First British slaves in America were Irish - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15177008
late wrote:You need a strong government to be part of the Modern World. I can run you through the history, if you need it.

To get there, you need taxes.

A Supreme Court justice was known for whistling every year when he dropped his tax returns in the mail. Eventually a clerk asked him why. "Today is the day I buy civilization".

Lame dodge was the polite version.

I didn't dodge shit. I provided a detailed answer to your question. One of the most annoying habits people have is they ask a question then attack you if they don't like your honest answer.

Get your panties out of a bunch, @late .
#15177009
ingliz wrote:Truth, my arse!

You have consciously chosen to peddle a revisionist narrative that is replete with historical inaccuracies. The frequent extension of documented information on enslaved Africans to all indentured servants without explanation or justification, distorted embellishments of historical incidents, reliance on questionable sources - Confessed contrarian, Michael Hoffman is a blogger wholly reliant on a questionable source (Callaghan) for God's sake - and unsupported statements of alleged historical fact.


:roll:


I think if you will check the facts as presented, even lamestream sources testify to the fact that my posts are consistent with what the founders and framers of this country believed. It is people like YOU peddling revisionist history. I have one of the largest personal libraries of REAL books in the state I live in. Many of my books go beyond a hundred years back - some a few hundred years (original copies I might add).

ALL of this B.S. that Thomas Jefferson didn't say that, Madison never said, this book or that is a hoax, this belief or the other is a myth is what the left lives off of. If the left is to believed, there isn't a single damn thing that constitutionalists believe in that isn't a myth, a hoax, or a lie. People like you are full of it.
#15177010
late wrote:There aren't many flavors that say taxation is slavery. If you're not libertarian, perhaps you're anarcho-capitalist, and my condolences if you're one of them.

It's quite odd.


The reason my critics have NO credibility is that you tell them the truth and they go on and on about total B.S. and try to lie their way and blow smoke up everybody's arse . What part of I don't wear a label or subscribe to any existing group or organization are you having trouble understanding? If you can't understand that, it's pretty well obvious why you can't understand facts outside of that which clearly contradict your ideology.
#15177015
Pants-of-dog wrote:@The Resister

It is still a verified fact that there is no proclamation issued in 1625 discussing Irish slaves.

Just like it is a verified fact that there are no records of Irish slaves in Virginia in 1619.


Again, I hate to burst your bubble, but the older the history book, the more that the historians disagree with you. AGAIN, it could be it was a declaration, executive order, statute, etc. and dishonest liberals are playing semantics in order to obscure history. The fact that educated and qualified historians in the United States, UK, and other countries allude to it, I remain convinced that either there was a Proclamation OR some kind of legal instrument. No rational person could believe that so many historians the world over wrote about something that didn't exist. Neither is it possible that legal scholars mention such a document. I'm not getting paid to prove it and your ONLY interest in it is being anal retentive and claiming that others are wrong and you're right about every freaking thing. It doesn't make you right and it is a slap in the face to every Irish slave that was mistreated. Let's be honest here: You don't give a shit about human misery; you only care about stroking your fragile ego and I'm fed up with it. Pardon me if I don't validate your dishonest, uninformed, and ill intentioned motives.
#15177019
The Resister wrote:Again, I hate to burst your bubble, but the older the history book, the more that the historians disagree with you.


So far, not a single historian that provides sources has disagreed with any of my claims.

AGAIN, it could be it was a declaration, executive order, statute, etc. and dishonest liberals are playing semantics in order to obscure history. The fact that educated and qualified historians in the United States, UK, and other countries allude to it, I remain convinced that either there was a Proclamation OR some kind of legal instrument.


Since these orders, commands, declarations, et cetera, all still exist, it should be easy for one of your historians to provide the name of the order.

No rational person could believe that so many historians the world over wrote about something that didn't exist.


From your sources, it seems like a handful of US and Irish authors have simply repeated memes they found on the Internet, so yes, it is plausible.

Neither is it possible that legal scholars mention such a document.


I think you miswrote this sentence.
#15177020
ingliz wrote:...And why no mention of the 12,000 English and Welsh who were transported to the West Indies (Vagrancy Act of 1547) in the early 1600s to clear the dense forests? Many poor labourers died as they toiled under conditions much worse than the Irish endured.

I think what you are demonstrating here, and all through the thread, is that life - for many in Great Britain - was worse than slavery in the 1500s-1600s.

Ruin your own people's lives, and then - when they're nice and nasty - export them to the edges of the empire.
#15177049
The Resister wrote:educated and qualified historians in the United States, UK, and other countries allude to it

I found your Proclamation. It dates to December 1617, but it doesn't help you. The transported are English.

1617, December 23.
[Banishing Notorious Offenders to Virginia.]


BY THE KING.

A PROCLAMATION FOR THE BETTER AND MORE PEACEABLE
GOVERNMENT OF THE MIDDLE SHIRES OF NORTHUM-
BERLAND, CUMBERLAND, AND WESTMERLAND.


https://archive.org/details/royalprocla ... ew=theater


It was around this time that the workhouses started pushing a policy of apprenticing petty offenders to merchants.

Between 1617 and 1648, the Bridewell Court books contain orders for the transportation of 1,106 individuals condemned to service in Barbados, Virginia, Bermuda, and ‘the sea’.

— John Wareing, Indentured Migration and the Servant Trade from London to America, 1618–1718

Other English cities and towns were also organized for the transportation of vagrants and petty criminals.

Apprenticing the convicted poor to merchants emerged as a cost-efficient way of dealing with petty offenders.

— Gwenda Morgan and Peter Rushton, Banishment in the Early Atlantic World: Convicts, Rebels and Slaves

And the Scots.

Scottish cities got in on the act too. Edinburgh magistrates petitioned the Privy Council of Scotland early in the seventeenth century for permission to send thieves and prostitutes to Barbados and other
Atlantic destinations. This trade lasted until the Navigation Acts of the 1660s excluded Scotland from directly trading with English colonies.


— Simon P. Newman, “In Great Slavery and Bondage”: White Labor and the Development of Plantation Slavery in British America

But, again, this doesn't help you. They were the poor of England, Wales, and Scotland. The Irish came later in the aftermath of the Cromwellian invasion of 1649–1653.


:)
#15177062
late wrote:Or to put it a little differently, this discussion has left the planet, and is halfway to Betelgeuse...

This is what happens when people start making up fake history with fake dates and fake Proclamations and fake facts, oh excuse me, 'alternative' facts. It ends up like 1066 And All That.... :lol:
#15177074
ingliz wrote:I found your Proclamation. It dates to December 1617, but it doesn't help you. The transported are English.

1617, December 23.
[Banishing Notorious Offenders to Virginia.]


BY THE KING.

A PROCLAMATION FOR THE BETTER AND MORE PEACEABLE
GOVERNMENT OF THE MIDDLE SHIRES OF NORTHUM-
BERLAND, CUMBERLAND, AND WESTMERLAND.


https://archive.org/details/royalprocla ... ew=theater


It was around this time that the workhouses started pushing a policy of apprenticing petty offenders to merchants.

Between 1617 and 1648, the Bridewell Court books contain orders for the transportation of 1,106 individuals condemned to service in Barbados, Virginia, Bermuda, and ‘the sea’.

— John Wareing, Indentured Migration and the Servant Trade from London to America, 1618–1718

Other English cities and towns were also organized for the transportation of vagrants and petty criminals.

Apprenticing the convicted poor to merchants emerged as a cost-efficient way of dealing with petty offenders.

— Gwenda Morgan and Peter Rushton, Banishment in the Early Atlantic World: Convicts, Rebels and Slaves

And the Scots.

Scottish cities got in on the act too. Edinburgh magistrates petitioned the Privy Council of Scotland early in the seventeenth century for permission to send thieves and prostitutes to Barbados and other
Atlantic destinations. This trade lasted until the Navigation Acts of the 1660s excluded Scotland from directly trading with English colonies.


— Simon P. Newman, “In Great Slavery and Bondage”: White Labor and the Development of Plantation Slavery in British America

But, again, this doesn't help you. They were the poor of England, Wales, and Scotland. The Irish came later in the aftermath of the Cromwellian invasion of 1649–1653.


:)


There aren't any professional historians here, so what you found may or may not have any merit. There are entire history books written about Irish slavery, but we can always let the revisionists of history rewrite the history books. Like I said earlier, for everything the founders and framers of this country said and done there is someone denying it. At the end of the day, it still comes down to one basic truth:

Those who are critical of my posts don't give a rip about the suffering and human misery. What matters is that the masses can gang up and attack people for standing firm against tyranny and oppression. Might makes right, but OTOH since the period of people worshiping the Golden Calf in biblical times, the masses have been proven wrong time and time again. I'm not interested in this discussion any longer. I'm not even responding to some of the worst hatemongers. Denying that White people in general have had it just as hard as any other race at various times throughout history only serves as a pretext to justify the genocide taking place. Most of my critics don't give a shit about that. They just want to be "right" in a pointless argument. The Irish were slaves and the material I relied on is probably more accurate than a few megalomaniacs relying on Google and lamestream to avoid acknowledgement of the facts.

They don't like it and we aren't changing anyone's minds. I've presented the evidence, but it's not worth a tinkers damn if you don't read the freaking books.
#15177075
@QatzelOk

In the 1640s, most Barbados estates were located on the coast. Within a decade, the entire island was divided into demarcated plantations.

the 12,000 English and Welsh

Much of the heavy work of clearing forest and planting cane fell to these British migrants. Brutality, overwork, and scanty rations caused high death rates during service.

— John F. Richards The Unending Frontier: An Environmental History of the Early Modern World


The Resister wrote:Denying that White people in general have had it just as hard as any other race at various times throughout history only serves as a pretext to justify the genocide taking place. Most of my critics don't give a shit about that.

:lol:
#15177078
I'm starting to think it's high time that we actually started enslaving Irish Americans, just so their tedious romantic grievance politics can finally have some basis in fact. :lol:

The Resister wrote:Denying that White people in general have had it just as hard as any other race at various times throughout history only serves as a pretext to justify the genocide taking place.

Oh God, now we're onto the White Genocide as well. Keep digging. :excited:
#15177080
Heisenberg wrote:Irish Americans... tedious romantic grievance politics

This Island is the Dunghill wharone England doth cast forth its rubidg[.] Rodges (rogues) and hors and
such like peopell are thos which are generally Broght hear.


— Henry Whistler, 1654


:lol:
#15177084
Heisenberg wrote:I'm starting to think it's high time that we actually started enslaving Irish Americans, just so their tedious romantic grievance politics can finally have some basis in fact. :lol:


Oh God, now we're onto the White Genocide as well. Keep digging. :excited:


In 1965 White people were over 80 percent of this country's population. Today, among children 15 and under in the United States, Whites are the minority. Genocide, regardless of how subtle, is genocide.
#15177086
The Resister wrote:In 1965 White people were over 80 percent of this country's population. Today, among children 15 and under in the United States, Whites are the minority. Genocide, regardless of how subtle, is genocide.

So that's your grievance is it? That at least clarifies things somewhat.
#15177089
Potemkin wrote:So that's your grievance is it? That at least clarifies things somewhat.

You don't understand how truly awful the White Genocide is until you experience it first hand.

I went to do the laundry today and the woman running the laundromat spoke some kinda funny foreigner language, most likely Mexican. She even smiled warmly, as if to say "we will defeat and enslave you, gringo". I'm literally shaking right now. I feared for my life. There's nothing more terrifying than being a white man in America these days. :eek:
Last edited by Heisenberg on 16 Jun 2021 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
#15177090
The Resister wrote:In 1965 White people were over 80 percent of this country's population. Today, among children 15 and under in the United States, Whites are the minority. Genocide, regardless of how subtle, is genocide.


So the issue is that Whites are having less children than before...?
  • 1
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 26
Russia-Ukraine War 2022

BREAKING: Poland suspends its adherence to the T[…]

https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/171886694534[…]

If Ami Ayalon was PM instead of Netanyahu, the top[…]

Oh joining the EU is easy ! Just ask Turkey ! :l[…]