[Robert Urbanek]

Even if voters put Trumpsters in the dumpsters in November, our form of government may still be challenged by the accelerating effects of climate change. Unprecedented flooding and drought, and other extreme climate events will likely cause increasing damage to infrastructure, the availability of drinking water and disruptions to the supply chain.

Expect runs on stores to stock up on bottled water and other necessities of life, followed by looting, and eventually the imposition of martial law. Increased loss of housing due to flooding, fires and loss of basic services in the community will stretch government resources, including police services, which will be augmented by the National Guard.

Eventually, essential services will be provided on a “triage” basis, and nonessential sectors of the population, such as homeless drug addicts and their dealers, will “disappear.”

[ckaihatsu]

Even if voters put Trumpsters in the dumpsters in November, our form of government may still be challenged by the accelerating effects of climate change. Unprecedented flooding and drought, and other extreme climate events will likely cause increasing damage to infrastructure, the availability of drinking water and disruptions to the supply chain.

Expect runs on stores to stock up on bottled water and other necessities of life, followed by looting, and eventually the imposition of martial law. Increased loss of housing due to flooding, fires and loss of basic services in the community will stretch government resources, including police services, which will be augmented by the National Guard.

Eventually, essential services will be provided on a “triage” basis, and nonessential sectors of the population, such as homeless drug addicts and their dealers, will “disappear.”

Nixonian daydreaming.

• Kent State/Cambodia Invasion Protest, Washington, D.C.: After the Kent State shootings, on May 4 [1970], 100,000 anti-war demonstrators converged on Washington, D.C. to protest the shooting of the students in Ohio and the Nixon administration's incursion into Cambodia. Even though the demonstration was quickly put together, protesters were still able to bring out thousands to march in the Capital. It was an almost spontaneous response to the events of the previous week. Police ringed the White House with buses to block the demonstrators from getting too close to the executive mansion. Early in the morning before the march, Nixon met with protesters at the Lincoln Memorial but nothing was resolved and the protest went on as planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositio ... ietnam_War

[Scamp]

Biden has been Pres for quite some time now.
To blame Trump is insane.
But so is Liberalism.

[ckaihatsu]

Biden has been Pres for quite some time now.
To blame Trump is insane.
But so is Liberalism.

To their credit -- though I won't get in the habit of doing this -- the Democrats *did* oppose Trump's initial tax-cuts-for-the-rich bill soon after he got into office:

Opposition

Democrats opposed the legislation, viewing it as a giveaway to corporations and high earners at the expense of middle class communities.[171] Every House Democrat voted against the bill when it came to the House floor; they were joined by 13 Republicans who voted against it.[91]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Cuts_ ... Opposition

[Robert Urbanek]

Nixonian daydreaming.

I don't understand the analogy you seem to be drawing between the Vietnam War and climate change. We are at a point of no return where no protests or even policy changes are going to stop the ongoing climate disasters that will challenge the stability of governments throughout the world.

[ckaihatsu]

I don't understand the analogy you seem to be drawing between the Vietnam War and climate change. We are at a point of no return where no protests or even policy changes are going to stop the ongoing climate disasters that will challenge the stability of governments throughout the world.

For both cases the *political* argument here is 'martial law', which is *troubling*, especially right on the heels of an attempted right-wing / fascist *coup*.

How has *Pakistan* been doing, since that's *ongoing* right now -- is it 'bedlam'?


Rich nations owe reparations to countries facing climate disaster, says Pakistan minister

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... e-disaster


Pakistan floods hit 33 million people in worst disaster in a decade, minister says

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/asia/pak ... index.html

[Unthinking Majority]

Rich nations owe reparations to countries facing climate disaster, says Pakistan minister

Yeah let's give money to the country that harboured Bin Laden, and which benefited greatly from the global industry and technology that produced all the GHG.

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah let's give money to the country that harboured Bin Laden, and which benefited greatly from the global industry and technology that produced all the GHG.

You want to sadistically punish an *entire population*, for a *second time* around:

Missing people

A study of the total population inflows and outflows in the districts of Punjab, using the data provided by the 1931 and 1951 Census has led to an estimate of 1.3 million missing Muslims who left western India but did not reach Pakistan.[108] The corresponding number of missing Hindus/Sikhs along the western border is estimated to be approximately 0.8 million.[153] This puts the total of missing people, due to partition-related migration along the Punjab border, to around 2.2 million.[153] Another study of the demographic consequences of partition in the Punjab region using the 1931, 1941 and 1951 censuses concluded that between 2.3 and 3.2 million people went missing in the Punjab.[154]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition ... ing_people

[Robert Urbanek]

You want to sadistically punish an *entire population*, for a *second time* around:

Pakistan embraces Islamofascism.

A teacher at an all-girls religious school in Pakistan has been allegedly killed by a female colleague and two students who accused her of blasphemy, police say – the latest murder in the country related to the hugely sensitive issue.

Few issues in Pakistan are as galvanising as blasphemy, and even the slightest suggestion of an insult to Islam can supercharge protests and incite lynchings.

Those people have the government they deserve.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/30/pakistan-school-teacher-killed-for-alleged-blasphemy-police

[Unthinking Majority]

You want to sadistically punish an *entire population*, for a *second time* around:

Not giving them my money is punishment? How about I just leave them alone. Or when people they harbour bomb my country, my country bombs them.

[ckaihatsu]

Pakistan embraces Islamofascism.

A teacher at an all-girls religious school in Pakistan has been allegedly killed by a female colleague and two students who accused her of blasphemy, police say – the latest murder in the country related to the hugely sensitive issue.

Few issues in Pakistan are as galvanising as blasphemy, and even the slightest suggestion of an insult to Islam can supercharge protests and incite lynchings.

Those people have the government they deserve.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/30/pakistan-school-teacher-killed-for-alleged-blasphemy-police

Not giving them my money is punishment? How about I just leave them alone. Or when people they harbour bomb my country, my country bombs them.

Sorry to the *both* of you, but I can't simply 'forget-away' the Western-imperialist-violence *origins* of the country.

You're both indulging in nationalist moralizing, as you're wont to do -- and, at this international level, it's basically population-blaming. It's *not helpful*, in other words. It's as if you happened across a particular tragedy not far from the road and then uttered disparaging words about some petty detail around it.

There's still the matter of how pollution-indulgent the Western energy corporations have been despite *themselves* knowing since the '80s about the detrimental effect of their industries on the natural environment.

Now we've been seeing the real-world global *effects* -- erratic weather and seasons worldwide -- including in Pakistan, now, and the prevailing consensus between you two is 'too late to the table'.

[ckaihatsu]

I'll add that it's *especially* fortunate that Trump isn't still president / dictator, because at least now you're both *not* stormtroopers for him.

[ckaihatsu]

'Monsoon on Steroids'： Investigating Pakistan's unprecedented floods - BBC Newsnight

[Robert Urbanek]

Pakistan consumes 10,199,674 Tons (short tons, "st") of Coal per year as of the year 2016.

[ckaihatsu]

the country that harboured Bin Laden

Here's geopolitically:

Alliance with United States

Prior to the September 11 attacks in 2001, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were key supporters of the Taliban in Afghanistan, as part of their "strategic depth" objective vis-a-vis India, Iran, and Russia.[citation needed]

After 9/11, Pakistan, led by General Pervez Musharraf, reversed course as they were under pressure from the United States and joined the "War on Terror" as a U.S. ally. Having failed to convince the Taliban to hand over bin Laden and other members of Al Qaeda, Pakistan provided the U.S. a number of military airports and bases for its attack on Afghanistan, along with other logistical support.[citation needed] Since 2001, Pakistan has arrested over five hundred Al-Qaeda members and handed them over to the United States; senior U.S. officers have been lavish in their praise of Pakistani efforts in public while expressing their concern that not enough was being done in private. However, General Musharraf was strongly supported by the Bush administration.[citation needed]

In return for their support, Pakistan had sanctions lifted and has received about $10 billion in U.S. aid since 2001, primarily military. In June 2004, President George W. Bush designated Pakistan as a major non-NATO ally,[55] making it eligible, among other things, to purchase advanced American military technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan% ... ted_States

[Unthinking Majority]

Sorry to the *both* of you, but I can't simply 'forget-away' the Western-imperialist-violence *origins* of the country.

You're both indulging in nationalist moralizing, as you're wont to do -- and, at this international level, it's basically population-blaming. It's *not helpful*, in other words. It's as if you happened across a particular tragedy not far from the road and then uttered disparaging words about some petty detail around it.

There's still the matter of how pollution-indulgent the Western energy corporations have been despite *themselves* knowing since the '80s about the detrimental effect of their industries on the natural environment.

Now we've been seeing the real-world global *effects* -- erratic weather and seasons worldwide -- including in Pakistan, now, and the prevailing consensus between you two is 'too late to the table'.

You're population blaming westerners for Pakistan's problems, and Punjabi's problems. I'm not population-blaming Pakastani's, just their government and the extremists they harboured.

[ckaihatsu]

You're population blaming westerners

No, I'm not.

If *you* can limit yourself to 'just their government'...

for Pakistan's problems, and Punjabi's problems. I'm not population-blaming Pakastani's, just their government and the extremists they harboured.

...Then *I* can indict *Western* governments throughout history without population-blaming Western *people* themselves.


History, Macro-Micro -- simplified

Spoiler: show

[Robert Urbanek]

Terrorist groups operating in Pakistan, according to the CIA:

Haqqani Network; Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami; Harakat ul-Mujahidin; Hizbul Mujahideen; Indian Mujahedeen; Islamic State of Iraq and ash-Sham-Khorasan (ISIS-K); Islamic State of ash-Sham – India; Islamic State of ash-Sham – Pakistan; Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan; Jaish-e-Mohammed; Jaysh al Adl (Jundallah); Lashkar i Jhangvi; Lashkar-e Tayyiba; Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP); al-Qa’ida; al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/pakistan/#terrorism

[ckaihatsu]

Terrorist groups operating in Pakistan, according to the CIA:

Haqqani Network; Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami; Harakat ul-Mujahidin; Hizbul Mujahideen; Indian Mujahedeen; Islamic State of Iraq and ash-Sham-Khorasan (ISIS-K); Islamic State of ash-Sham – India; Islamic State of ash-Sham – Pakistan; Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan; Jaish-e-Mohammed; Jaysh al Adl (Jundallah); Lashkar i Jhangvi; Lashkar-e Tayyiba; Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP); al-Qa’ida; al-Qa’ida in the Indian Subcontinent (AQIS)

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/pakistan/#terrorism

No argument. No contention.

Go tell it to *Turkey*, though.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_i ... t_for_ISIL