Why does America Suck at Everything? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15233535
Well folks, America has issues. We all know it does, so, why don't US citizens do something about changing what is wrong in this video?

My theory is simple. They don't change anything because they are too busy trying to survive the system, to get up and work hard on changing the system.

Apathy is going to kill your society. If you don't read about what is going on, you don't get involved for change, you don't know a damn thing about government, politics and economics and you allow some stupid political brainwashing the general public campaign to paralyze you into INACTION.

Other societies have problems galore. But they are there protesting, screaming, pressuring and getting organized.

People get the government they deserve is what I have heard from my Aunt. I told her, but, if they don't like what they are getting how are they going to change it?

Get active. Even if you believe all the stupid lies the Republicans and the Democrat sellouts feed you....get involved. Solve the issues. They are not magically going to go away on their own.

This public service announcement has ended.

#15233563
@Scamp
Did you hear the reasons why they are trying to get to the USA? Their home nations are not livable. Why? Most of the nations the caravan people are from are Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador. Most of those nations' economies were destroyed by the need the US had for bananas, and for controlling that region so they could have the Panama canal zone and make sure they secure US profits and military interests. They destroy the economy with bad interventions. No one can make a living and live in peace in their own countries. Due to the US gov't need to dominate the entire world.

The US better wake up and smell the coffee. Most of the world can't walk to the border. But the Mexicans and the Central Americans can. Kamala Harris wanted to do a summit of the Americas to help out the issue of poverty, lack of jobs, crime, and instability in Central America. But the US government wanted to play the dictator again and exclude some of the nations because they don't approve of their politics. It is time to be mature, stop playing games in these nations, and discuss solutions.

Do you want every nation with poverty and crime to make a beeline to the USA? Then make sure you have solutions to propose to the nations in close proximity to your part of the world enough jobs, living wages, and great criminal justice systems to PREVENT the damn caravan in the first place.

It is not my problem you say? It is. Look at them? Where are they headed? They are going to America. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, and they will arrive at the Golden shore...or whatever...but the USA can't even handle its own poor people in Appalachia and Chicago ghettos and yet the propaganda the USA government does with Hollywood myths of everyone lives in Beverly Hills 90210 area code is having this kind of effect.

Scamp if you want these people to go away? 1. Learn to speak Spanish. 2. Get on a loudspeaker. 3. Tell them that if they go to the US unless they got a Ph.D. in computer science and speak English and are super-wealthy and willing to invest in the USA open a business and hire Americans and have 1 million dollars in their bank accounts? They are not going to be welcome. 4. Talk to the presidents of the countries these people are fleeing from and ask them tough questions like "Why the hell are these people leaving your country?" Most of them are going to tell you, "part of the reason is because every time we try to implement a policy that favors us over US corporations and US interests in the region? You guys say no way blow jay. You bully us and keep us from progressing. You then reply, "That is not true." They say, here is the stats and the historical documents. Do something about it. You then say, "I don't believe it." 5. Put your money where your mouth is and if you don't do it where they live....you will wind up spending more when they get to the USA. With detention centers and paying interpreters like me $75 dollars an hour from a federal fund program to communicate legally with the caravan folks and immigration lawyers and border patrol and judges and backlogged asylum seeker applications. MONEY. SPENT. Processing this group. Why? Because you thought interfering in other nations is a cheap way to control the profits from afar. For bananas, coffee, land, access, money laundering, drug routes, and etc. all the stuff you Americans need so badly that it is worth impoverishing other nations and holding them back economically. It is cooperate like brothers? Or die in constant wars like enemies. It is your choice.
#15233568
@Scamp do you see a parallel here? The people conquered by Rome sought refuge in the Roman Empire. They were mistreated and they got resentful. That is the problem there.

Rome wanted it all. But not willing to cope with the injustices in their own Imperial rule. Internal rot.

Attilah the Hun, and Visigoths, and many other battles. Most of it has to do with a bunch of disgruntled ex soldiers and so on...veterans homeless after serving their country. In these endless wars.

Colossal lands, overextensions, hard to manage administrations of wars from afar. It is problematic. Don't interfere in nations and think you can manage the problems from afar forever. Too difficult. You will get the caravans. Eternal wars, and large armies, eating into budgets of the state...slave labor. No steady supply of slaves...oh let me cry for the ones who love slave labor...and low-wage Honduran underwear factories and bananas....Bad leaders and incompetent Emperors. Aristocracy is greedy and controls them. Profit-taking priority over state affairs? Do you see a theme here?

#15233570
Scamp wrote:Yea America sucks so bad here is a pic of the illegals from south of the border trying to get in.
Image


Here they are. What are they saying and believing?



They are solidly middle-class people. With good jobs. The Mexicans got to cope. They live side-by-side. Why?

American Dream is what? The Mexicans are not happy with a bunch of Hondurans and so on, for the same reasons the Right in the USA is saying the same shit. But the problem is desperation of poverty and crime problems because again, the governments don't have that. Why? Can you live on $1 dollar an hour? That is what they pay over there Scamp.

It is not your problem? It is Mexico's problem and the USA's. But if you want to exclude governments at the negotiation table? You are never going to solve the problem. Scampy, talk to the woman with the child in these videos eh? Tell her, "The USA is not what you think it is. There is no place for you. You are an illiterate, uneducated, poor, and broke woman who can't speak English. I don't want to pay for your kid's education for free, or give you a job at Walmart and have to pay you food stamps and worry about you going for subsidized housing and free health clinics. I hate you people. Just disappear. I love the rich, the white and the English speaking. America the land of freedom!

:lol:

#15233593
Tainari88 wrote:Well folks, America has issues. We all know it does, so, why don't US citizens do something about changing what is wrong in this video?

What America seems to suck at the most is honoring the guiding philosophy of its own founders. Like by letting other countries be governed by democratically elected leaders who prioritize the interests of their own people over the narrow financial interests of rich Americans and the corporations they own. Like by not imprisoning and assassinating foreign journalists who report the facts about American military aggression in other countries. Like by not maintaining military bases in dozens of foreign countries whose people do not want them there. Like by not locking up millions of its own citizens in steel cages for pursuing their own happiness in ways that violate no one else's rights. You know: by not being evil.
#15233595
Truth To Power wrote:What America seems to suck at the most is honoring the guiding philosophy of its own founders. Like by letting other countries be governed by democratically elected leaders who prioritize the interests of their own people over the narrow financial interests of rich Americans and the corporations they own. Like by not imprisoning and assassinating foreign journalists who report the facts about American military aggression in other countries. Like by not maintaining military bases in dozens of foreign countries whose people do not want them there. Like by not locking up millions of its own citizens in steel cages for pursuing their own happiness in ways that violate no one else's rights. You know: by not being evil.


Well TTP, what are the Americans going to do about it? Unlike a lot of people who post here? I do talk to the Central American refugees in Mexico. This state is very close to the Guatemalan border. All of them got to cross through there to get to Mexico and keep going. What happens to them? They believe that the USA is going to be just and let them in and it is because they are suffering financially mostly. Many say it is terrorism from gangs or drug cartels or rapes or something. But the majority it is about lack of money. Period. Years of high unemployment, and no money to pay school supplies, adequate food, electricity bills and being constantly on the edge of not being able to buy a life saving drug in Central America. They say, [To hell with this. I am going to the USA.] But they go to the embassy in their country and I read the requirements to get a legitimate visa there. Even a tourist visa in Mexico for going to Disney World requires a lot of documentation and proving you are not going to stay.

You got to be a homeowner or business owner that can prove it is successful business or the home is worth over $125k US dollars, etc. Most homes in Central America are worth $10k or less. A lot of details. So they get rejected for a visa. What next? They can stay in Mexico. But the Mexicans are there and in the big border towns they don't know anyone and they are offered jobs that are low paying there as well. They won't be able to rent an apartment that is affordable because they left Honduras, or Guatemala, etc with very little funds or they are saving what they have for paying off the lawyers at the border.

So how to get in there? Hoping someone lets them get in via a asylee application. That is very hard. You got to prove that you are a political dissident or under duress by a political party or something. Or you have been beaten and battered by your spouse and you reported it with official documents and he is not in jail and will kill you. Pay for a translator to translate your court documents, etc. It becomes hard.

The Mexicans are angry. They live on the border and are poor and make shit for wages. In the Yucatan minimum wage is about $25 mx pesos an hour. A little over a dollar. You work a full 8 hours you are lucky after taxes of getting $8 dollars. A coca cola is about $10 pesos or fifty cents. If you are making one dollar an hour? half an hour's wages went to buying a small coca-cola drink. Forget about rent, electricity, water, cell phone, aspirin for headaches, public transportation costs, etc. No way it is a living wage. What to do then TTP?

Come to America. Everyone is rich and happy. You got resources. Everyone is comfortable. Is it true? For Latin American poor people? Yes or no?

Some do well that is true. But it is usually the professional educated Latin Americans with great educations, great tech skills, polished English and parents that have money to pay for their studies and to settle in....is it the caravan people? No.

What is the solution for them TTP?
#15233622
Tainari88 wrote:What is the solution for them TTP?

Do you mean what will solve the problem, or what can they do to solve the problem? It is a hard truth that in their countries, engaging in political activism for justice is dangerous, often fatal. And they have no political influence in the USA. Ideally, American voters would stop voting for evil people over good people, but that is a bit utopian while they are so ignorant. So I'm with Jefferson:
"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion." Of course, the privileged will do all they can to make sure the people are too busy trying to survive to think about how and why survival has been made so difficult for them, so easy for others.
#15233638
Igor Antunov wrote:Given it doesn't actually produce anything, that's just accounting trickery.

They invent like almost everything.

It takes intelligence and skill to invent an iPhone. It doesn't take much to screw the parts together.

One takes an engineer, the other takes a person with a screwdriver, which is why they make a buck an hour.
#15233645
America has a freedom fetish. It's been eroding the country since at least the Reagan era. Sometimes freedom is great (civil liberties, human rights etc). Other times it's not (lax gun laws, unlimited political donations, for-profit education and healthcare where the best access goes to the highest bidder). Sometimes laws and regulations are a good thing.

Treating freedom ideologically and not taking it on a case-by-case basis is not wise.

"Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice, without constraint." - Alexander Hamilton
#15233647
Truth To Power wrote:Do you mean what will solve the problem, or what can they do to solve the problem? It is a hard truth that in their countries, engaging in political activism for justice is dangerous, often fatal. And they have no political influence in the USA. Ideally, American voters would stop voting for evil people over good people, but that is a bit utopian while they are so ignorant. So I'm with Jefferson:
"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion." Of course, the privileged will do all they can to make sure the people are too busy trying to survive to think about how and why survival has been made so difficult for them, so easy for others.


I think the solution is to stabilize the nations they fled. They are small nations and there are a lot of great programs throughout the world that have proven programs that stabilize communities in crisis. It needs political will and money. That is it. Stabilize Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Guatemala. Stabilize them and do rural and urban programs that work. Once you do that? The caravans stop.

But, if you refuse to deal with it and instead support Chiquita Banana and some horrible incompetent only do what the USA wants in these governments? No solution.

As a side comment? Best people in the world in terms of heart, and niceness, and family-oriented warmth and friendship I have experienced? Who went to me when I was devastated at my mother's funeral and gave me hope for the future? The Central Americans. Guatemala especially and El Salvador. For me, those beautiful people will always be in my heart!
#15233650
Tainari88 wrote:I think the solution is to stabilize the nations they fled. They are small nations and there are a lot of great programs throughout the world that have proven programs that stabilize communities in crisis. It needs political will and money. That is it. Stabilize Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Guatemala. Stabilize them and do rural and urban programs that work. Once you do that? The caravans stop.

But, if you refuse to deal with it and instead support Chiquita Banana and some horrible incompetent only do what the USA wants in these governments? No solution.


How do you stabilize them though? Jail or kill all of the drug dealers, now and forever? Easier said than done.

As a side comment? Best people in the world in terms of heart, and niceness, and family-oriented warmth and friendship I have experienced? Who went to me when I was devastated at my mother's funeral and gave me hope for the future? The Central Americans. Guatemala especially and El Salvador. For me, those beautiful people will always be in my heart!

I like to hear these types of stories. I'm glad to hear this.
#15233651
Unthinking Majority wrote:They invent like almost everything.

It takes intelligence and skill to invent an iPhone. It doesn't take much to screw the parts together.

One takes an engineer, the other takes a person with a screwdriver, which is why they make a buck an hour.

UM, the US really improved enormously its innovation power and its productive value by investment in huge amounts into public education from K-12 and then in free university studies. My parents never paid a penny in undergrad or grad school back when they studied in the 1960s and 1970s. In both Puerto Rico and the USA. That all changed in the 1980s with Reagan cutting funding for publicly funded programs and rolling back low-interest Perkins loans and Pell grants and replacing them with high-interest private bank loans with high-interest rates. It was on purpose. The banks wanted to make money by lending money to students. The road to middle-class status for many millions of American students Unthinking.

Latin America does well with free universities. Where it has lagged behind is open and free from K-12 in all states and provinces (especially rural towns in all 20 Latin American nations). The ones in the caravans have the lowest attendance rates of public schools. And funding problems. Investing in education is a sure-fire way to make sure your country is competitive. But so are higher wages and making sure you can send your son or daughter off to get a well-paying job within their own countries.

All that is improving. Mexico recently really invested in lots of new high schools. But it has to do a lot more investment to see a real turnaround in the next 40 years. Once they do that? Enormous innovations. Right now they got an all-women-owned electric car company and factory with all women workers in Mexico. The company is called Zacua. It is fascinating. Mexican architecture, engineering, design, and scientific and medical achievements are really outstanding.

Zacua:
#15233680
Unthinking Majority wrote:How do you stabilize them though? Jail or kill all of the drug dealers, now and forever? Easier said than done.


I like to hear these types of stories. I'm glad to hear this.


Unthinking, do you think that a lot of organization all over the world have not researched the topic of world poverty, crime and criminal justice and education and everything else that affects a society over time? They have. There are great solutions proven to change the entire circumstances. But? They are related to political will of the nation and the willingness of that government to implement it and to have funds and invest in that. If you don't have that? You don't have the change.

I am going to give you an example. If you google the question 'what are the nations in the world with the highest illiteracy rates?" They will throw you the top 10 or 20 nations where more than half or close to half or more of the people in that nation from children to adults are illiterate. Then they tell you the whys of the illiteracy. When you study the reasons? It is always the same thing. Governments who are corrupt, don't care about education, don't invest in education for the poor or the ones who can't pay, and either they are recovering from a war, a coup, or some natural disaster, some horrible religion that prohibits women from studying, or some such bullshit. it is all the same. Lack of political will and lack of resources in terms of money. There are several nations in the African continent that actually have the political will and want a great public school system but they have zero money. Nothing in the treasury. They can't pay teachers a penny for teaching. So the teachers don't teach. You can't try to work in a profession and be unpaid for years. How does your family eat and pay the bills. The solution is for the wealthier countries to foot the bill. Till the nation that is broke can get funds on their own. It is not expensive at all. But there is no will for it in the wealthy nations because they only help other countries based on what the banksters, or the corporations want done in that nation?

The reality is that if you help in worthwhile programs that are proven effective and can do great things the returns are enormous. Education is one of those concepts where the return for the dollar invested is enormous savings down the line in terms of avoiding corruption, crime, etc.

The issue is ignorant people who can't read or write are much easier to control and to exploit. And if the entire economy of a nation with high illiteracy rates is for the workers to be oxen and do physical labor for low wages so the profits can go to high tech countries with educated people who never care about educating the lower classes in supposedly insultingly called 'shithole' nations? The problems never go away.

If the entire globe is educated literate and innovative? Do you know how many brains are going to be working on PROBLEMS that are extremely difficult to tackle? For every educated man, woman and child you produce as a nation? You increase your productive value by a lot, you get problems solved by the truckload. You get people paid higher wages, which means a good tax structure, you lower corruption enormously, you get crime down to manageable levels, and you get economic growth in a sustainable way that makes everyone want to STAY PUT.

But you got politics and racism, elitist shit, zero-sum game mentalities, competition mentalities that if someone pulls ahead of the USA or EU or something it means the USA or the EU lose out or lose power. it is the furthest thing from the truth. You gain fewer headaches because you don't have illegal immigration, and you have more money to spend on solving very expensive problems like climate change, world debt crisis, and ill people and emergency health care due to people chronically not going when it is solvable and waiting for a crisis to go and so on....it is about PREVENTION. And prevention is way more cost-effective in the long haul in all aspects of human society than emergency triage in economics, agriculture, social life, education, crime and punishment, and law and order. It all becomes very efficient and cost-effective.

Is treating people like inferiors and shitholes and being disrespectful ever going to work in international diplomacy? Yes or no? You tell me Unthinking? The answer is no. Then why don't the governments of the USA, the EU and the wealthier economies in the world treat the ones that are the poorest and the ones with the worse problems on planet Earth with the utmost respect, caring and dedication?

Do you see how arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand? Humility and knowledge eradicate enormous problems in human relationships. Implement that? And you won't have the caravans. You won't suck at health care in the USA, or at maternity leave and working with balance and not burning out.

The idea of they are less than us and don't deserve respect? It doesn't work among Americans or among ANY GROUP.

But I am called a leftist, a pie-in-the-sky idealist. Impossible to accomplish. Never gonna happen. What is never gonna happen is continuing to do the same failed shit policies over centuries and seeing bad outcomes like wars and waste and corruption and dictatorships and torture and bloodbath from all that greed and selfishness and disrespect for the poor and the suffering....and thinking they don't have to change at all. That is the definition of insanity for me. Right there.

Keep doing the same shit and getting bad results but refusing to change. Insane. Punto y se acabo!
#15233702
Unthinking Majority wrote:They invent like almost everything.

It takes intelligence and skill to invent an iPhone. It doesn't take much to screw the parts together.

One takes an engineer, the other takes a person with a screwdriver, which is why they make a buck an hour.


Yeah but you got them around the wrong way.

Image

Image

Not to mention 90% of US inventors are foreigners and migrants. Intrinsically and long term America has nothing. It's just a transient meme, it has no staying power. It won't exist in 1,000 years.

Us is still coasting along on British financial system it inherited, british technology it stole and german engineers it pilfered after ww2. Well all that shit has run out.
Last edited by Igor Antunov on 16 Jun 2022 16:25, edited 2 times in total.
#15233703
wat0n wrote:America doesn't "suck at everything". It's been a continuous democracy since its inception almost 250 years ago, a feat few countries have achieved.

Yeah, well, one reason so few have achieved it is that their democratically elected governments have been forcibly overthrown by the USA, because they put the interests of their own people above the narrow financial interests of rich Americans and the corporations they own.

And I will thank you to remember it.
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