Who killed J.F.K. ? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By jimjam
#15207024
IMO JFK's murder was one of the most consequential events of the 20th century ...... if not the most consequential. Who do I think killed JFK? Not the guy ('s) who pulled the triggers. They are a dime a dozen. But who conceived, masterminded and oversaw the operation? Long story short ...... Alan Dulles.

As an aside, here is an interesting tidbit of history from L.B.J. : "One out of every four presidents has died in office," LBJ told Clair Booth Luce when she asked him why he settled for the #2 spot on the ticket. "I'm a gamblin man darlin' ."
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By jimjam
#15210130
1.) It took 15 minutes to get a description of the assassin (Oswald). It's still not yet known how they found this description so quickly as It should have been impossible.

2.) No interrogation records of any kind were ever kept for anyone arrested at Dealey Plaza, Including Oswald’s after enduring approximately 13 hours of it.

3.) The pictures of Oswald holding a gun are clear fakes.

4.) For some reason JFK's body was actually removed from Dallas before any autopsy could be performed.

5.) Upon leaving, JFK's corpse was wrapped in a sheet inside an ornamental bronze casket. It then later arrived at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Washington D.C. in a body bag inside a plain casket.

6.) The autopsy photographs of JFK's wounds allegedly differed quite radically from the actual descriptions of his wounds given from the doctors at Parkland Hospital.

7.) A whole tray of evidence, including what was left of the president's brain, remains missing from the National Archives still.

Also, the condition of the famous "the magic bullet" suggests it was planted as it doesn't seem to show much signs of being fired at all.

8.) Many films that were made by the surroundings citizens were soon confiscated never to be returned again. (That's not to say all of them were)

9.) Many witnesses have died under extremely suspicious and 'conspiracy-worthy' circumstances.

11.) Both the FBI and the CIA seemingly concealed important evidence from the Warren Commission.

12.) Critical data unearthed by the Warren Commission in 1964 and the Assassination Committee in 1978 is still classified secret.
#15210134
I believe it was the Russians. Go to the reading room at the National Archives - NARA. There's more Russian names in the records than you can shake a stick at. Oswald himself defected to the Soviet Union and Belorussia and lived there for a couple of years before the assassination. He also tried to renounce his U.S. citizenship. Oswald also tried to get a visa at the Soviet embassy in Mexico city.

I think people in high places had a fair idea of what happened, but didn't want it start WW3 over it.

By the way, a ton of witnesses died in unexplainable "accidents" after JFK's assassination. Way beyond reasonable odds.
#15210312
XogGyux wrote:I thought it was a settled matter that it was Ted Cruz's father. :D


I agree, many smart people are saying it.

Although in all seriousness the most interesting theory I've ever heard for JFK's assassination is that he wasn't the target. The target was actually Texas Governor John Connally. It's been a while since I read it so I'm vague on the details, but the idea is that if you kill the governor sitting next to the president it throws people off the trail because they would assume larger actors were at work. So, if you actually nailed Connally instead of Kennedy law enforcement would assume it was a missed shot and not investigate penny ante Texas politics bullshit.

The only problem with that plan is that if you're shooting around the president you might actually hit him.

Not saying I believe it, or even care that much, but I found it to be an interesting take.
By Rich
#15210321
SpecialOlympian wrote:Although in all seriousness the most interesting theory I've ever heard for JFK's assassination is that he wasn't the target. The target was actually Texas Governor John Connally..

Ah you beat me to it, I've had a thread planned for a little while now about Lee Harvey Oswald and two other men, which was going to make that point.
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By Rancid
#15210360
I'm going to say it was a Mob hit. The mob was very unhappy with what happened in Cuba and JFK's unwillingness to squash the communist regime. The Mob lost lots of money when Cuba became Communist.
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By Potemkin
#15210363
Rancid wrote:I'm going to say it was a Mob hit. The mob was very unhappy with what happened in Cuba and JFK's unwillingness to squash the communist regime. The Mob lost lots of money when Cuba became Communist.

Two names: Santo Trafficante Jr and Carlos Marcello.

In a sense, @SpecialOlympian is right - the real target was not JFK but his brother Robert Kennedy. If you want to kill a snake, you chop off its head, not its tail.
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By jimjam
#15211790
On 22nd November, 1963, President Kennedy was assassinated. Rumours began to circulate that Sam Giancana and other gang bosses such as Santos Trafficante, Carlos Marcello, and Johnny Roselli, were involved in the crime.

In 1975 Senator Frank Church established his Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities . Giancana was now ordered to appear before Church's committee. However, before he could appear, on 19th June, 1975, Sam Giancana was murdered in his own home. He had a massive wound in the back of the head. He had also been shot six times in a circle around the mouth.

The following year the Select Committee on Intelligence Activities decided to recall John "Handsome Johnnie" Roselli. Soon afterwards Fred Black called him and warned him that Santos Trafficante had taken out a contract on his life and that the "Cubans were after him".

In July 1976, Roselli left home in Florida to play golf. He never arrived at the golf course and ten days later his body was found floating in an oil drum in Miami's Dumfoundling Bay. He had been garroted. Roselli's legs had been sawed off and squashed into the drum with the rest of his body.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations managed to obtain the records of an FBI wire tap on Santos Trafficante. On the tape Trafficante was heard to say "now only two people know who killed Kennedy and they aren't talking."
Last edited by jimjam on 12 Feb 2022 04:08, edited 1 time in total.
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By Fasces
#15211792
jimjam wrote:In 1975 Senator Frank Church established his Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities . Giancana was now ordered to appear before Church's committee. However, before he could appear, on 19th June, 1975, Sam Giancana was murdered in his own home. He had a massive wound in the back of the head. He had also been shot six times in a circle around the mouth.


So, it was suicide, then.
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By Potemkin
#15211800
Fasces wrote:So, it was suicide, then.

In a sense, it was. Giancana had been thrown out of the Chicago Outfit, of which he was the supposed ‘boss’ at the time, because of his reckless publicity-seeking behaviour. He fled to Mexico, but was extradited by the Feds to stand trial for one of his many, many crimes. Before he was due to appear in court, he got whacked by person or persons unknown. It was almost certainly someone he knew and trusted, since he was cooking a meal for two people at the time and had turned his back to his assassin. So yeah, suicide.
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By Crantag
#15211804
The US Government killed JFK.

I know that there is the Mafia theory. It could be. But if it was done by the Mafia it was at the behest of the US Government. And the US Government covered the tracks.

There's a lot of knowledge gaps and we'll probably never know clearly, but I think Kennedy was getting uppity and was taken out.

The killing of Robbie is circumstantial evidence.
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By Potemkin
#15211805
Crantag wrote:The US Government killed JFK.

I know that there is the Mafia theory. It could be. But if it was done by the Mafia it was at the behest of the US Government. And the US Government covered the tracks.

There's a lot of knowledge gaps and we'll probably never know clearly, but I think Kennedy was getting uppity and was taken out.

The killing of Robbie is circumstantial evidence.

There was a nexus - Robert Kennedy’s aggressive investigation of the Mafia, the loss of Cuba to the Soviet Bloc, JFK’s threats against the CIA, and his supposed ‘weakness’ against Communism. The CIA were using the Mafia against Castro, Robert Kennedy was using the State Department against the Mafia, and JFK was threatening to “break up the CIA and scatter it to the winds”. Something had to give….
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By Crantag
#15211812
Potemkin wrote:There was a nexus - Robert Kennedy’s aggressive investigation of the Mafia, the loss of Cuba to the Soviet Bloc, JFK’s threats against the CIA, and his supposed ‘weakness’ against Communism. The CIA were using the Mafia against Castro, Robert Kennedy was using the State Department against the Mafia, and JFK was threatening to “break up the CIA and scatter it to the winds”. Something had to give….

Pretty sure that was when the so-called 'great American experiment in Democracy (TM)' got two bullets lodged in its heart. It was probably already on the ground and reeling at the time, but one must admit, it is tough to servive two gunshots to the heart.
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By Potemkin
#15211820
Crantag wrote:Pretty sure that was when the so-called 'great American experiment in Democracy (TM)' got two bullets lodged in its heart. It was probably already on the ground and reeling at the time, but one must admit, it is tough to servive two gunshots to the heart.

Indeed. The basic problem was allowing organised crime to become too powerful, and then climbing into bed with it during the Cold War. This was a toxic mix, and I believe that it killed JFK.
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By jimjam
#15213168
Abraham Zapruder: Adrian Zapruder is best known for the Zapruder film, a homemade movie which captured the entire assassination of president John F. Kennedy. He filmed the events while standing on the grassy knoll and allegedly told the secret service that a shot had come from around the area behind him.

James Tague: Tague was standing near the triple underpass and was in a great position to see the grassy knoll as well as hear the shots incoming. He also claims there was definitely a shot from behind the grassy knoll area. When counsel suggested he might have simply heard, he replied, "there was no echo."

Jean Hill: Hill was standing on the south side of Elm Street and had an excellent view of the limousine and the grassy knoll in the background. "The shots," she said less than an hour after the shooting, "came from the hill--it was just east of the underpass."

Charles Brehm: Brehm was standing on the south side of Elm Street and was behind and to the left of the limousine when the fatal head shot occurred. Brehm saw a piece of Kennedy's skull blown backward and to the left by the fatal head shot. He told newsmen on November 22 that "the shots came from in front or beside the President."

William Newman: Newman and his wife were standing at the base of the grassy knoll and was therefore between the knoll and the limousine during the shooting. Both said the shots came from behind them.

Mary Woodward: She was to the left front of the grassy knoll. She said the shots came "from behind us and a little to the right," which would have been the knoll.

Maggie Brown: She, too, was standing to the left front of the knoll. The shots, she said, came from behind and to her right, i.e., from the knoll.

Jean Newman: Newman was standing between the Stemmons Freeway sign on Elm Street and the TSBD. She said, "The first impression I had was that the shots came from my right." The grassy knoll was on her right.

Aurelia Lorenzo: Like Brown and Woodward, she was standing to the left front of the knoll. She said shots came from a point to her right rear.

John Chism: Chism and his wife were standing beneath a freeway sign on Elm Street, with the grassy knoll behind him. He said that when the shots rang out, "I looked behind me." His wife, too, believed the shots came from behind them.

Bill Lovelady: Lovelady was standing on the front steps of the Texas School Book Depository Building (TSBD). He said sounds of shots came from "right there around that concrete little deal on that knoll." He told the FBI that he did not "at any time believe the shots had come from the Texas School Book Depository."

Sam Holland: Holland was standing on the parapet of the railway bridge that overlooked Elm Street. He said he was positive shots came from behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll.

James L. Simmons: Simmons was on the triple underpass and thus was well positioned to hear the shots. Simmons said the sounds of the shots came "from the left and in front of us, toward the wooden fence" on the knoll.

Richard C. Dodd: Dodd was also standing on the triple underpass. Dodd said he heard shots come from the grassy knoll.

Lee Bowers: During the shooting, said Bowers, his attention was drawn to the area near the fence where he had seen the two men standing. Bowers reported that there was a "flash of light or smoke or something" that caused him to look at that spot.

O. V. Campbell: A TSBD employee. He said, "I heard shots being fired from a point which I thought was near the railroad tracks located over the viaduct on Elm Street."

Ron Boone: Boone, a deputy sheriff, searched the area behind the fence on the knoll a minute or two after the shooting because "several witnesses" had told him shots had been fired from that location.

Seymour Weitzman: Weitzman, another deputy sheriff, ran up the knoll moments after the shots rang out. A bystander told him that "a firecracker or shot had come from the other side of the fence" on the knoll.

Kenny O'Donnell: A close friend and aide of Kennedy, O'Donnell was seated in the follow-up car. He told former Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill during a private dinner that he was sure he had heard "two shots that came from behind the fence" on the knoll. When O'Neill noted that O'Donnell had not said this in his FBI statement, O'Donnell replied that he had in fact told this to the interviewing agents but that they reacted by saying he must have been imagining things. "So," O'Donnell continued, "I testified the way they wanted me to" (O'Neill 211). How many other witnesses were persuaded or pressured into "testifying the way they wanted me to"?

Dave Powers: Another Kennedy aide who was seated in the follow- up car. During the abovementioned dinner with Tip O'Neill, Powers confirmed O'Donnell's account of shots from the knoll.

Jesse Curry: Curry was the chief of the Dallas Police Department. Curry stated in his famous book on the assassination that he believed one of the shots came from in front of the limousine.
#15213261
Potemkin wrote:There was a nexus - Robert Kennedy’s aggressive investigation of the Mafia, the loss of Cuba to the Soviet Bloc, JFK’s threats against the CIA, and his supposed ‘weakness’ against Communism. The CIA were using the Mafia against Castro, Robert Kennedy was using the State Department against the Mafia, and JFK was threatening to “break up the CIA and scatter it to the winds”. Something had to give….


The center of the nexus:

Image

Kennedy was naive in believing he could take on Dulles without reinforcing his personal security.
#15213266
quetzalcoatl wrote:The center of the nexus:

Image

Kennedy was naive in believing he could take on Dulles without reinforcing his personal security.

Indeed. And it wasn’t just Dulles he was taking on. And JFK’s naivete went deep. For example, when he removed Ngo Dinh Diem from power by giving his nod to the coup, he never imagined in his wildest nightmares that Diem would be killed. When he was told the news, he was so overcome with emotion that he got up and left the room. In reality, any schoolboy could have told him that once the coup got underway then Diem’s chances of living out the day were slim to none. And when Ho Chi Minh was informed, he stated that he never thought the Americans would be so stupid as to remove Diem from power. From that day on, Minh believed that he could finally win this war. No, JFK’s political and personal naivete ran deep, very deep….

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