Why You'll Never Achieve the American Dream - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15315897
What Second Thought talks about are the goals of the International Socialists in the World. It is what I back.

Right now there is a misinformation campaign happening and there are expected attempts to undermine legitimate election results in democratic nations in Latin America. Please, think about what is best for all the working people in the 198 nations throughout the world.

You can't expect a fascist state or a far right state who hates democracy and only cares about the plutocracy to do it for you.
#15316445
Tainari88 wrote:The American Dream is not Achievable folks. What is your opinion?



I guess that depends on what you think the american dream is'. If it is just about overcoming poverty and making yourself some money...yeah you can do that. If you have rudimentary intelligence and discipline it is not difficult. But actually...that was always the case. The only places in history were that might be unusually difficult would be, ironically, in communist countries.

What you won't get in the current usa, however, is a reason to live. There is nothing to inspire people and nothing great to achieve. So people would rather just spend their time doing drugs or playing video games. That is what is lacking today.
#15316446
FiveofSwords wrote:I guess that depends on what you think the american dream is'. If it is just about overcoming poverty and making yourself some money...yeah you can do that. If you have rudimentary intelligence and discipline it is not difficult. But actually...that was always the case. The only places in history were that might be unusually difficult would be, ironically, in communist countries.

What you won't get in the current usa, however, is a reason to live. There is nothing to inspire people and nothing great to achieve. So people would rather just spend their time doing drugs or playing video games. That is what is lacking today.

In other words, there’s more to life than consumption and keeping up with the Joneses. But that’s all the ‘American Dream’ ever was.
#15316450
FiveofSwords wrote:I guess that depends on what you think the american dream is'. If it is just about overcoming poverty and making yourself some money...yeah you can do that. If you have rudimentary intelligence and discipline it is not difficult. But actually...that was always the case. The only places in history where that might be unusually difficult would be, ironically, in communist countries.

What you won't get in the current usa, however, is a reason to live. There is nothing to inspire people and nothing great to achieve. So people would rather just spend their time doing drugs or playing video games. That is what is lacking today.


The reason to live often has to do with the community and how strong it is. If you feel you are a part of a community that cares about you deeply and that your contributions are important. When you feel you can make a difference in that society in a positive way--you can achieve a sense of doing something beyond yourself.

It is about values and how you live your values in life Five.

You will find the right people to serve if you have great values. That is the key. Serve others beyond yourself. If society promotes materialism, greed, and consumption as the overriding value and you can't achieve that? And on your way to getting your material dream you wind up not putting much time or energy into serving a greater good? It all feels futile. It always will.

The reality is that struggle and serving others in society while being able to create and manifest your own dreams also? It is the key to being a realized human being. Use your talents to benefit society and serve society. Serve others always.

How to do that? Choose something you care about and love and serve organizations that make that happen in your own society.

It can't be fear-based. It has to be love-based and caring-based.

Also, too many people neglect self-care. Without staying healthy with a good diet, exercise, time for relaxation, and doing activities you have always loved to do? it is easy to fall into despondency, lack of hope, and depressive states.

Good habits go a very long way in feeling good. Sleep your eight to ten hours a night. Go to bed early, wake up early, make your bed, clean your room. Sounds like some old mom's advice but it works.

Keep good grooming habits. Eat your meals at the kitchen table with other members of your family or household members. If at work sit and eat and chat nicely with your co-workers. Ask neutral questions about them and be nice.

Spend time meditating or in silence and in reflection. Read books of interest. Watch a good movie once a week at the movie theater and do not cook that night only.

Go for long walks.

Live near a body of water and go there regularly, admire nature, trees and so on.

Remember the wonders of being with loved ones in the past, and the present. Do you remember all the great things they said to you or did with you and how that made you feel? Remember that. Always.

Use your thoughts to make plans and goals become reality.

Set a goal to visit a city or town or place you always wanted to visit but never could do that before?

If you learn something new once a day you feel like you are getting somewhere too. Learn something new every single day if you can.

Love life. That is your number one goal. Death is coming for sure. What are you going to take with you when Death arrives? Lament the time you spent on Earth with lost opportunities or rejoice in all the good times and good things you will take with you when you leave eh? :)
#15316453
Potemkin wrote:In other words, there’s more to life than consumption and keeping up with the Joneses. But that’s all the ‘American Dream’ ever was.


It was the dream of millions of people who came from poverty and hard circumstances and they thought endless consumption was the key to happiness.

In the past, many other societies also thought consumption and being materialistic were the key to success but only for the upper classes. The American Dream for the working classes was seen as a fake thing and if you were born into poverty you died in poverty. All this socially mobile stuff was never achievable in the old rigid systems of Europe for example. That is where the 'bring us your huddled, tired, etc comes from:

“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.


They do not give you the details of what they do with the tired huddled masses yearning to breathe free though Potemkin. That is the issue. :D
#15316455
Tainari88 wrote:It was the dream of millions of people who came from poverty and hard circumstances and they thought endless consumption was the key to happiness.

In the past, many other societies also thought consumption and being materialistic were the key to success but only for the upper classes. The American Dream for the working classes was seen as a fake thing and if you were born into poverty you died in poverty. All this socially mobile stuff was never achievable in the old rigid systems of Europe for example. That is where the 'bring us your huddled, tired, etc comes from:



They do not give you the details of what they do with the tired huddled masses yearning to breathe free though Potemkin. That is the issue. :D

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that if only they were rich, then they would automatically be happy. Then they win the lottery, and realise to their horror that they are still miserable. Or they spend their lives at the office to make as much money as possible, never seeing their families, and then realise on their deathbed that their own wife and children are strangers to them. The American Dream was founded on that delusional and wishful thinking. Living a meaningful and happy life is about more than piling up money in a bank account, or driving a bigger SUV than your neighbour.
#15316459
Potemkin wrote:A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that if only they were rich, then they would automatically be happy. Then they win the lottery, and realise to their horror that they are still miserable. Or they spend their lives at the office to make as much money as possible, never seeing their families, and then realise on their deathbed that their own wife and children are strangers to them. The American Dream was founded on that delusional and wishful thinking. Living a meaningful and happy life is about more than piling up money in a bank account, or driving a bigger SUV than your neighbour.


Yes it is. Love is the biggest thing of all. You really do not need to do much with love. You already have the meaning you seek in life. The issue is how do you make that last a lifetime in a world full of pitfalls, lack of permanency and change eh?
#15316467
Potemkin wrote:In other words, there’s more to life than consumption and keeping up with the Joneses. But that’s all the ‘American Dream’ ever was.

Well my distant ancestors first arrived basically to kick the Spanish out of North America. For glory and to expand the realm of the British empire. Not long after that, other ancestors arrived to basically escape Oliver Cromwell because they were on the losing side of the English Civil War. I also had some ancestors who were part of rather kooky fringe religious cults and had some utopian vision of forming some better society in the New World. And not much different from that, I had ancestors who embraced science and technology amd believed the development of that would solve many of the issues with the human condition.

Generally there was some purpose to people's life...and if you made money on the way then whatever.

But in the current usa there isn't anything left of those old idealistic goals. Today, It's basically all about making money or hating white people. And people don't even have some noble reason to hate white people...it is generally quite shallow and really about taking white people's money
#15316485
FiveofSwords wrote:Well my distant ancestors first arrived basically to kick the Spanish out of North America. For glory and to expand the realm of the British empire. Not long after that, other ancestors arrived to basically escape Oliver Cromwell because they were on the losing side of the English Civil War. I also had some ancestors who were part of rather kooky fringe religious cults and had some utopian vision of forming some better society in the New World. And not much different from that, I had ancestors who embraced science and technology amd believed the development of that would solve many of the issues with the human condition.

Generally there was some purpose to people's life...and if you made money on the way then whatever.

But in the current usa there isn't anything left of those old idealistic goals. Today, It's basically all about making money or hating white people. And people don't even have some noble reason to hate white people...it is generally quite shallow and really about taking white people's money


Five, the truth is what Eleanor Arroway said to Drummond (from the Film Contact 1997) when he was going off to get in the time machine to visit another dimension. 'I always thought the world is what we make of it.' Thoughts are powerful things. Failure is a good thing in many instances because human beings learn a lot from failures and bad experiences. Your attitudes in life shape your destiny in this world. Also if you received a lot of love when you were a child. Love, attention, acceptance, and having a great relationship with your family. If things go wrong in many people's lives it is usually something there in their past that remained undone, unfulfilled, and or ignored and not worked on. To get out of that you need to go through a fiery pain and get through it and beyond it. It is about emotional courage as well. People think emotional courage is innate to a person o rnot. It really is not. Emotional courage usually is found by being LOVED a lot. By someone. Without it? It is hard to remain unaffected by all that can go wrong in life and making better choices. We are exactly what we make of the world. If all you see is hatred, resentment and sorrow and so on? Where is your energy for change going to be? Nowhere.

You have to be able to get the energy for being able to want to change your life. If you only focus on what you do not have? Or what others have taken from you? And you fail to envision a better future and go after it with concrete action? You will never be able to realize it. Thoughts are very very powerful. Probably the most powerful engine of human society in the world.
#15316518
Potemkin wrote:A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that if only they were rich, then they would automatically be happy. Then they win the lottery, and realise to their horror that they are still miserable. Or they spend their lives at the office to make as much money as possible, never seeing their families, and then realise on their deathbed that their own wife and children are strangers to them. The American Dream was founded on that delusional and wishful thinking. Living a meaningful and happy life is about more than piling up money in a bank account, or driving a bigger SUV than your neighbour.


Yea, it's interesting how generation after generation of humanity still can't learn the basic lesson that money cannot buy happiness.

At least it can buy you a hell of a lot of coke?
#15316525
Rancid wrote:Yea, it's interesting how generation after generation of humanity still can't learn the basic lesson that money cannot buy happiness.

At least it can buy you a hell of a lot of coke?

If you believe that happiness comes in little plastic bags, then you can certainly buy happiness. By the gramme. :)
#15316528
Potemkin wrote:If you believe that happiness comes in little plastic bags, then you can certainly buy happiness. By the gramme. :)


Did you see that movie Potemkin called Casino? About the early mafia in Las Vegas and the people who would inhabit the casinos all the time trying to live off the gambling industry and who loved money. The culture of money. The wife of the main character was played by Sharon Stone. She wound up just snorting coke and doing heroin. She died broke and she was a liability to even her drug dealer and wound up dead. Money is like that when it becomes your main reason for living in life.

None of those people think their deeds catch up to them. But they all get caught up to. If money is all you care about.

#15316534
Tainari88 wrote:Did you see that movie Potemkin called Casino? About the early mafia in Las Vegas and the people who would inhabit the casinos all the time trying to live off the gambling industry and who loved money. The culture of money. The wife of the main character was played by Sharon Stone. She wound up just snorting coke and doing heroin. She died broke and she was a liability to even her drug dealer and wound up dead. Money is like that when it becomes your main reason for living in life.

None of those people think their deeds catch up to them. But they all get caught up to. If money is all you care about.


Yes, I saw that movie, querida. A cautionary tale, if ever there was one.

I think Johnny Cash put it best…

#15316541
That American Dream stuff is about false values. What you live in terms of values is exactly what you get out of life.

The love you give is exactly what you take with you when you are done with the time you have here.

I want to take a lot of love with me @Potemkin.

I taught an English class yesterday. She loved it. It is interesting. If you teach someone something they value it is a great achievement eh?

The American Dream should be about a New World with better values than what people were running away from in the Old World and the shit sandwich eh?

Te adoro. Siempre.

T.
#15316602
Tainari88 wrote:That American Dream stuff is about false values. What you live in terms of values is exactly what you get out of life.

The love you give is exactly what you take with you when you are done with the time you have here.

I want to take a lot of love with me @Potemkin.

I taught an English class yesterday. She loved it. It is interesting. If you teach someone something they value it is a great achievement eh?

The American Dream should be about a New World with better values than what people were running away from in the Old World and the shit sandwich eh?

Te adoro. Siempre.

T.

Lol...ehat about the 'old world' do you think you are escaping? What is the 'old world' for you anyway? When white people were in power?

You aren't getting rid of power, you are just putting different people in power. And they will not behave any differently than anyone does when they are in power. They just won't be as effective at it because they don't have any practice.
#15316610
FiveofSwords wrote:Lol...ehat about the 'old world' do you think you are escaping? What is the 'old world' for you anyway? When white people were in power?

You aren't getting rid of power, you are just putting different people in power. And they will not behave any differently than anyone does when they are in power. They just won't be as effective at it because they don't have any practice.


Humanity is not static Five. It in flux all the time. Which means that societies evolve. Just like all living things have to evolve. It is a process that never stops. Human societies learn through trial and error, and they learn from each other. What do you think other societies do? Never notice what the guy next door is doing that is different than what they are doing? And what is working for them or not working for them and why?

That is the core of politics right there.

Differences in history, approach, style and ways of thought or philosophies are innate to all living things and beings. Humans are not the exception and never have been.

Look at your hands. When they are in a relaxed state the fingers curl. They are not straight. They do not have pads like a cat's paw. They are specific to who we were thousands upon thousands of years ago. Tree dwelling mammals. Getting ready to hang off a tree branch on short notice. That is why our hands still curl in the most relaxed state. You were attached to your mother through your umbilical cord. Look at your belly button? You depended on her breathing to breathe, to drink. to defecate in the womb, all was through the mother. And your belly button tells that story for you.

None of us are disconnected from our ancestry or our past, but we are building upon what is going on outside and inside that is in flux. That is our destiny.

Once we learn that hating and resenting and constant war and trying to control that which has given us our very existence is HUBRIS of the worst kind from the Greek Pantheon of gods? Then we gain some wisdom and start restructuring societies to serve the needs of the society before serving the needs of capital. Socialism is that. Serve society first. Not capital. If you serve capital first? It means that making money and power relationships between owners and non-owners is the endall of life. And it is not. Without society that is a human society with a human culture? There is no real wealth. We as human give it value according to what we agree upon socially and politically. It is what the superstructure is about.
#15316635
Tainari88 wrote:Humanity is not static Five. It in flux all the time. Which means that societies evolve. Just like all living things have to evolve. It is a process that never stops. Human societies learn through trial and error, and they learn from each other. What do you think other societies do? Never notice what the guy next door is doing that is different than what they are doing? And what is working for them or not working for them and why?

That is the core of politics right there.

Differences in history, approach, style and ways of thought or philosophies are innate to all living things and beings. Humans are not the exception and never have been.

Look at your hands. When they are in a relaxed state the fingers curl. They are not straight. They do not have pads like a cat's paw. They are specific to who we were thousands upon thousands of years ago. Tree dwelling mammals. Getting ready to hang off a tree branch on short notice. That is why our hands still curl in the most relaxed state. You were attached to your mother through your umbilical cord. Look at your belly button? You depended on her breathing to breathe, to drink. to defecate in the womb, all was through the mother. And your belly button tells that story for you.

None of us are disconnected from our ancestry or our past, but we are building upon what is going on outside and inside that is in flux. That is our destiny.

Once we learn that hating and resenting and constant war and trying to control that which has given us our very existence is HUBRIS of the worst kind from the Greek Pantheon of gods? Then we gain some wisdom and start restructuring societies to serve the needs of the society before serving the needs of capital. Socialism is that. Serve society first. Not capital. If you serve capital first? It means that making money and power relationships between owners and non-owners is the endall of life. And it is not. Without society that is a human society with a human culture? There is no real wealth. We as human give it value according to what we agree upon socially and politically. It is what the superstructure is about.

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