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By late
#15206277
Patrickov wrote:
For example, they must be financially restrained (cannot move or use their own money) and cannot make personal comments other than in the capacity of their public post.



The objective? Minimize their chance to abuse their power.



That is a severe overcorrection, try this:

https://www.amazon.com/Price-Inequality-Divided-Society-Endangers/dp/0393345068/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RBZFBOUITC8G&keywords=stiglitz+inequality&qid=1641566395&sprefix=stiglitz%2Caps%2C237&sr=8-1
By Patrickov
#15206278
Rancid wrote:Every interview and personal discussion I've had with these types of people has lead me to the conclusion that they are not very thoughtful people. Mostly emotional. They like to feign that they are people of principle, that they are level headed, etc. However, they are not, they are exactly NOT what they like to claim to be.


I'm just saying your statement of "not knowing what they are playing with" is technically wrong.

It does not need them to be level-headed to know what they are after. As you said, some of us (including myself) actually believe that is bound to happen because of ideals and / or emotions, but I am afraid that it takes two to tango, and I think I am the "number two" here, with the "number one" being the likes of Putin and Xi Jinping (and their minions / nations as a whole)
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By ckaihatsu
#15206359
Patrickov wrote:
I'm just saying your statement of "not knowing what they are playing with" is technically wrong.

It does not need them to be level-headed to know what they are after. As you said, some of us (including myself) actually believe that is bound to happen because of ideals and / or emotions, but I am afraid that


Patrickov wrote:
it takes two to tango, and I think I am the "number two" here, with the "number one" being the likes of Putin and Xi Jinping (and their minions / nations as a whole)



Noooooooooo, Patrickov! The West *needs* you right now -- !


x D
User avatar
By Drlee
#15206466
It would have been interesting to have this discussion. Sadly the idiots have taken over the asylum again.

American democracy has been over since 2016. It is not coming back.
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By ckaihatsu
#15206470
Drlee wrote:
It would have been interesting to have this discussion. Sadly the idiots have taken over the asylum again.

American democracy has been over since 2016. It is not coming back.



The 'democracy' thing could have happened far sooner, but it didn't:



On Hispaniola, out of timbers from the Santa Maria, which had run aground, Columbus built a fort, the first European military base in the Western Hemisphere. He called it Navidad (Christmas) and left thirty-nine crewmembers there, with instructions to find and store the gold. He took more Indian prisoners and put them aboard his two remaining ships. At one part of the island he got into a fight with Indians who refused to trade as many bows and arrows as he and his men wanted. Two were run through with swords and bled to death. Then the Nina and the Pinta set sail for the Azores and Spain. When the weather turned cold, the Indian prisoners began to die.



https://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncol1.html
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By Verv
#15206623
noemon wrote:Uh huh, so it was not Paul Manafort, Roy Kohn(chief counsel to the Joseph McCarthy during the purges) and Roger Stone that created from scratch the PAC's & SuperPACs in order to skirt the transparency rules imposed after Watergate. It was not the exact same people that got Nixon, Reagan, Bush(both), Clinton and Trump elected. It was not these exact same people that stormed the ballots in Florida to steal the election from Al Gore, it was not the exact same people that stormed the Capitol to steal the election from Biden. :roll: It was not the exact same people that established the concept of campaign manager turned lobbyist charging for access to those they campaigned to get elected. A distinction that used to exist before they legislated it out of existence. It was not the same people that ripped up the few protections American citizens had against lobbying for special interests. It was not the same people that invited foreign actors to interfere in your election system just to satisfy their own ego.

It was not the same people that campaigned for the Reform Party to deny the votes from the Republicans in order to get Clinton elected the roundabout way, and then single-handedly destroy it so that it does not pose a threat to Bush. :lol: The Reform party got 13% of the vote under Stone's campaigning which ensured Bill Clinton's victory.

But why did Roger Stone wanted to punish the GOP by getting Clinton elected? Because he was posting cuckolding ads in newspapers looking for "muscular well hung men" to fuck his wife, he was stupid enough to post both his and his wife's images. So he was shamed and removed from the GOP and engaged with the Reform party to make himself important again by showing what kind of power he can wield, .ie getting Clinton elected without even being his campaign manager.


(1) Nobody stormed any building in American history to steal the election in American history.

(2) I do not know much about the 1992 election.

I had actually heard that the reason that Bush was tanked was because he questioned the importance of Israel, which caused a great rift among conservatives.

In 1991 Bush told Israel that the U.S. would not give Israel $10 million in loan guarantees until Israel stopped building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza.
...
The Israel lobby, especially the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), was outraged.
...
Ha’aretz states: “The pro-Israel lobby was shocked by the determination of the Bush administration to postpone congressional consideration of the guarantees – which it had carefully crafted with the Israeli government and expected to sail through Congress and then the White House in early October.”

An AIPAC official had predicted that the guarantees would pass “like a knife through butter.”

Ha’aretz reports:

“In making his case, Bush pointedly reminded Israel that ‘just months ago, American men and women in uniform risked their lives to defend Israelis in the face of Iraqi Scud missiles,’ and that the Gulf War had ‘achieved the defeat of Israel’s most dangerous adversary,’ referring to Saddam Hussein’s regime.

“Moreover, he said, his administration had approved $4 billion in military aid for Israel, representing ‘nearly $1,000 for every man, woman and child,” and had already given Israel ‘millions in loan guarantees’.”
...
Bush was highly popular leading up to the fight with the Israel lobby, with a 70 percent approval rating. Eventually, AIPAC and others backed down, and Congress reluctantly went along with the President and delayed the loan guarantees for four months.

This was to prove a short-term win.

While Bush won that battle and Shamir lost his next election bid, so did Bush, and indications suggest that he lost the larger war.


Europe Reloaded article by Pam Barker.

No idea what this website is about but I recollect hearing this as an explanation of why Bush would go on to lose again.

The Roger Stone view is interesting.

So, Stone disliked the GOP because he was angry he got kicked out of the party..? That is interesting to me, but I do not think that it is that doable on this basis alone.

But I do appreciate any view which shows the American democratic system to be hollow and deeply questionable.
#15206630
noemon wrote:This is the guy you are looking for Potemkin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Stone

Stone officially left the Trump campaign on August 8, 2015. However, two associates of Stone have said he collaborated with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange during the 2016 presidential campaign to discredit Hillary Clinton. Stone and Assange have denied these claims.[26][27] Nearly three dozen search warrants were unsealed in April 2020 which revealed contacts between Stone and Assange, and that Stone orchestrated hundreds of fake Facebook accounts and bloggers to run a political influence scheme on social media.[28][29][30]

On January 25, 2019, Stone was arrested at his Fort Lauderdale, Florida, home in connection with Robert Mueller's Special Counsel investigation and charged in an indictment with witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding, and five counts of making false statements.[31][32] In November 2019, a jury convicted him on all seven felony counts.[10][33][34] He was sentenced to 40 months in prison.[35][36] On July 10, 2020, days before Stone was scheduled to report to prison, Trump commuted his sentence.[10] On August 17, 2020, he dropped the appeal of his convictions.[37] Trump pardoned Stone on December 23, 2020.
#15206632
The US voters won't vote in Trump again. He lost the last election, and then Jan. 6 happened. He's done.

Unfortunately the rest of the GOP is filled with warmongers, racists, bootlickers, pro-rich corporate whores, conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, gun worshipers, and every other scum of the earth imaginable.

We should all be rooting for Biden and co. to run a good admin even if we don't really like them.
By Doug64
#15206754
Drlee wrote:American democracy has been over since 2016. It is not coming back.

I agree that the Democrats' inability to accept that Trump won in 2016 and the resulting "whatever it takes" campaign to destroy his presidency did immense damage to the country, but I wouldn't say that it destroyed American democracy--the coming Republican victory in the House and possibly the Senate this year is indication enough of that. The 2024 presidential election may be even more interesting.
#15206760
Doug64 wrote:I agree that the Democrats' inability to accept that Trump won in 2016 and the resulting "whatever it takes" campaign to destroy his presidency did immense damage to the country, but I wouldn't say that it destroyed American democracy--the coming Republican victory in the House and possibly the Senate this year is indication enough of that. The 2024 presidential election may be even more interesting.

Do you believe Trump won the election in 2020?
By Rich
#15206769
Doug64 wrote:I agree that the Democrats' inability to accept that Trump won in 2016

Trump didn't win in 2016, he lost. When we were in the EU I never accepted the legitimacy of the Luxembourg European Parliamentary candidates. the beauty of the American Constitution is the same as the beauty of the Bible, As long as you've got half a brain and just a smidgen of creativity you can use it to justify just about anything you want.
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By Drlee
#15206797
The Republicans will very likely win the house and senate this year. They have worked very hard on voter suppression to ensure that they do.
By late
#15206804
Doug64 wrote:
I agree that the Democrats' inability to accept that Trump won in 2016 and the resulting "whatever it takes" campaign to destroy his presidency did immense damage to the country, but I wouldn't say that it destroyed American democracy--the coming Republican victory in the House and possibly the Senate this year is indication enough of that. The 2024 presidential election may be even more interesting.



That is crazy talk.

Trump's lawyers took that to court and lost big every time, but once. That one time was a procedural motion, meaning it did not speak to the issue facing the court.

REPUBLICAN election and security officials said the election was solid, that why Republicans are trying to replace them with hacks.

That's why Republicans in the swing states are trying to keep minorities from voting.

I could keep going, talking about the facts, but I get the feeling you know the real story already. You guys almost always do. You smell power, and that's the only real thing in your mind, that lust for power.
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By Drlee
#15206809
@late That's why Republicans in the swing states are trying to keep minorities from voting.


Indeed they are. Every state actually. But I think there is a bigger problem than this. They are losing minority voters. Minorities turned out to elect Biden in big numbers. For their trouble they have gotten nothing. I could make a good case for them aligning with the power party (R) where at least there is a chance their voice will be heard.
User avatar
By ckaihatsu
#15206834
Drlee wrote:
Indeed they are. Every state actually. But I think there is a bigger problem than this. They are losing minority voters. Minorities turned out to elect Biden in big numbers. For their trouble they have gotten nothing. I could make a good case for them aligning with the power party (R) where at least there is a chance their voice will be heard.



*Or* Trump takes the entire party, and the whole country, on a train ride to coup-ville -- hence the title of this thread.
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By Rancid
#15206837
Do you guys think there will be death squads roaming the streets after the Republicans run their coup successfully?
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By Rancid
#15206838
Unthinking Majority wrote:The US voters won't vote in Trump again.


Don't underestimate the power of stupid.
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