Kyle Rittenhouse Trial - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15197970
Rittenhouse belong in prison. It will be yet another travesty of justice if he's found not guilty. Lethal force shouldn't be permitted unless the person is threatened with the same. He was not. No one else had guns.

That @colliric supports him is not surprising, given he supported James Fields and his murder of a protester in Charlottesville. :knife:
#15197974
ckaihatsu wrote:Related:

An anti-fascist activist in Florida was sentenced to 44 months in federal prison for his social media posts that called for armed defense against possible far-right attacks on the state’s Capitol in the wake of the January 6th riots.

Daniel Baker, a 34-year-old yoga teacher and emergency medical technician trainee, had no previous criminal convictions and has already been held for 10 months of harsh pretrial detention, including seven months in solitary confinement. He never brought a weapon near a government building; he amassed no armed anti-fascist forces; he made no threats on a single individual.

And yet Baker is receiving a punishment far worse than most of the Trump supporters who perpetrated the violence and vandalism upon the Capitol complex. For example, a Texas man who joined the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol was sentenced Monday to 45 days behind bars. Others have received probation or other legal slaps on the wrist. Baker simply expressed in his posts what a lot of other Americans were feeling. The FBI had warned of the potential for armed protests at state capitols. Florida is home to over 60 far-right, white supremacist, and neo-Nazi groups recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and there are well-reported links between Florida police departments and far-right militia groups.


This man's sentence is a travesty. I would hope that all principled patriots will protest vigorously against his sentence. Note that it's a question of "First, they came for the anarchist cuckoo's, but ..." This is exactly the sort of thing they will use against our people, when they post unwise things on social media.

Ignore the nonsense from the vile 'Southern Poverty Law Center'. This guy should not be in prison.
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15197976
Godstud wrote:Rittenhouse belong in prison. It will be yet another travesty of justice if he's found not guilty. Lethal force shouldn't be permitted unless the person is threatened with the same. He was not. No one else had guns.

That @colliric supports him is not surprising, given he supported James Fields and his murder of a protester in Charlottesville. :knife:


Agreed. This judge is playing a dangerous game. Not allowing evidence that sets the tone/setting seems rather odd.

The guy gets an assault weapon illegally, frequent supremacists social media, has expressed his wishes to do something like this... does it... and it is "self-defense".
Its like watching a guy go out in the morning wearing waterproof clothes, stinking like worms, carrying 3-4 fishing poles and when he arrives at home at 5pm, you say "he got the fish in the supermarket, forget that he was wearing fishing attire, that will not be admissible as evidence to the contrary".
#15197977
Doug1943 wrote:
This man's sentence is a travesty. I would hope that all principled patriots will protest vigorously against his sentence. Note that it's a question of "First, they came for the anarchist cuckoo's, but ..." This is exactly the sort of thing they will use against our people, when they post unwise things on social media.

Ignore the nonsense from the vile 'Southern Poverty Law Center'. This guy should not be in prison.



SpecialOlympian wrote:
Always a good sign when you have a hate on for the SPLC. Puts you in good company with people like Mazi.



You're implying some kind of a *schism* between the politics of the SPLC, and the politics of Daniel Baker, Doug. Got any source for that?
#15197978
He won't get off. The courthouse is surrounded by 500 national guard and the judge is being publicly lambasted by the media for his ringtone. The jury is 100% demoralized and intimidated-will be forced to go with the narrative.

Godstud wrote:Rittenhouse belong in prison. It will be yet another travesty of justice if he's found not guilty. Lethal force shouldn't be permitted unless the person is threatened with the same. He was not. No one else had guns.

That @colliric supports him is not surprising, given he supported James Fields and his murder of a protester in Charlottesville. :knife:


Except for the guy that did, pointed it at him and had his arm blown off.

It's all televised and on video, the FBI even had a drone overhead recording the hole thing, no way to re-imagine this one. The primary witness, the guy that got shot, backed Kyle's version of events-self defense. It comes down to jury intimidation and that's in full swing. They will Trump up a manslaughter charge.
#15197979
Igor Antunov wrote:He won't get off. The courthouse is surrounded by 500 national guard and the judge is being publicly lambasted by the media for his ringtone. The jury is 100% demoralized and intimidated-will be forced to go with the narrative.

True justice is doing what the violent mob wants regardless of evidence.
#15197984
And the following commentator raises a crucial point -- if the government is unwilling and/or unable to defend the public from vigilantes like Rittenhouse, then how *does* society neutralize vigilantes -- !



Charles T • 3 days ago

Unless the jury can see through this fascist judge's plot to exonerate Rittenhouse this will propel the militias into a quasi-official role in violent suppression of protest and terrorization of the left and workers. The US is becoming like its client regimes in Latin America.



http://disq.us/p/2koqbk9
#15197987
ckaihatsu wrote:
how *does* society neutralize vigilantes -- !



I'll note that the aforementioned Daniel Baker proactively fought the fascist Islamists....



There, he fought with the Kurdish People’s Protection Units against ISIS.



The internationalist involvement in Rojava has been compared to the communist International Brigades who fought against Francisco Franco’s forces in the Spanish Civil War.



https://theintercept.com/2021/10/16/dan ... itol-riot/



---



viewtopic.php?p=15197974#p15197974



viewtopic.php?p=15197663#p15197663
#15198003
Godstud wrote:Rittenhouse belong in prison. It will be yet another travesty of justice if he's found not guilty. Lethal force shouldn't be permitted unless the person is threatened with the same. He was not. No one else had guns.

That @colliric supports him is not surprising, given he supported James Fields and his murder of a protester in Charlottesville. :knife:


I most certainly did NOT support Mr Fields and I do not support Rittenhouse.

Look up "Devil's Advocate" in the dictionary please.
Last edited by colliric on 14 Nov 2021 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
By Rich
#15198004
SpecialOlympian wrote:I think you'll like this ckaihatsu.

Image

I mean how are we meant to deal with a post like this that already has three likes. Are the people who support this liars? Are they retards? Trans issues, Gay marriage, representation of deep-African-Americans in top jobs throughout society, environmental regulation, health and safety. It just goes on and on. Its only a few decades ago that Gay Marriage was consider barking mad, top level lunacy. Its now considered a hate crime in many places to say that omen have vagainas.

To make saying women have vaginas a hate crime is a massive, massive victory for the Left. Its like if Luxembourg conquered North America and then started whining that they kept losing.
#15198005
Rich wrote:I mean how are we meant to deal with a post like this that already has three likes. Are the people who support this liars? Are they retards? Trans issues, Gay marriage, representation of deep-African-Americans in top jobs throughout society, environmental regulation, health and safety. It just goes on and on. Its only a few decades ago that Gay Marriage was consider barking mad, top level lunacy. Its now considered a hate crime in many places to say that omen have vagainas.

To make saying women have vaginas a hate crime is a massive, massive victory for the Left. Its like if Luxembourg conquered North America and then started whining that they kept losing.

On cultural issues, the Left is winning; but on economic issues the Right is winning. We are still living with the fallout of the Cultural Revolution which the West experienced from 1959 to 1973. Politically, it was an abject failure, but culturally it changed everything. And that cultural revolution is still ongoing, and the Left is still winning it. Yet the victory of right-wing economics and the victory of left-wing so-called "cultural Marxism" (aka the Frankfurt School) are closely linked. If individualism and liberalism are to be valorised in the sphere of economics, then why should they not be valorised in the sphere of culture too? The logic is inescapable. The more victories the Right gain in the economic sphere, the more they pave the way for the Left's victories in the cultural sphere. That is the real 'ratchet effect'.
#15198006
Potemkin wrote:On cultural issues, the Left is winning; but on economic issues the Right is winning. We are still living with the fallout of the Cultural Revolution which the West experienced from 1959 to 1973. Politically, it was an abject failure, but culturally it changed everything. And that cultural revolution is still ongoing, and the Left is still winning it. Yet the victory of right-wing economics and the victory of left-wing so-called "cultural Marxism" (aka the Frankfurt School) are closely linked. If individualism and liberalism are to be valorised in the sphere of economics, then why should they not be valorised in the sphere of culture too? The logic is inescapable. The more victories the Right gain in the economic sphere, the more they pave the way for the Left's victories in the cultural sphere. That is the real 'ratchet effect'.


What is your opinion on this type of cultural leftism we've been seeing in the West since the '60s onward?

They did not have this in the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact countries, although I'm sure they would have supported it in the West in some respect, even if not in their own countries. But who knows.

Do you see all of this as a positive development?
#15198007
Political Interest wrote:What is your opinion on this type of cultural leftism we've been seeing in the West since the '60s onward?

They did not have this in the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact countries, although I'm sure they would have supported it in the West in some respect, even if not in their own countries. But who knows.

Do you see all of this as a positive development?

I see it as an inevitable development. There has been a general move in the West away from authoritarianism and tradition towards (classical) liberalism in economics and (modern) liberalism in matters of culture, religion and government. This process began in the 18th century with the Enlightenment, and went into overdrive in the aftermath of the Second World War, in part as a reaction against Nazism. The West doubled down on the Enlightenment Project after 1945. Factor in the selfish rebellious nature of the Baby Boomer generation in the 1960s and 70s, plus the ideological victory of neo-liberal and monetarist economics, and the collapse of the authoritarian, collectivist alternative model of the Soviet Union in 1991, and we are where we are....

Whether one sees it as a positive or a negative development rather depends on one's background. It's largely a generational thing. To anyone born after approximately the mid-1990s, they take it for granted and would be horrified by anything else. Just as the older generations are and were horrified by anything other than the cultural traditions they grew up with.
#15198008
Rich wrote:I mean how are we meant to deal with a post like this that already has three likes. Are the people who support this liars? Are they retards? Trans issues, Gay marriage, representation of deep-African-Americans in top jobs throughout society, environmental regulation, health and safety. It just goes on and on. Its only a few decades ago that Gay Marriage was consider barking mad, top level lunacy. Its now considered a hate crime in many places to say that omen have vagainas.

To make saying women have vaginas a hate crime is a massive, massive victory for the Left. Its like if Luxembourg conquered North America and then started whining that they kept losing.


Potemkin answered this but the fact that you can only answer this in terms of in terms of "So I can't call them f!@#$^s anymore?" only proves how bankrupt rightwing thought is in terms of how it can actually improve your material conditions. Because rightwing thought will never actually provide any solutions that increase your pay, provide healthcare, etc. they offer the opportunity to hurt or diminish other people instead so that you can at least feel better about whatever shit situation you have.

Also you can say women have vaginas anywhere, if you piss people off with that that's more of a "you" problem.

The rightwing will glaldy acquiesce on all the hatreds you hold dear because ultimately there is no reason to exclude a worker from the workforce because they want to devalue labor. Your labor.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 14 Nov 2021 12:13, edited 1 time in total.
By Rich
#15198009
Potemkin wrote:and went into overdrive in the aftermath of the Second World War, in part as a reaction against Nazism. The West doubled down on the Enlightenment Project after 1945.

Ah but that's the funny thing it didn't. There was no great reaction to Nazism after 1945, in fact I'd argue that there was no reaction at all in 1945. The reaction only came decades late. I know I wind lefties up by refusing to give them the praise they so desperately crave. I have enormous respect for the people in Germany, in Poland, in the Ukraine and in the rest of Nazi occupied Europe who opposed Nazi rule even in very small ways. But I have nothing but contempt for those that want to fight the Nazis in 2021.

In 1945 in Britain there was almost zero self reflection that we might be like the Nazis ourselves, and I'm sure it was much the same in other countries. Prejudice against the Jews carried on much as before. In Poland I believe 5000 Jews were murdered in pogroms in hte late 1940s after the Nazis had been expelled. Apart from a few intellectuals, no one worried that being prejudiced against Jews was some sort of slippery slope to Auschwitz. They would have quite rightly seen it as absurd. Even Jews themselves in Israel didn't worry about committing atrocities against Arabs because that would make them like the Nazis. The only way they were concerned on differentiating themselves from the Nazis was on not ending up losers like the Nazis. I mean if modern Zionism wasn't National Socialist in its earlier decades I don't know what was.

People happily carried on beating up homosexuals, humiliating them and sending to prison. No one worried that this was the sort of thing that Nazis did. Attitudes to women remained deeply patronising by our own standards, but no one worried that we shared a patriarchal ideology with the Nazis. Even on empire. The dissolution of the British, French and Belgian empires may have been hastened by the humiliating defeats we suffered in the early part of the war, but this was really just a continuation of pre war policy, I see little evidence that there was any great rush to divest ourselves of empire to avoid the moral taint of Nazi-Likeism.

:lol: No the great heroic struggle against Nazism, Unser Kampf, only began decades later.
#15198010
Rich wrote:Ah but that's the funny thing it didn't. There was no great reaction to Nazism after 1945,


OK but what about before that? Kind of feel like you're cutting off things here to make a point.
#15198012
Potemkin wrote:I see it as an inevitable development. There has been a general move in the West away from authoritarianism and tradition towards (classical) liberalism in economics and (modern) liberalism in matters of culture, religion and government. This process began in the 18th century with the Enlightenment, and went into overdrive in the aftermath of the Second World War, in part as a reaction against Nazism. The West doubled down on the Enlightenment Project after 1945. Factor in the selfish rebellious nature of the Baby Boomer generation in the 1960s and 70s, plus the ideological victory of neo-liberal and monetarist economics, and the collapse of the authoritarian, collectivist alternative model of the Soviet Union in 1991, and we are where we are....

Whether one sees it as a positive or a negative development rather depends on one's background. It's largely a generational thing. To anyone born after approximately the mid-1990s, they take it for granted and would be horrified by anything else. Just as the older generations are and were horrified by anything other than the cultural traditions they grew up with.


Inevitable perhaps, but I don't like it.

I was born well after 1945 and I simply dislike the trajectory of post-modernity.

You will not have a Marxist society or any sort of society. Socialists don't seem to realise that you can't have left wing economics and socialism of the type they imagine without some level of social solidarity and collectivism. Rabid individualism and socialism do not mix. They forget that there is also an idealistic component to socialism that requires a person to be willing to put the building socialism before their own needs. Cultural leftism is destroying the foundations for any such socialism.

Part of the socialism of the Warsaw Pact countries was the notion that you did not need lots of consumer items, you had a few, but your sense of happiness and meaning in life came from building socialism, or through romanticism, love of nature etc. Well, I am not sure this was officially in writing but it seems to have been conveyed unofficially.

This has little to do with causes or left wing and right wing political thought but more just the general cultural state of a society. We are regressing into I don't know what.

It will just be vapid emptiness. No more art, no more culture, no more beauty. Where will we be in such a world? Somehow I fear there will never be another Gustav Mahler. That is not any sort of world. It's as though in post-modernity we are losing any sense of what makes life truly worth living. We are living in some type of anesthetised simulacra of reality.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 44

...Or maybe because there are many witnesses sayin[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

If the tunnels were built by Hamas openly, then th[…]

Sounds like perfect organized crime material ex[…]

Commercial foreclosures increase 97% from last ye[…]