Rising rent costs force some Canadians to take on additional part-time jobs - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15296027
The following article is about declining standards of living in Canada.
A decade ago I predicted that mass immigration to Canada was going to reduce wage levels for Canadian workers and eventually lead to many Canadians struggling with decreased standards of living. But of course some people are still going to argue about the causes of this. (The article itself doesn't touch on the issue of immigration or population growth)

She's a grad student juggling 3 jobs. Canada's cost of living may force her to move elsewhere

Shramana Sarkar, a 24-year-old aspiring geologist, moved to St. John's for her bachelor's degree in 2018. Back then, she only needed one part-time job to make rent for the month, at a going rate of $350 for a room in a house near MUN's campus.
But times have changed.
"Slowly, over the years, I've had to take on more jobs," she says. "I've seen the shift where from one job, now I have three."

Precarious workers often don't know how many hours they'll get in a week or whether they'll be employed next month.
The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives suspects as many as one in five Canadian workers have precarious jobs. And even those working part time by choice have seen their wages stagnate relative to the cost of consumer goods, according to Statistics Canada.

"I think what's very sad is that the insecurity impacts most vulnerable groups a lot more than the average person. And that's why we're seeing the explosion in precarious work, the explosion in people having to pick up a second or a third job," said Walid Hejazi, an economist at the Rotman School of Management in Toronto.
Hejazi wrote an entire book about Canada's sliding prosperity compared with other developed countries. The nation's GDP per capita is on a steady decline relative to other economies, and that manifests in people scrabbling for extra work, second jobs and side gigs.

"Past generations of young Canadians entering the workforce could look forward to favourable tailwinds lifting real incomes over their working lives," wrote David Williams, a policy expert with the Business Council of British Columbia.
"That's no longer the case … young people entering the workforce today will not feel much of a tailwind at all. Rather, they face a long period of stagnating average real incomes that will last most of their working lives."

Today, Sarkar's rent has doubled. Groceries are 20 per cent more expensive than they were two years ago. But her wages haven't kept up. And none of her three jobs -- her teaching position, or either of her two barista gigs -- offers enough hours to cover all the basics.

Her schedule isn't overflowing by choice. If rent and inflation remain this high, she says, she'll have little choice but to study somewhere more affordable.

"The thought of having to do so many things just sort of paralyzes me," she says.

"I think many people are finding right now it's really hard to even just get out of bed each day and keep going," said Julia Smith, a labour historian at the University of Manitoba.
"Because you also have this feeling … of like, things aren't going to get better. There's a sense of despair, I think. It's one thing to say, 'I'm going to work really hard while I'm in grad school for a couple years, but then I'm going to get that job.' But when you have that sense of, 'I'm just going to work really hard forever and I might not even be able to own a home of my own, or ever have a pension,' that's pretty demoralizing."

She's a grad student juggling 3 jobs. Canada's cost of living may force her to move elsewhere (in Part 3 of The Grind), by Malone Mullin, CBC News - Newfoundland, Nov 20, 2023


related thread: Canada to have 50 million people, half of them immigrant families, by 2041


For some of you, maybe we need to have a talk about basic economics. When there is a shortage of something, prices usually go up. When there is an excess of something, it pushes prices down.
Adding a large number of people into the country is likely to have an effect on rents, housing prices, and wage levels (especially on the lower end).


"As Europe's largest economy teeters near recession, economists warn that high rents will feed inflation and reduce household consumption." "With fewer new housing stock coming on the market, rents are rising unabated, further eroding households' purchasing power."​
Highrise housing projects in Germany going bankrupt
#15296036
Puffer Fish wrote:A decade ago I predicted that mass immigration to Canada was going to reduce wage levels for Canadian workers and eventually lead to many Canadians struggling with decreased standards of living. But of course some people are still going to argue about the causes of this. (The article itself doesn't touch on the issue of immigration or population growth)

140 years ago, Henry George demonstrated conclusively that cet. par., the Law of Rent implies that any increase in the labor force -- immigration, births exceeding deaths, women joining the workforce, delayed retirement, increased participation rate, etc. -- would have the effect of increasing land rents and reducing wages.
She's a grad student juggling 3 jobs. Canada's cost of living may force her to move elsewhere

Everything and everyone must be sacrificed on the altar of landowner greed, privilege, and parasitism, which reliably destroy every civilization that panders to them.
#15296048
Pants-of-dog wrote:Provide any evidence at all that Canadian housing prices are increasing because of immigration.

I don't think you understand how "proof" works in economics.

There's very little way to be able to prove anything definitively. Society and the economy cannot be scaled down to do convenient controlled experiments on.

The best we have is to try to be able to use logic, common sense, and math, and a lot of thinking, to try to come up with some sort of understanding of how big things in the economy work. Oftentimes those theories are not even entirely correct, but can explain part of what's happening.

Can you "prove" that, say, lowering the minimum wage level does not help the economy? No you can't.
Can you "prove" that immigration is not the primary factor responsible for this? I didn't think so.
#15296049
Truth To Power wrote:140 years ago, Henry George demonstrated conclusively that cet. par., the Law of Rent implies that any increase in the labor force -- immigration, births exceeding deaths, women joining the workforce, delayed retirement, increased participation rate, etc. -- would have the effect of increasing land rents and reducing wages.

Everything and everyone must be sacrificed on the altar of landowner greed, privilege, and parasitism, which reliably destroy every civilization that panders to them.

What you seem to be saying is that the capitalist system and free markets don't seem to function very well when the population growth outstrips labour opportunity.

So you seem to be advocating "bringing down the capitalist system" in order to accommodate more people from other regions of the world moving to your country.

Stop and tell me if any of that so far is not true.


Tell me, how are you going to eliminate "landowner greed"? Even if you eliminated it, these high rents and prices are only being fueled by shortages, and so you are still not going to eliminate those shortages by doing that, are you?

And how are we even going to decide which lucky applicants get that housing? A lottery system? Government deciding which citizens are more deserving?
Maybe a government public auction, so the government becomes the beneficiary of those high rents, diverting profits away from the landlords?
Last edited by Puffer Fish on 21 Nov 2023 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
#15296050
Puffer Fish wrote:I don't think you understand how "proof" works in economics.


Yes, you are often confused by my posts.

I do not expect you to provide a regression analysis (commonly used in economics to infer causation) which is why I asked for any evidence at all.

There's very little way to be able to prove anything definitively. Society and the economy cannot be scaled down to do convenient controlled experiments on.


…except with things like computer modelling.

The best we have is to try to be able to use logic, common sense, and math, and a lot of thinking, to try to come up with some sort of understanding of how big things in the economy work. Oftentimes those theories are not even entirely correct, but can explain part of what's happening.


Then you should do that instead of just jumping to conclusions based on anti-immigrant ideology.

Can you "prove" that, say, lowering the minimum wage level does not help the economy? No you can't.


No, but I can provide evidence. https://www.nber.org/system/files/worki ... w12663.pdf

Do you know the difference between evidence and proof?

Akso, which did I ask for?

Can you "prove" that immigration is not the primary factor responsible for this? I didn't think so.


Yes.

Canada has consistently had high levels of immigration. The immigration levels for the past few decades have not seen significantly increases.

Since that is the case, the significant increase in housing prices cannot be tied to immigration levels.
#15296051
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, you are often confused by my posts.

I do not expect you to provide a regression analysis (commonly used in economics to infer causation) which is why I asked for any evidence at all.

It's a fallacy for you to believe that if I am unable to prove something, that means you should just assume it is not true, or is unlikely to be correct.

You seem to just not want to see anything that you don't want to see.

Pants-of-dog wrote:…except with things like computer modelling.

You can use some basic common sense and model it in your head. The concept I'm trying to point out to you isn't really that hard.

Let's see. Too many people trying to get not enough housing. And the prices have gone up.
Last edited by Puffer Fish on 21 Nov 2023 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
#15296052
Puffer Fish wrote:It's a fallacy for you to believe that if I am unable to prove something, that means you should just assume it is not true.

You seem to just not want to see anything that you don't want to see.


I never assumed that immigration is not the cause of high housing prices because you failed to provide any evidence.

I assumed your claim was wrong because:

“Canada has consistently had high levels of immigration. The immigration levels for the past few decades have not seen significantly increases.

Since that is the case, the significant increase in housing prices cannot be tied to immigration levels.”

You ignored this.
#15296053
Pants-of-dog wrote:I never assumed that immigration is not the cause of high housing prices because you failed to provide any evidence.

In other words you did not even consider the possibility, and refuse to assume anything, because I have been unable to provide you with "proof".

Pants-of-dog wrote:“Canada has consistently had high levels of immigration. The immigration levels for the past few decades have not seen significantly increases.

That's kind of a meaningless statement. Over what periods of time, precisely?

Do I have to waste time showing you how immigration levels have picked up in recent times?
Or how immigration to settle on the open space of the prairies is different from immigration now?


Here's a graph of immigration levels to Canada since 1976.
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqj ... /-1x-1.png

Immigration Propels Canada’s Population Growth to Fresh Annual Record, Bloomberg (News), Randy Thanthong-Knight, Dec 21, 2022

"Canada's population growth hit its fastest pace in five decades thanks to record immigration. Over the past 12 months, the number of international migrants to Canada totaled 822,866 - by far the largest influx in historical data to the mid-1970s, Statistics Canada reported"

Seems like the numbers have slowly grown beginning from the late 70s, then picked up at a faster pace after 1999, and massively increased after 2016. Then a drop off during the Covid pandemic and then a huge spike in 2022.
Last edited by Puffer Fish on 21 Nov 2023 23:45, edited 6 times in total.
#15296055
Puffer Fish wrote:In other words you did not even consider the possibility, and refuse to assume anything, because I have been unable to provide you with "proof".


That's kind of a meaningless statement. Over what periods of time, precisely?

Do I have to waste time showing you how immigration levels have picked up in recent times?
Or how immigration to settle on the open space of the prairies is different from immigration now?


Yes, show me how immigration levels have picked up in recent times.

And if you think the prairies were just open space that were easy to settle, you probably do not have the requisite knowledge to debate Canada immigration history.
#15296079
Puffer Fish wrote:What you seem to be saying is that the capitalist system and free markets

No, I am stating the fact that free markets are logically impossible under capitalism because capitalism requires private ownership of land; private ownership of land forces everyone to subsidize landowners; and forced subsidies by definition cannot exist in a free market.
don't seem to function very well when the population growth outstrips labour opportunity.

No. Population growth comes with increased labor opportunity. The Law of Rent just means that workers have to pay landowners that much more for permission to access the increased opportunity, which the landowners had no part in creating.
So you seem to be advocating "bringing down the capitalist system" in order to accommodate more people from other regions of the world moving to your country.

No, I am stating the fact that the capitalist system is unjust, evil, and destructive whether there is any immigration or not, because it requires private ownership of land. And just to be clear, socialism is even worse.
Stop and tell me if any of that so far is not true.

See above.
Tell me, how are you going to eliminate "landowner greed"?

Same way slave owner greed was eliminated: remove the legal ownership of others' rights to liberty.
Even if you eliminated it, these high rents and prices are only being fueled by shortages, and so you are still not going to eliminate those shortages by doing that, are you?

That is correct. The land rent will still be higher and wages lower because of increased labor supply, same as if women join the labor force -- which they have, duh -- or there is a higher birth rate than death rate. The point is that paying the rent to the community that creates the value rather than giving it to private landowners for doing nothing relieves people of the burden of taxation of their earnings and consumption, and restoring their liberty rights to use land means they don't have to pay as much land rent for access to opportunity as they would have had to pay private landowners. Also, removing the exorbitant subsidy to idle landowning means that landholders would have to either use the land productively enough to pay the community for what they are taking from the community, or yield it to someone who would. That would ensure an ample supply of good, inexpensive housing.
And how are we even going to decide which lucky applicants get that housing?

Free market bidding for use of locations. The money would just be paid to the community that creates the locations' value rather than to parasitic private landowners for contributing nothing.
A lottery system? Government deciding which citizens are more deserving?

The free market (note: a market in which people's rights to liberty are owned and bought and sold by other people, which is what happens in a private land market, is not a free market; it is a slave market).
Maybe a government public auction, so the government becomes the beneficiary of those high rents, diverting profits away from the landlords?

That is correct. As the unimproved rental value of a location is created by government and the community, not by its private owner, its value is rightly paid to the community, not to the private owner.

I'm kind of getting the impression here that you hate justice. Is that right?
#15296148
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, show me how immigration levels have picked up in recent times.

He already did:

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqj ... /-1x-1.png

Despite the plunge during COVID (now more than recovered), immigration levels have clearly been much higher since 2015 than up to 2015.

You just refused to know the facts, as usual.
#15296158
Truth To Power wrote:He already did:

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqj ... /-1x-1.png

Despite the plunge during COVID (now more than recovered), immigration levels have clearly been much higher since 2015 than up to 2015.

You just refused to know the facts, as usual.


Your link or image or whatever does not work.
#15296186
Truth To Power wrote:It works fine for me. Try this:

https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqj ... /-1x-1.png

The first link you gave was duff, @Truth To Power - only part of the url was hyperlinked. The second link works fine.
#15296191
Potemkin wrote:The first link you gave was duff, @Truth To Power - only part of the url was hyperlinked. The second link works fine.

I don't know how that happened (I don't know anything about the forum posting software, I just do my best to use it), but I have had similar glitches here before. Something in the forum software just decides to delete part of a link or cut off part of the hyperlink.
#15296194
Truth To Power wrote:I don't know how that happened (I don't know anything about the forum posting software, I just do my best to use it), but I have had similar glitches here before. Something in the forum software just decides to delete part of a link or cut off part of the hyperlink.

I think it’s safe to say that the systems on PoFo can be quirky. To put it politely. ;)
#15296205
@Puffer Fish

As demand rises, prices rise but so does the incentive to build more housing to meet increased demand. But that only works so long as government and existing home owners and local government does not overly interfere to prevent home builders and developers from building in the first place.

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