How Republicans manage to be both anarchists and authoritarians - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15189333
"What can appear to be a contradictory outlook is actually typical of authoritarian movements. When they are out of power, they will attack the state with every weapon at their disposal. Once they take power, however, they will entrench their own authority and repress dissent. Look at the right-wing ruling parties in India, Turkey, Hungary and Poland, which the GOP increasingly resembles.

Thomas Zimmer, a historian at Georgetown University, argued that Republicans are not motivated “by nihilism, but by conviction — by the idea that America must be a white Christian nation, a place where a white Christian male elite gets to rule.”

You might say they are practicing tactical anarchism with the strategic goal of instituting right-wing authoritarianism."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/07/how-republicans-manage-be-both-anarchists-authoritarians/
#15189334
late wrote:"What can appear to be a contradictory outlook is actually typical of authoritarian movements. When they are out of power, they will attack the state with every weapon at their disposal. Once they take power, however, they will entrench their own authority and repress dissent. Look at the right-wing ruling parties in India, Turkey, Hungary and Poland, which the GOP increasingly resembles.

Thomas Zimmer, a historian at Georgetown University, argued that Republicans are not motivated “by nihilism, but by conviction — by the idea that America must be a white Christian nation, a place where a white Christian male elite gets to rule.”

You might say they are practicing tactical anarchism with the strategic goal of instituting right-wing authoritarianism."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/07/how-republicans-manage-be-both-anarchists-authoritarians/


Basically right.
#15189341
Rancid wrote:Basically right.


True to a point, but the formerly consistent GOP voters used to be believers in small, practically non-existent government, and even the Fascists tend to privatize those sections of the economy that were nationalized when they come to power (historically speaking).

However, President Trump made a bloc of voters that believe in ''big government'' reside with the GOP, for now. This is because he successfully wooed voters who voted independent and are economically liberal but socially conservative, turned off by the Democrats insane identity politics.

It is only his obnoxious polarizing figure that has obscured the actual facts, that his nationalist and populist rhetoric has attracted voters to the GOP all across the political spectrum.
#15189367
annatar1914 wrote:
True to a point, but the formerly consistent GOP voters used to be believers in small, practically non-existent government, and even the Fascists tend to privatize those sections of the economy that were nationalized when they come to power (historically speaking).

However, President Trump made a bloc of voters that believe in ''big government'' reside with the GOP, for now. This is because he successfully wooed voters who voted independent and are economically liberal but socially conservative, turned off by the Democrats insane identity politics.

It is only his obnoxious polarizing figure that has obscured the actual facts, that his nationalist and populist rhetoric has attracted voters to the GOP all across the political spectrum.



Ike was a big government guy, so was Nixon.

The idea that Republicans want small government is mostly fiction, part of their mythology. During the Reagan years, while they cut back a little on social programs, their increase in military spending dwarfed those cuts. IOW, the government grew...

As to your other point, presidential elections are a referenda on the status quo. If you like the way things are, you vote for the same party. If you want a change, you vote for the other guy.

Complicating matters are swing voters, who typically don't make up their mind until shortly before the election. Anything from weather to a campaign ad can turn them around. What I am getting it, is that after 4 years of Trump, it was no accident that more people voted against him than in any other election in history. And that's from "all across the political spectrum"...
#15189389
Politics_Observer wrote:@annatar1914

Republicans believed in small government only for non-republicans but favored big government only for themselves.


@Politics_Observer ;

This is pretty much been the case for quite some time, with both parties. They want to give the appearance of delivering the goodies for their different sets of special interests, and both deliver for the Plutocrats, the Oligarchs.
#15189391
@annatar1914

The thing is, wealthy people don't need the government help. Poor folks trying to get an education and do right do need some help. Not everybody is super wealthy to get access to healthcare or a solid education. My thinking goes along the lines that healthcare and good education is a right and not a privilege. However, it doesn't seem to work that way.
#15189393
@late , you said;

Ike was a big government guy, so was Nixon.


Yes, they both subscribed to Keynesian ideas in economics.

The idea that Republicans want small government is mostly fiction, part of their mythology.


I said;''Voters'', with the implication that the GOP establishment, unlike the Democrats, are not truly responsive to the people they seek to have vote for them every election.

During the Reagan years, while they cut back a little on social programs, their increase in military spending dwarfed those cuts. IOW, the government grew..
.

Sure, and Bush and Clinton followed the trajectory of the Reagan revolution and gutted the American Middle Class while engaging in interventions overseas with that increase in military spending.

As to your other point, presidential elections are a referenda on the status quo. If you like the way things are, you vote for the same party. If you want a change, you vote for the other guy.


Well, speaking of ''Mythology'', elections give the appearance of being a referenda on the status quo.

Complicating matters are swing voters, who typically don't make up their mind until shortly before the election. Anything from weather to a campaign ad can turn them around. What I am getting it, is that after 4 years of Trump, it was no accident that more people voted against him than in any other election in history. And that's from "all across the political spectrum"...


I don't have a dog in that hunt, I only know it all comes from under the dog's tail, so to speak. What I do know is that the American people are ill served by their political class.
#15189394
Politics_Observer wrote:@annatar1914

The thing is, wealthy people don't need the government help. Poor folks trying to get an education and do right do need some help. Not everybody is super wealthy to get access to healthcare or a solid education. My thinking goes along the lines that healthcare and good education is a right and not a privilege. However, it doesn't seem to work that way.


@Politics_Observer ,

Ah, but I do happen to think that the wealthy people want the government help, hence all the corporate welfare that dwarfs anything given in social programs for private individuals who need government help.

I believe that healthcare, education, public utilities, housing, they are all human rights. People work, they deserve benefit from the common social effort. Spongers and rentier class parasites need not apply, in my opinion.
#15189517
annatar1914 wrote:


I don't have a dog in that hunt, I only know it all comes from under the dog's tail, so to speak. What I do know is that the American people are ill served by their political class.



That is true, but you don't understand. This is not surprising, most Americans don't have a clue. But I can tell you that we have a long history of surprising people..
#15189558
annatar1914 wrote:
@late ;

''are'', or ''going to be'', as a laudable target?



I don't understand the question.

It was just an example, after 20 years, we are finally out of Afghanistan. Biden has a competent team fighting Covid. Biden kept Trump from finishing the destruction of the country, at least for a while, and he got an economic relief bill passed that avoided a major recession.

He's doing much better than I expected. Of course, with an election coming up, Republicans will be Republicans...
#15189561
@late ;

I don't understand the question.


Simple. Is there a program that has ''cut infant poverty in half'', or is there a program that just has that as a target goal?

It was just an example, after 20 years, we are finally out of Afghanistan. Biden has a competent team fighting Covid. Biden kept Trump from finishing the destruction of the country, at least for a while, and he got an economic relief bill passed that avoided a major recession.


All these are debatable points,and not from a ''conservative'' perspective either.

He's doing much better than I expected. Of course, with an election coming up, Republicans will be Republicans...


And had Trump won re-election, i've no doubt that ''Democrats would be democrats''. Party partisanship is so disgusting on so many levels, one way or another.
#15189566
late wrote:"What can appear to be a contradictory outlook is actually typical of authoritarian movements. When they are out of power, they will attack the state with every weapon at their disposal. Once they take power, however, they will entrench their own authority and repress dissent. Look at the right-wing ruling parties in India, Turkey, Hungary and Poland, which the GOP increasingly resembles.

Thomas Zimmer, a historian at Georgetown University, argued that Republicans are not motivated “by nihilism, but by conviction — by the idea that America must be a white Christian nation, a place where a white Christian male elite gets to rule.”

You might say they are practicing tactical anarchism with the strategic goal of instituting right-wing authoritarianism."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/09/07/how-republicans-manage-be-both-anarchists-authoritarians/

The article is hilarious for many reasons. Why would a leftist need to criticize Republicans for not being conservative enough? :lol:
#15189567
late wrote:Ike was a big government guy, so was Nixon.

The idea that Republicans want small government is mostly fiction, part of their mythology. During the Reagan years, while they cut back a little on social programs, their increase in military spending dwarfed those cuts. IOW, the government grew...

As to your other point, presidential elections are a referenda on the status quo. If you like the way things are, you vote for the same party. If you want a change, you vote for the other guy.

Complicating matters are swing voters, who typically don't make up their mind until shortly before the election. Anything from weather to a campaign ad can turn them around. What I am getting it, is that after 4 years of Trump, it was no accident that more people voted against him than in any other election in history. And that's from "all across the political spectrum"...

America's founding fathers were conservative/libertarian. They were harshly critics of what Democrats and Trump coalition say today.

America got rich with libertarian/ conservative ideology. Now it is sinking with "big government" guys.
#15189571
@Istanbuller ;


America's founding fathers were conservative/libertarian.


They were traitors justifying their treason and salving their consciences with daffy political ideology, ideology that has little to no grounding in an understanding of human nature or how to organize such persons in a society.

They were harshly critics of what Democrats and Trump coalition say today.


And? They are not gods that people should listen to them, Olympians that must be obeyed in all things.

America got rich with libertarian/ conservative ideology.


Rich people got richer, the rest of us got the scraps and they try to make us fight each other over that.

Now it is sinking with "big government" guys.


It's ''sinking'' because Empires do that. Especially Empires that are built around so many contradictions.
#15189575
Istanbuller wrote:
America's founding fathers were conservative/libertarian. They were harshly critics of what Democrats and Trump coalition say today.

America got rich with libertarian/ conservative ideology. Now it is sinking with "big government" guys.





The Founding Fathers created a new kind of government, one based on the ideals of the Enlightenment. That's hardly conservative..

That means they knew the world was changing, and that they wanted to change with it. Those are Progressive values, my friend. Look carefully, they gave the tools to change to keep up.

Lastly, the Modern World emerged in the 1800s. If you want all the goodies of capitalism, they come with "big government"...

But that's in the real world, enjoy your fantasy.
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