Roe VS Wade officially goes back before the Supreme Court - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15200548
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

The game's afoot.

Everyone knows where I stand on this, I will be popping the cork if this goes either pro-state law(a win is a win) or fully Pro-life.

I believe they will send the decision back to the states. Republican majority states should be free to ban it as is their democratic right and Democratic majority states free to accept pregnant interstate travellers.

Edit: Salty Democrat tears on Twitter about this going back to the Supreme Court are sweet. They still believe Saint Hillary would have solved everything and rigging the court by getting rid of the tiebreaker vote, is the way to go.

Newsflash BOTH THE TRUMPS AND CLINTONS ARE IMPLICATED IN THE MAXWELL TRIAL. THE CLINTON FAMILY MORE SO. Should have supported Bernie, on both occasions. He was a far better genuine Democrat, better than Clinton and Biden.
#15200664
Roe V. Wade is dead. No hope for it.

IT should die though. If we are going to reimpose the patriarchy we need control of women's bodies. Women have been getting far to uppity lately as it is.

There is no way abortion survives except in states that enact protections for it. Besides. Women, who outnumber men by a significant margin cannot even get the Equal Rights Amendment passed.

Women are political nonstarters. What do you expect from the weaker sex.
#15200666
Even if it survives this formal assault, the Texans finding the legal loophole basically killed it anyway.

Everyone should agree that Planned Parenthood needs to be bankrupted anyway after getting nothing but a slap on the wrist for what they exposed as doing in 2012. Selling body parts on the black market to the highest bidder like Boris Karloff in The Body Snatcher was disgusting and Margret Sanger's racist white supremacist eugenics quotes usually result in organisations being cancelled and statues being removed. Basically gave the Republicans ammo when the Democrats decided to continue supporting the organisation financially anyway "because women's choice trumps wanton corruption and founder being publically exposed as a racist White Eugenicist".

USA Today's published opinion article on her extreme Racism:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 480192002/

Planned Parenthood's own admission she was racist as fuck and they need to distance themselves from her to survive:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/opin ... anger.html
#15200677
DRLEE

A damn sight more than this. Why haven't American women been out on the streets protesting with banners indicating they won't spend dollar one over Christmas and possibly beyond if this passes. This could put the financial services on their side, and scare the stuffings out of the 'block anortion' judges.

You know me well enough to know i'm not a huge fan of abortion but this is utterly turgid. Almost all women struggle with the notion of abortion, but sometimes stuff happens. Like young women being violated. Why drag it out? Why put her political/financial /educational well being at risk. And where in the wide world of sports did you find a female judge to turn you into The Handmaiden's tale. And as for that allegedly drunken male tart, Brett Kavanaugh, what woman, or her partner give him a say?

What next? Twitter pages on these women?

Thank the good Lord I'm Canadian...
#15200679
This is not just a debate over Women's Rights, this is also actually a debate on how to punish Planned Parenthood for the organisation's extreme corruption and history of defending a racist white supremacist.

This is like if Henry Ford's motor company, with the full financial and political support of Democrats, spent their entire century long history privately and occasionally publically defending his anti-semitism only to suddenly change very very recently (literally last year) because the general public just wised up to it as a result of them sharing his quotes through modern technology. The company would need to pay, and pay hard. They would need to be legally bankrupted, or have the entire board sacked and completely new individuals brought in. An apology wouldn't be enough. Unlike Planned Parenthood, that company spend the last 60-70 years publically opposing it's founder's wanton Antisemitism and not making excuses for it, while at the same time acknowledging and celebrating his legacy and achievement in automotive history specifically.

People who frame this solely on "Pro-life" VS "Pro-Choice" don't understand the subtleties of the current debate.

The Democrats gave NO OTHER OPTION but to kill Roe VS Wade in order to bankrupt an organisation the clearly deserves it, and if it was decided solely by the Stock Market and investors, it would already have happened. They've give no other option for justice to occur against Planned Parenthood for its lifelong defence of a racist white supremacist and it's history of selling body parts to the highest bidder.

What they did was far far worse than Elizabeth Holmes.
Last edited by colliric on 03 Dec 2021 02:17, edited 1 time in total.
#15200684
colliric wrote:This is not just a debate over Women's Rights, this is also actually a debate on how to punish Planned Parenthood for the organisation's extreme corruption and history of defending a racist white supremacist.

This is like if Henry Ford's motor company, with the full financial and political support of Democrats, spent their entire century long history privately and occasionally publically defending his anti-semitism only to suddenly change very very recently (literally last year) because the general public just wised up to it as a result of them sharing his quotes through modern technology. The company would need to pay, and pay hard. They would need to be legally bankrupted, or have the entire board sacked and completely new individuals brought in. An apology wouldn't be enough.

People who frame this solely on "Pro-life" VS "Pro-Choice" don't understand the subtleties of the current debate.

The Democrats gave NO OTHER OPTION but to kill Roe VS Wade in order to bankrupt an organisation the clearly deserves it, and if it was decided solely by the Stock Market and investors, it would already have happened. They've give no other option for justice to occur against Planned Parenthood for its lifelong defence of a racist white supremacist and it's history of selling body parts to the highest bidder.

What they did was far far worse than Elizabeth Holmes.


Yeah lets just reduce everything to some scarecrow phantomine figure that needs to be punished, and ignore the actual principles and long therm effects of laws.

It's all about virtue signals and personal attacks. Who need principles?
#15200685
Stormsmith wrote:DRLEE

A damn sight more than this. Why haven't American women been out on the streets protesting with banners indicating they won't spend dollar one over Christmas and possibly beyond if this passes. This could put the financial services on their side, and scare the stuffings out of the 'block anortion' judges.

You know me well enough to know i'm not a huge fan of abortion but this is utterly turgid. Almost all women struggle with the notion of abortion, but sometimes stuff happens. Like young women being violated. Why drag it out? Why put her political/financial /educational well being at risk. And where in the wide world of sports did you find a female judge to turn you into The Handmaiden's tale. And as for that allegedly drunken male tart, Brett Kavanaugh, what woman, or her partner give him a say?

What next? Twitter pages on these women?

Thank the good Lord I'm Canadian...


From your mouth to God's ears. Indeed where are they. The economic boycott will work wonders. They would have the oligarchs crawling to beg forgiveness.

I hate abortion also. It is ugly and dehumanizing at its very best. But making a woman's body the property of the state is not the answer.
#15200686
The fact is the organisation would have been able to be punished for this and driven bankrupt if it relied on the free market.

The Democrats instead of killing it off and finding someone new, basically propped it up and defend it
to the death instead. Just as they also supported, funded, encouraged and celebrated Elizabeth Holmes(along with Murdoch's investment too).

This has become literally the only way to enact justice against them.

For me personally this is more about Planned Parenthood being driven bankrupt than it is about arguing over women's rights.

Why didn't you Democrats wise up and throw them under the bus where they belong?

@SpecialOlympian, last year they admitted the organisation spent most of its existence defending a White Supremacist Eugenicist and enacting her racist policies against your cultural group. Why do you NOT believe they should be killed off and at the minimum at least be replaced with a different provider?
#15200691
colliric wrote:This is not just a debate over Women's Rights, this is also actually a debate on how to punish Planned Parenthood for the organisation's extreme corruption and history of defending a racist white supremacist.

This is like if Henry Ford's motor company, with the full financial and political support of Democrats, spent their entire century long history privately and occasionally publically defending his anti-semitism only to suddenly change very very recently (literally last year) because the general public just wised up to it as a result of them sharing his quotes through modern technology. The company would need to pay, and pay hard. They would need to be legally bankrupted, or have the entire board sacked and completely new individuals brought in. An apology wouldn't be enough. Unlike Planned Parenthood, that company spend the last 60-70 years publically opposing it's founder's wanton Antisemitism and not making excuses for it, while at the same time acknowledging and celebrating his legacy and achievement in automotive history specifically.

People who frame this solely on "Pro-life" VS "Pro-Choice" don't understand the subtleties of the current debate.

The Democrats gave NO OTHER OPTION but to kill Roe VS Wade in order to bankrupt an organisation the clearly deserves it, and if it was decided solely by the Stock Market and investors, it would already have happened. They've give no other option for justice to occur against Planned Parenthood for its lifelong defence of a racist white supremacist and it's history of selling body parts to the highest bidder.

What they did was far far worse than Elizabeth Holmes.


More unhinged talking points that I'm sure you got from "the local news" and definitely not some weirdo rightwing podcaster or youtuber.

@SpecialOlympian, last year they admitted the organisation spent most of its existence defending a White Supremacist Eugenicist and enacting her racist policies against your cultural group. Why do you NOT believe they should be killed off and at the minimum at least be replaced with a different provider?


Who are "they"? What are you even going on about? Why, of all people, are you comparing Margaret Sanger to Elizabeth Holmes? The fuck are you on right now?

Like I've heard the stupid "Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist" argument before from the freaks who put up the genocide abortion wall on my college campus. I don't give a shit, her views on perfecting the human race through eugenics weren't even radical for the time, and none of that changes the fact that reproductive health services (in addition to the many other services Planned Parenthood provides) should be free and easily accessible to everyone.

You seriously think the purpose of Planned Parenthood for decades after her death was to promote and defend Sanger's legacy? And not, you know, provide health services? A woman most people don't even know the name of? Where in the fuck are you getting all of this moronic drivel from? (We know it's your local news, the same station that did the "Spermjackers on the Loose" special.)
#15200693
This is like if Henry Ford's motor company, with the full financial and political support of Democrats, spent their entire century long history privately and occasionally publically defending his anti-semitism only to suddenly change very very recently (literally last year) because the general public just wised up to it as a result of them sharing his quotes through modern technology. The company would need to pay, and pay hard. They would need to be legally bankrupted, or have the entire board sacked and completely new individuals brought in.


Sigh. Someone claims to be a conservative and then the next thing you know they are spouting socialist nonsense.

I find it edifying that you do not believe in private property rights. Ford is essentially a family owned business. As a conservative I believe they can do what they like with their personal property. Socialists like you Rich, often forget the whole notion of private property. 8)
#15200695
Drlee wrote:Sigh. Someone claims to be a conservative and then the next thing you know they are spouting socialist nonsense.

I find it edifying that you do not believe in private property rights. Ford is essentially a family owned business. As a conservative I believe they can do what they like with their personal property. Socialists like you Rich, often forget the whole notion of private property. 8)

Well the quoted text was actually written by @colliric I believe. But I've never claimed to be a conservative. I support non absolute private property. I don't support state control over women's bodies any more than I support State control over my body when it comes to vaccines.

No me and American Conservatives disagree quite strongly. They wish that America's ghettos of all races and ethnicities had far, far more people in them. I don't. We don't need more people in the world and we certainly don't need more poor people with high propensity to criminality, ill health and social degeneration. The idea that a human life begins at conception strikes me as something that only a cretin could believe in.
#15200696
Drlee wrote:Sigh. Someone claims to be a conservative and then the next thing you know they are spouting socialist nonsense.


I'm an Australian Liberal, not a conservative. Australian Liberals tend to have mixed Conservative-Socialist political views. I also support Universal Healthcare aka Medicare for all.

I'm not lying when I said Bernie was right up my alley(he supports Universal Healthcare) and Tulsi Gabbard is right up my alley being the best current Democratic "mixed bag" politician.

You seriously think the purpose of Planned Parenthood for decades after her death was to promote and defend Sanger's legacy?


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... enter-over

And the CEO:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/opin ... anger.html

We will no longer make excuses or apologize for Margaret Sanger’s actions. But we can’t simply call her racist, scrub her from our history, and move on. We must examine how we have perpetuated her harms over the last century — as an organization, an institution, and as individuals.


..... From the horse's mouth literally last year. Admitting to their own historical White Supremacism.
#15200697
Like I said colliric, who gives a shit? The purpose of Planned Parenthood is to provide health services, not glorify Margaret Sanger. I don't give a shit if Sanger bought into eugenics or once spoke to the ladies of the Ku Klux Klan not long after Birth of a Nation was the first film to ever be screened in the White House. Racism was written into America's founding documents and it's still an immensely racist nation. None of this invalidates the fact that the only issue, if any, with Planned Parenthood is that its services aren't universally available to all people regardless of race or gender.

Also just lol, just fucking lol that you believe the GOP or the Misogyny Lobby give even the tiniest shit about addressing the historic racism of any institution or individual and aren't just using the most convenient rhetorical cudgel available. If there's any party that is interested in addressing the endemic racism of America it is the GOP. You know, the same party that is running on making sure CRT isn't taught in schools because white children are too precious to learn about how violently America resisted the Civil Rights Movement.

And again, what local news outlet are you getting all of your information from? Because the black market sale of body parts stuff is misogyny lobby bullshit.
#15200699
To be honest with you, I really don't understand why you guys just refuse to clean the slate and start over.

I have Pro-life views, but I'm not beyond playing Devils Advocate and tell you how much it would improve your argument if you supported a new major provider taking over and ditched the outdated one.

That organisation has way too much baggage at this point. Even "signalling a fresh start" by renaming the organisation and firing the remaining "old guard" would be an improvement. I don't anyone in the their right mind would support that organisation getting any forced taxpayer support anymore, certainly not with their current business model.
#15200701
colliric wrote:To be honest with you, I really don't understand why you guys just refuse to clean the slate and start over.


Because that's the point of the propaganda you're repeating: to destroy an organization that provides health services to women (and also men, but the propagandists don't like to discuss the non-abortion services PP provides).

"Why do you not simply tear down all of your health infrastructure because of some bad faith arguments from people with an agenda? Surely, that will placate them."

-An idiot


Why don't we just go the opposite way and demand that all misogyny groups start from a blank slate because of their violent attacks on reproductive health clinics, history of committing fraud, and daily intimidation of women seeking health services? Why is the onus on Planned Parenthood to satisfy people who hate them?
#15200702
SpecialOlympian wrote:Because that's the point of the propaganda you're repeating: to destroy an organization that provides health services to women (and also men).


When a ship is clearly sinking, having hit an iceberg, do you put on your lifejacket and jump in the lifeboat or stay on board and man the water pumps?

The boat is taking on too much water(baggage). Get off safely and find another boat to sail on.

My point being that vacuums can be filled. Boats can be replaced. Medical services can be handed over to new management, reformed and be given brand new names just like any other company or service.
#15200703
And Planned Parenthood is sinking how? What part of this ruling affects them and their continued ability to exist? I'm sure you, someone who is clearly deeply immersed in rightwing misogyny lobby propaganda, would see it that way, but you are repeating almost word for word the same shit I heard from the freaks who showed up with a 20 foot tall wall of of genocide images to my campus every year to try and guilt people into hating women's bodies. If they were mainstream opinions they wouldn't need to do that.

I can tell you that I would feel better if the same people who stand outside of clinics shouting at women simply rebranded. If one of those fake health clinics that tried to talk women out of abortions simply reopened with an "Under New Management!" sign I would breathe a sigh of relief and no longer have any issues with them.

Is this helping you understand how moronic your argument is? That you are saying people should capitulate and grant undeserved victories to bad faith actors out of some vague sense that their bad faith arguments need to be satisfied? This is the same line of thinking you had with "Maybe we should redo the election because Donald Trump lied about it enough, and it would make the people who lost ~feel better~ if we simply gave in to all of their demands."
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