racism.” He urged staff to “recognise our white privilege” and “listen when black people talk about racism and racial inequality.”

Romeo also hosted a Black Lives Matter discussion open to everyone at the Department for International Trade (DIT) and urged staff to join the Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) Allies group.

“People shouldn’t feel hesitant to speak about their experiences or fear potential backlash for discussing issues such as systemic racism and white privilege,” wrote a senior trade official and member of the African-Caribbean community in a guest blog post distributed to the Department for International Trade’s (DIT) staff.

Trade department officials were joined by Lord Mark Sedwill, then head of the civil service. He told civil service staff in a June 8, 2020 memo the protests and impact of the pandemic had "surfaced persistent and painful inequalities" in British society. Sedwill stepped down last October.

“Despite the efforts we have made within the Civil Service, this is an area where we still fall short of our aspirations,” Sedwill wrote. “Discrimination can take many forms, it can be subtle or overt, and requires a range of actions to challenge and uproot,” he said. Sedwill said he would “ensure that ethnic minority perspectives are embedded” in government policy and that a diversity agenda is deployed across the civil service.

The messages from top officials are at odds with the position of their boss Trade Secretary Truss and that of the Johnson administration more generally. Truss, delivered a speech in December titled The New Fight For Fairness last December. “The equality debate,” she said, has been dominated “by those who believe people are defined by their protected characteristic, and not by their individual character.”

Rather than racial inequalities, Truss said she would instead “focus fiercely on fixing geographic inequality, addressing the real problems people face in their everyday lives using evidence and data.”

Techniques, she said, “like unconscious bias training, quotas and diversity statements do nothing to make the workplace fundamentally fairer.” The best way to reduce unfairness in British society, she explained, “is through opening up opportunities for all.”

This speech was followed by the publication of the Boris Johnson-commissioned Sewell report in March. The 256-page document found that: “Put simply we no longer see a Britain where the system is deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities,” the report said. “The impediments and disparities do exist, they are varied, and ironically very few of them are directly to do with racism. Too often ‘racism’ is the catch-all explanation, and can be simply implicitly accepted rather than explicitly examined.”

It questioned whether “the dominant feature of our society is institutional racism and white privilege.”

'Systemic racism'
Simon Woolley, a life peer and founder of Operation Black Vote, an NGO addressing racial inequality and voter registration, said he was concerned that by shutting down debate, the government had missed an important opportunity.

Since last summer’s protests “there’s been some very intelligent and heartfelt conversations in the civil service and in business,” he said, “that has sought to acknowledge systemic racism and, in particular, how detrimental it is both inside and outside of government.”

Confronting a history of colonialism and racism, he said, could lead to the “greatest conversation our nation could have about how the past and the institutions that were built from those eras are still delivering gross inequalities today" in jobs, housing and health.

“It is both disappointing and more than a little heartbreaking when very senior politicians characterize this as identity politics and loud lobby groups,” he said.

But others in parliament disagree. Conservative MP John Hayes, who chairs the Common Sense Group, said that civil servants who support the message of Black Lives Matter “are drawn from unfortunately an out of touch, narrow-minded, bourgeois left elite that has held too much power in Britain for too long.”

“Finally the hardworking silent majority of patriots are speaking out, challenging these people’s misassumptions and putting them back in their place,” he added.

“It’s certainly true that many white people and many black people and many Asian people are privileged,” he said, arguing the real question is about how to provide for all people. “Sadly that is lost on a lot of the liberal establishment."

“The Civil Service is committed to promoting and ensuring equality and valuing diversity,” said a spokesperson for the trade department. They pointed out that both Romeo and Alty worked closely with Truss on the department's equality, diversity and inclusion framework.

I guess the hardworking silent majority of patriots are no longer silent. As the great man has spoken, it is time to put them back in their place.

[Julian658]

And yet I've said all that needs saying...

You haven't said enough and you are afraid of going into a deep analysis of the subject.

No one denies that AAs were brutalized and oppressed until recently. However, Obama was elected POTUS 53 years after the Rosa Parks incident. As a group AAs are the wealthiest people of african ancestry in the planet. Nowadays most AAs are regular middle class people that are thriving and moving ahead. A lot of progress has been made. The rate of incarceration of black men continues to go down despite the mandate signed by the Clintons and the Democrats in the 90s. The left is lying about this. The disparities in health care outcomes are finally moving in the right direction. People attending higher education is astronomically high and today in 2021 life is much better. I am not saying there is no racism, however the left always fails to point out the positives.

Lastly, I do not know anyone that loves the idea of AA poverty , racism, and high crime neighborhoods. Most people regardless of political inclination want to be in areas where there is no poverty. They love the idea of AAs thriving and truly engaging others in a peaceful manner. I ask again: Who benefits from poverty and racism? The Democrats or the Republicans. It is obviously the Democrats!!!

Regarding the the promotion of victimhood by CRT proponents:

Who benefits form that? CRT go as far as to say that pointing out that victimhood is not good for mental health is racist. They want victims just as the old fashion marxists of the past wanted an oppressed proletariat. It s a bankrupt ideology that could lead to a revolution.

[late]

You haven't said enough and you are afraid of going into a deep analysis of the subject.

I did both, you kept repeating your lies.

I've been considering starting a new thread, about education, about the things we should be talking about. Things we aren't talking about because of the fake controversy and constant lies.

[Gardener]

Please quote the parts of the study which support your claim about it. Also, since I cited two studies, I will assume that only one of these studies is being questioned and the other one satisfies your demand for evidence.

Oh for goodness sake @Pants-of-dog , go back and read your own post. Neither abstract mentioned reasons of motives for the discrepencies in police shootings, or even the underlying causes of them.

My original question was "..Give me evidence that black people are 'oppressed' by the state ? (more than white people)...". Your post failed in regards 'evidence'. There was no evidence of 'oppression'. You could just as well (in the absence of other evidence) blame this on black criminality instead !

This is typical of Critical Race Hypothenoids in my opinion; they see a disparity in the experience of blacks and whites, and IMMEDIATELIY scream racism, instead of analysing what actually happened.

[Julian658]

I did both, you kept repeating your lies.

I've been considering starting a new thread, about education, about the things we should be talking about. Things we aren't talking about because of the fake controversy and constant lies.

My hypothesis is proven. There is no one at home. You are immersed in religion and cannot face (or even understand) other viewpoints. However, there is a greater likelihood this is not simple ignorance. Folks like you say what they need to say to push a specific ideology that is not rooted in reason. The ideology is religion and hence very dangerous. You meet the definition of virtue signaling with no conscience.

[late]

My hypothesis is proven.

It's not a hypothesis, it's propaganda.

Different game, different rules.

[Pants-of-dog]

Oh for goodness sake @Pants-of-dog , go back and read your own post. Neither abstract mentioned reasons of motives for the discrepencies in police shootings, or even the underlying causes of them.

Again, you would have to look at these studies and then quote the parts that shows that they do not discuss these things.

My original question was "..Give me evidence that black people are 'oppressed' by the state ? (more than white people)...". Your post failed in regards 'evidence'. There was no evidence of 'oppression'. You could just as well (in the absence of other evidence) blame this on black criminality instead !

Studies also show that blacks, for example, consume drugs significantly less often than white people but are charged for drug use offenses more often.

Anyway, you asked for evidence. It has now been provided.

This is typical of Critical Race Hypothenoids in my opinion; they see a disparity in the experience of blacks and whites, and IMMEDIATELIY scream racism, instead of analysing what actually happened.

Your analysis is “I don’t believe in racism, so it never happened!”

This is not a good analysis on your part.

if you would like to provide evidence that racism is not a factor, please do so.

[Julian658]

It's not a hypothesis, it's propaganda.

Different game, different rules.

You are living in your echo chamber POD, no big deal.
You are also a marxist so CRT is music to your ears, no big deal.
You may be incapable of having a fair discussion within the middle of the political spectrum, no big deal.*

*The question is: Are you on the extreme left with 100% conviction or do you pretend to be 100% devoted. I think it is a combination of both. From a psychological standpoint you could never accept anything that is not on the extreme left.

You once told me victimhood was a good thing and I was perplexed. Now that I have read CRT victimhood makes sense.

Carry on mate!

[Godstud]

@Pants-of-dog and @Gardener
I am sure Pants means this:

Over the course of their lives, white people are more likely than Black people to use illicit drugs in general, as well as marijuana, cocaine, heroin, methamphetamines, and prescription drugs (for non-medical purposes) specifically. Data on more recent drug use (for example, in the past year) shows that Black and white adults use illicit drugs other than marijuana at the same rates and that they use marijuana at similar rates.

Yet around the country, Black adults are more than two-and-a-half times as likely as white adults to be arrested for drug possession. In 2014, Black adults accounted for just 14 percent of those who used drugs in the previous year but close to a third of those arrested for drug possession. In the 39 states for which we have sufficient police data, Black adults were more than four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than white adults.[2]

In every state for which we have sufficient data, Black adults were arrested for drug possession at higher rates than white adults, and in many states the disparities were substantially higher than the national rate—over 6 to 1 in Montana, Iowa, and Vermont. In Manhattan, Black people are nearly 11 times more likely than white people to be arrested for drug possession.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2016/10/12/e ... ted-states


Also:
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

[late]

You are living in your echo chamber POD, no big deal.
You are also a marxist

Wrong guy, and I am not a Marxist.

But I have taught, and I have studied education reform. I know a little about it, you know nothing, and as always, carefully avoiding any learning that would get in the way of the propaganda you get paid to spread.

[Gardener]

Again, you would have to look at these studies and then quote the parts that shows that they do not discuss these things.



Studies also show that blacks, for example, consume drugs significantly less often than white people but are charged for drug use offenses more often.

Anyway, you asked for evidence. It has now been provided.

In a cocked hat it has ! I repeat: the abstracts do NOT support your assertion, and it would cost me £35 to access the full study.

Your analysis is “I don’t believe in racism, so it never happened!”

Utter piffle. That is NOT my analysis, and I'd prefer you to STOP putting words into my mouth. My approach is to seek evidence when people make assertions.

if you would like to provide evidence that racism is not a factor, please do so.

Once more, you ask me to prove a negative. I would suggest that it is down to the proponents of CRH to justify THEIR assertions that inequities are caused by racism, and that "systemic racism" actually exists.

[Julian658]

@Pants-of-dog and @Gardener
I am sure Pants means this:

Over the course of their lives, white people are more likely than Black people to use illicit drugs in general, as well as marijuana, cocaine, heroin, methamphetamines, and prescription drugs (for non-medical purposes) specifically. Data on more recent drug use (for example, in the past year) shows that Black and white adults use illicit drugs other than marijuana at the same rates and that they use marijuana at similar rates.

Yet around the country, Black adults are more than two-and-a-half times as likely as white adults to be arrested for drug possession. In 2014, Black adults accounted for just 14 percent of those who used drugs in the previous year but close to a third of those arrested for drug possession. In the 39 states for which we have sufficient police data, Black adults were more than four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than white adults.[2]

In every state for which we have sufficient data, Black adults were arrested for drug possession at higher rates than white adults, and in many states the disparities were substantially higher than the national rate—over 6 to 1 in Montana, Iowa, and Vermont. In Manhattan, Black people are nearly 11 times more likely than white people to be arrested for drug possession.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2016/10/12/e ... ted-states


Also:
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp15.pdf

White people commit less violent crime in relationship to drug usage. Did you look at that angle? BTW, the incarceration of blacks has been decreasing despite the laws signed by the Clintons.

Looking at stats that show an unbalanced result is no proof of racism. The NBA is 90% black and I assure you there is no racism towards white basketball players. It is what it is.

[Julian658]

Wrong guy, and I am not a Marxist.

But I have taught, and I have studied education reform. I know a little about it, you know nothing, and as always, carefully avoiding any learning that would get in the way of the propaganda you get paid to spread.

You have a similar point of view. I am glad you are not a marxist.
An appeal to authority is a notoriously bad debate fallacy.

[late]

An appeal to authority is a notoriously bad debate fallacy.

Experience is a plus, lies are a disqualifier, "a witness once impeached"...

Also, maybe you should stop pretending you know logic...

[Julian658]

Experience is a plus, lies are a disqualifier, "a witness once impeached"...

Also, maybe you should stop pretending you know logic...

Repeatedly calling someone a liar without evidence is another debate fallacy.

Two for two. You are batting a 1.000.
I am eager to read your next debate fallacy.

[late]

Repeatedly calling someone a liar without evidence is another debate fallacy.

Except when it's true, and we all know it's true.

Logic, not your friend...