[wat0n]

"Poorest 60%".

Get real. At most 14% goes to those who are actually poor (earning less than $26,500 for a household of 4, the cutoff for the poorest 20% of all households in Table 2A is greater than that). The largest beneficiary are middle class households, then low income households, then some upper middle class households and even a few upper class households.

And many beneficiaries, many of those pushing to benefit from this program, are those who are quick to lecture the middle class they are part of to be conscious of their privileges inherent to being part of the American middle and upper classes. Doing the talk, but not doing the walk.

[Pants-of-dog]

Anyone can read the chart.

To claim that this is benefiting rich people more is incorrect.

This new argument, that it helps rich people, seems both irrelevant and not entirely correct.

[Drlee]

@Pants-of-dog the Wharton piece is simply an estimate of the cost of Biden's proposal. It doesn't quite mash up with the fiscal sustainability issues that are long recognized the US suffers from.

Some argument along the lines "well, it will stimulate the economy" doesn't cut it because if you want to transfer public funds to individuals to do so, you'll get a better yield by giving them to the poor than to middle class college grads.

How about you start with some evidence that giving money to the poor gives a "better yield" than giving them to "middle class college grads". Because I would argue that you first have to define what you are trying to "yield".

You may get better "feels" by doing that but your fatuous statement flies in the face of you other posts in this thread and others that argues against giving money to the poor and/or demonizes them for contributing to the deficit.

You can see, gentle reader, in @wat0n posts the reason we, as a nation, can't agree to tackle the hard problems. The political discussion is so tribal that sticking to the problem is nearly impossible in the face of diversionary rhetoric. This is not about "poor people". It is, at the end of the day, only about "fairness" when it comes to one segment of our society.

The student debt problem is not THE issue facing the careful management of our economy. It is, however, one that is making a lot of people miserable. Not all people. If we want to discuss the poor, and I am overjoyed to do that every chance I get, then we ought to start a thread about this.

Here is food for thought. The USA is the largest single economy in the world. By a good measure. And just like our rip-off medical system students in the USA pay BY FAR, higher tuition than any of the other OECD nations.

Why? In my opinion very much largely because of these stupid student loans. If we funded our state and local public colleges and universities, as most civilized nations do, and provided nearly free tuition, we would not only help our current students but make it possible for poorer students to attend college thereby breaking the cycle of poverty a little at a time. But we don't. Why? Because republicans won't have it. They much prefer to transfer the money to the hyper wealthy.

The city of Tucson is a glaring example of the excesses of money thrown at our education institutions in the US. The downtown area, not even that close to the University of Arizona is exploding with upscale student housing. Dorms, which used to cost a small amount can run up to over $1200.00 a month! Inexpensive dorms are very limited. So we have an industry that prays on students while our government subsidizes their predatory behavior by loaning students whatever it takes at high interest rates.

I guess I shouldn't care. My students seem happy enough. Most, but not all, are bound for something in medicine. Most really do not understand what is about to hit them. But one med student the other day commented to me, "I would really prefer family medicine" but I am going to apply for Gastro. At least I will be able to pay my loans. If I can match, anyway."

What a tragedy. This young woman is willing to do a job she finds second most rewarding (at best) just to pay her student loans.

As I get ready to post this I see that we have another attempt at class warfare by @wat0n even after he has targeted the poor for a few dozen posts. Cynical at best.

[wat0n]

How about you start with some evidence that giving money to the poor gives a "better yield" than giving them to "middle class college grads". Because I would argue that you first have to define what you are trying to "yield".

"Yield" in this case means consumption-driven GDP growth.

It's not controversial that, for an extra dollar earned, poorer households will dedicate more to it to consumption. I can cite you a paper if you want, but you won't read it will you?

You may get better "feels" by doing that but your fatuous statement flies in the face of you other posts in this thread and others that argues against giving money to the poor and/or demonizes them for contributing to the deficit.

You can see, gentle reader, in @wat0n posts the reason we, as a nation, can't agree to tackle the hard problems. The political discussion is so tribal that sticking to the problem is nearly impossible in the face of diversionary rhetoric. This is not about "poor people". It is, at the end of the day, only about "fairness" when it comes to one segment of our society.

No. This is about people who want to be seen as going something for the poor, while having OTHERS doing something for the poor.

If you truly want to increase taxation to help the poor as the good Christian you claim to be, then start by consenting to pay more taxes yourself and THEN demand to tax those who earn more than you do. Lead by the example.

The student debt problem is not THE issue facing the careful management of our economy. It is, however, one that is making a lot of people miserable. Not all people. If we want to discuss the poor, and I am overjoyed to do that every chance I get, then we ought to start a thread about this.

And yet those people who are being made miserable, are still not poor for the most part. The poor are even more miserable than most of the expected beneficiaries of this loan forgiveness program, so if you truly want to alleviate misery then start by prioritizing helping the poor.

Here is food for thought. The USA is the largest single economy in the world. By a good measure. And just like our rip-off medical system students in the USA pay BY FAR, higher tuition than any of the other OECD nations.

Why? In my opinion very much largely because of these stupid student loans. If we funded our state and local public colleges and universities, as most civilized nations do, and provided nearly free tuition, we would not only help our current students but make it possible for poorer students to attend college thereby breaking the cycle of poverty a little at a time. But we don't. Why? Because republicans won't have it. They much prefer to transfer the money to the hyper wealthy.

The city of Tucson is a glaring example of the excesses of money thrown at our education institutions in the US. The downtown area, not even that close to the University of Arizona is exploding with upscale student housing. Dorms, which used to cost a small amount can run up to over $1200.00 a month! Inexpensive dorms are very limited. So we have an industry that prays on students while our government subsidizes their predatory behavior by loaning students whatever it takes at high interest rates.

I guess I shouldn't care. My students seem happy enough. Most, but not all, are bound for something in medicine. Most really do not understand what is about to hit them. But one med student the other day commented to me, "I would really prefer family medicine" but I am going to apply for Gastro. At least I will be able to pay my loans. If I can match, anyway."

What a tragedy. This young woman is willing to do a job she finds second most rewarding (at best) just to pay her student loans.

If it was up to Republicans, not only there would be no subsidized loans but there would also be far less funding to universities in general. You know that, I know that, everyone knows that. Nothing would make MAGA bois happier than shutting down universities.

As I get ready to post this I see that we have another attempt at class warfare by @wat0n even after he has targeted the poor for a few dozen posts. Cynical at best.

Class warfare is wanting to give a handout to middle class college grads who voluntarily took student loans, in the context of an unsustainable government spending over the long term that will likely lead to cutting government spending and hiking taxes across the board, which will disproportionately affect those with the lowest earnings. It's class warfare by the middle class, against the poor.

It isn't me who's being cynical.