[Unthinking Majority]

I see a blatant mental illness problem, which leads to drugs and lastly, homelessness. These people would just turn free apartments into crack dens and throw themselves off balconies.

You need mental hospitals and you need to revise the culture at a foundational level.

Clearly, there is not enough social security or promotion of nuclear family.

I agree with this part of your post. The US (GOP really) doesn't care about equitable education, or equitable healthcare. They have failed these people. The housing issue is just part of the issue.

On the other hand, even the best societies have issues with homelessness. People who come from broken homes where abuse was there can often end up on the street, they will run away. If you're on the street it likely means you don't have much family support going on....which is why you're on the street, so I agree there's a failure of family here, which social programs alone unfortunately can't help. It's sad. Kurt Cobain was a sad man, he came from a broken home, he was a drug addict to numb the pain and then shot himself. Maybe his wealth kept him off the streets, but he ended up the same way in the end, so poverty is not the only issue here.

The dysfunction is instilled at an early age, in school then promoted throughout the years. These people gave up to clown world as kids. The demographic is young, in their 20's and early 30's. Poverty alone does not breed this much dysfunction. Why don't you see this many defunct addicts on the streets of India, a place far poorer with far fewer resources to go around?

This is a cultural failure. These people choose to be this way because society told them from the day they were born; "it's ok to be different. It's a virtue to be the victim. These are all positive things you should strive for."

Not sure I entirely agree here. I bet these people are, emotionally or mental-healthwise, not very fortunate.

[Igor Antunov]

Not sure I entirely agree here. I bet these people are, emotionally or mental-healthwise, not very fortunate.

My point was their lifestyle is so protected and nurtured by law and by society it is almost seen as grooming. This most unfortunate of classes is indeed also a protected class. See the police just babysitting them there. Anywhere else they'd be shipped off to the countryside in buses and put to work picking fruit just for being addicted and homeless. Here they're nurtured until they commit some heinous act or murder for another gram of meth then get sent to a prison complex where they manufacture shoes and shirts for 20 years. An entire generation lost.

They need to be pressured into society not nurtured into a permanent underclass. I'm seeing meth addicted mothers nursing babies on the sidewalk in that first video.

Here's a more in depth one:

[colliric]

At least we don't have this problem so bad here in Australia.

Not yet anyway.

[B0ycey]

What do you mean by "real estate" here? Real estate developers are the ones who market those homes, and earn commission. It's far more profitable than managing buildings and collecting rent.

I'm really just discussing the market in general (real estate). There is no inventive to build more homes for anyone who has property, whether that is the people in letting agencies, landlords or as you said before mortgage owners given they profit on the shortage. Although without new homes you have this crisis and the losers are the renters.

[B0ycey]

I see a blatant mental illness problem, which leads to drugs and lastly, homelessness. These people would just turn free apartments into crack dens and throw themselves off balconies.

Then you have no clue of the problem. I happen to have dealt with the homelessness before so have spoken to them and have heard their story. People don't go onto drugs and then become homeless, they become homeless and then go onto drugs. There are a number of issues why people become homeless. In the UK is is largely domestic disputes with a lack of social housing. In LA it is unaffordable rent.

As for India, they have shanty towns which hold a large portion of their population. They are no different to the tent cities of LA except their building material.

[boomerintown]

This issue isn't something that would take down a state. It is an issue of high rents, low housing stock not meeting demand. The solution is to build more homes. But why would real estate do that when they get high rents?

What I meant is more that these problems is a symptom of something terrible wrong in a society. It isnt the homelessnes that could lead to a decline of civilization, it is decline of civilization that leads to this kind of homelessnes. The question is just what happends next?

Mass homelessnes, violent demonstrations in the streets last summer, destroying ordinary peoples property, vital political buildings stormed by a massive mob earlier this year.

One must ask itself what is going on in a society where these things occur? This is what the question should be.

[B0ycey]

What I meant is more that these problems is a symptom of something terrible wrong in a society. It isnt the homelessnes that could lead to a decline of civilization, it is decline of civilization that leads to this kind of homelessnes. The question is just what happends next?

Mass homelessnes, violent demonstrations in the streets last summer, destroying ordinary peoples property, vital political buildings stormed by a massive mob earlier this year.

One must ask itself what is going on in a society where these things occur? This is what the question should be.

Well I agree there is something fundamentally wrong with the US. There is a number of things that have caused it, but to put it bluntly, the issue the US have right now is the wealth divide. But the US isn't in decline. Or not as a national identity level. It maybe on the edge of radical reform if the people there can actually work out what the problem is rather than fighting amongst themselves. But until that happens, you can expect more protests, more tent cities and bullshit wages because those things always occur first before revolutionary reform can take place.

[boomerintown]

Well I agree there is something fundamentally wrong with the US. There is a number of things that have caused it, but to put it bluntly, the issue the US have right now is the wealth divide. But the US isn't in decline. Or not as a national identity level. It maybe on the edge of radical reform if the people there can actually work out what the problem us rather than fighting amongst themselves. But until that happens, you can expect more protests, more tent cities and bullshit wages because those things always occur first before revolutionary reform can take place.

Ok, so take the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Isnt there a significant underlying issue when something like this is allowed to happend?

I think one of the main problems is the outsourcing of the state to private enterprises. Even space travel is apperently outsources to Elon Musk and Amazon?

This is not unlike the ancien regime of France, where private interests occupied more and more positions financed by tax. This is, as I see it, a state in decline.

[B0ycey]

Ok, so take the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Isnt there a significant underlying issue when something like this is allowed to happend?

I think one of the main problems is the outsourcing of the state to private enterprises. Even space travel is apperently outsources to Elon Musk and Amazon?

This is not unlike the ancien regime of France, where private interests occupied more and more positions financed by tax. This is, as I see it, a state in decline.

It really depends what you mean by decline. The US will still be around for the foreseeable future. It is still by and large a patriotic nation which is all that matters in terms of its existence. But it will be in decline in the sense they are taking a more conservative global roll and are losing ground to China today. They were also right to withdraw from Afghanistan in my opinion because they couldn't to much more than prop up a house of cards which cost trillions to keep up. And sure, the US are the kings of the free market so of course they are going to out source domestic projects to the free market. I don't agree they should do that and think it is unwise. But SpaceX has produced results that I doubt a social program could do with the same budget and speed. But even if I accept your arguments, the issue of this thread and where the US really is in decline is the wealth divide I guess. Whilst politics have lobbyists and big business sponsors, we can expect this to continue until people have had enough. I expect more protests, but little less.

[boomerintown]

It really depends what you mean by decline. The US will still be around for the foreseeable future. It is still by and large a patriotic nation which is all that matters in terms of its existence. But it will be in decline in the sense they are taking a more conservative global roll and are losing ground to China today. They were also right to withdraw from Afghanistan in my opinion because they couldn't to much more than prop up a house of cards which cost trillions to keep up. And sure, the US are the kings of the free market so of course they are going to out source domestic projects to the free market. I don't agree they should do that and think it is unwise. But SpaceX has produced results that I doubt a social program could do with the same budget and speed. But even if I accept your arguments, the issue of this thread and where the US really is in decline is the wealth divide I guess. Whilst politics have lobbyists and big business sponsors, we can expect this to continue until people have had enough. I expect more protests, but little less.

Even wealth inequality doesnt really explain these issues, rather it is a state which is unable to take care of its most vurnerable citizens.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

While the US is among the top, several countries (NL, Sweden, Denmark etc) have similar and in some cases even higher wealth inequality.

Wealth inequality can be explained by a lot of different factors. But just having a lot of billionaires is one.

The problem I am pointing at is that government tasks are either abandoned or outsourced. If it is the case that SpaceX is more effective than a state run program would be with the same financing, then this says something about where the state is at.

Private enterprises are not more effecient due to a natural law, rather I would say that in a functioning state its own agencies (without private interests interfering) usually do the job better.

Private businesses are good at selling t-shirts. But they shouldnt be in charge of crucial research programs or be involved in the military.

Also, this is not something that happends over night. Its a trend over decade, with a weakning and less and less effecient state slowly being taken over by private interests. This is what lead up to the french revolution, with a state eventually unable to serve its own interests, and instead being a way for individuals to transfer taxmoney to their own pockets. Isnt this what is happening more and more?

[B0ycey]

@boomerintown

You currently live in a nation (Sweden) that by and large has the right economic strategy. America is on the extreme end of Capitalism whereas Scandinavia is the opposite to that extreme. Without going into everything that is wrong with the US today, where there is a thread for every issue somewhere, I will only address LA housing here. The issue is there isn't enough homes for the demand and as such the rents are high and tent cities are the consequence. That is a problem due to real estate backers sponsoring Californian politicians and there being no incentive to build more homes for anyone who own property.

But even if I agree the US has a wealth divide that is spliting the nation and today they have problems that pretty much every other Western nation has solved decades ago, for the state to be in decline, it must be in a state of collapse, which it is not. The US is unequal. It is however patriotic.

[boomerintown]

@boomerintown

You currently live in a nation (Sweden) that by and large has the right economic strategy. America is on the extreme end of Capitalism whereas Scandinavia is the opposite to that extreme. Without going into everything that is wrong with the US today, where there is a thread for every issue somewhere, I will only address LA housing here. The issue is there isn't enough homes for the demand and as such the rents are high and tent cities are the consequence. That is a problem due to real estate backers sponsoring Californian politicians and there being no incentive to build more homes for anyone who own property.

But even if I agree the US has a wealth divide that is spliting the nation and today they have problems that pretty much every other Western nation has solved decades ago, for the state to be in decline, it must be in a state of collapse, which it is not. The US is unequal. It is however patriotic.

I am in full agreement with this, and I understand that my posts were poorly formulated.

It is obvious that the US have a massive inequality problem, partly due to its culture of an "anti-state-state" in lack of better terms, but perhaps in modern history a failure to go as far with the New Deal as the european countries did with their wellfare states and then go further with its neo-liberal destruction of regulation of the finance markets and so on, than even the UK (who to some degree started it with Thatcher).

And I agree with the analysis that these ideologies shaping the class divides are in one end of the western civilization with perhaps Scandinavia in the other end. In combination with the two party system serving as a pressure cooker for the frustation, as it cannot be released through a new party, this can manifest in basically any way.

But my point is that we need to remember another point to, and it is a more subtle and perhaps even "boring" political development - new public management. The idea, or rather ideology, of managing public institutions as if they were companies, slowly allowing for it to be outsourced to private interests. This erodes its functions from inside, as the system gets less and less effecient at what it does.

[Igor Antunov]

Then you have no clue of the problem. I happen to have dealt with the homelessness before so have spoken to them and have heard their story. People don't go onto drugs and then become homeless, they become homeless and then go onto drugs. There are a number of issues why people become homeless. In the UK is is largely domestic disputes with a lack of social housing. In LA it is unaffordable rent.

As for India, they have shanty towns which hold a large portion of their population. They are no different to the tent cities of LA except their building material.

Mental illness is the core issue.

Those indian shantytowns house functional families that engage in economic activity.

[Unthinking Majority]

Then you have no clue of the problem. I happen to have dealt with the homelessness before so have spoken to them and have heard their story. People don't go onto drugs and then become homeless, they become homeless and then go onto drugs. There are a number of issues why people become homeless. In the UK is is largely domestic disputes with a lack of social housing. In LA it is unaffordable rent.

Homeless from out of state flock to the west coast because it's much easier to live in a tent or sleep on a park bench in that weather. CA is warm and no rain. There's lots of homeless all up the west coast including to Vancouver. Rain and warm is better than freezing winters.

West coast also has laws and programs friendly to the homeless.

[ThirdTerm]

Kensington is one of the poorest areas in Philadelphia, which is the poorest of America's large cities. The area is frequented by a significant number of drug addicts and homeless individuals despite the city's clear-out strategy to address the growing homeless population there. Folks are coming from all over America because they know Kensington is an open-air drug market. It is a billion-dollar open-air drug market on top of the homeless encampments, serving as a safe place for drug addicts. The city and region have maintained a decades-long strategy of containing a billion-dollar drug market in this neighborhood. The laws that govern drug sales, use, and acceptable behaviors on streets in the rest of Philadelphia very purposefully do not apply there. The market is there because it is far away from affluent areas whose residents drive in to buy drugs and leave.

[B0ycey]

Homeless from out of state flock to the west coast because it's much easier to live in a tent or sleep on a park bench in that weather. CA is warm and no rain. There's lots of homeless all up the west coast including to Vancouver. Rain and warm is better than freezing winters.

West coast also has laws and programs friendly to the homeless.

It is frankly embarrassing that you wrote this actually. Not necessarily what you wrote, but that I don't think you understand what you wrote in the context of the housing crisis. If the homeless are coming to the West Coast for the weather or for their programs which are friendly towards them, which is debatable anyway but whatever, that still suggests there is a fucking problem doesn't it! The homeless have to be homeless to begin with in order to have the need for better weather conditions to have relevance in your post. So if you fix that they then don't need to flock to LA to they?

The homeless are no different to anyone else. They might engage in activity that you don't agree with but hardship would effect you in the same way. There was a film called Trading Places that touched up on this subject and although fictional, is basically what happens in reality in any case. And sure, it makes sense for the homeless to come to California given they are actually helping their plight. They might not be actually fixing their plight, and sure that would be better than hand outs. But until America want to actually fix this problem, that is just the way it has to be.

[Unthinking Majority]

It is frankly embarrassing that you wrote this actually. Not necessarily what you wrote, but that I don't think you understand what you wrote in the context of the housing crisis. If the homeless are coming to the West Coast for the weather or for their programs which are friendly towards them, which is debatable anyway but whatever, that still suggests there is a fucking problem doesn't it! The homeless have to be homeless to begin with in order to have the need for better weather conditions to have relevance in your post. So if you fix that they then don't need to flock to LA to they?

The homeless are no different to anyone else. They might engage in activity that you don't agree with but hardship would effect you in the same way. There was a film called Trading Places that touched up on this subject and although fictional, is basically what happens in reality in any case. And sure, it makes sense for the homeless to come to California given they are actually helping their plight. They might not be actually fixing their plight, and sure that would be better than hand outs. But until America want to actually fix this problem, that is just the way it has to be.

I responded to you claim that it was due to LA housing prices, which isn't really true, since anyone who was sane would simply move to another town. Housing costs are high in most of CA and many cities in the country, which is a significant part of the problem.

I know of lots of people under 40 who still live with their parents because they can't afford a home. Some of them even have kids. The homeless are people largely from broken homes who don't have parents they can move back in with when they go unemployed or can't afford housing. I've worked with the homeless. A lot of the homeless are also victims of abuse as children, so they run away, or get put into foster homes/group homes and run away as teens, and then they get into drugs to cope. So I would say 2 of the major components here are: 1. broken families, and 2. housing costs.

The drugs just compound the issues already present. Hard to pull yourself out of that if you're an addict.

[Rugoz]

It think it's weird that the government doesn't pay the rent of the unemployed (within limits). I mean how are you supposed to get your life in order when you live on the street.

[Igor Antunov]

I saw much of this in Vegas when I was there in 2013. I expected to though so it didn't surprise me. Back then LA wasn't too bad. We did get mugged by homies in LA but that was to be expected as well.

But then we went to Washington DC and damn, so many homeless and mentally ill screaming on the streets. Same in New York.

I suppose they've all migrated to California now.

[jimjam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNu0fRT5oYs

Disgustaaaang.

No functional country allows this shit. Failed state confirmed. Nuke it from orbit.

Clearly Obese Donald is not aware of this situation. He will no doubt initiate a program promoting new tax reductions for billionaires once he is informed accordingly. "Trickle down (way down) economics" will be the usual justification for increasing the national debt while giving billionaires a few more billion to top off their existing billions.