[Unthinking Majority]

Watch this graph: https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1072763227337977861

Look at how China's GDP has risen since capitalist post-Soviet reforms of the early 90's. Look at the absolutely astonishing increases in GDP since around 2005. It is still risen quickly. Given it's 1.3 billion population, it's almost certain to surpass the US as the global economic leader eventually.

When China really starts getting wealthy enough to move beyond dependence on selling its labour to the West, and those workers get enough money to buy the items they're making themselves and have a powerful domestic economy that will explode, China will be unstoppable as a global power.

Given how cruel, corrupt, and totalitarian the Chinese government is, long-term we should all fear China taking America's place as the global hegemonic superpower. If we think the US empire is evil, imagine China. China has barely begun to flex its military might, imagine when that happens. A population base of 1.3 billion people from which to build a modern army of soldiers would be unstoppable save a nuclear exchange.

[Potemkin]

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords.

[Beren]

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords.

[Sivad]

When China really starts getting wealthy enough to move beyond dependence on selling its labour to the West, and those workers get enough money to buy the items they're making themselves and have a powerful domestic economy that will explode, China will be unstoppable as a global power.

Given how cruel, corrupt, and totalitarian the Chinese government is, long-term we should all fear China taking America's place as the global hegemonic superpower.

With that kind of wealth, as economic inequality goes down the rising middle class will start demanding more liberty, transparency, rule of law, and democracy. The Chinese state won't be able to maintain its repressive gulagism. My guess is that as the West becomes less democratic and more managerial, China will be liberalizing, and they'll both converge at some point in the second half of this century on a form of liberal fascism.

[Sivad]

If the populist movements in the West do manage to roll back the managerial state and gain meaningful democratic and social reforms I think that will force the Chinese regime to accelerate its liberalization.

[Rancid]

If we think the US empire is evil, imagine China.

This has generally been my stance on pofo. I get interpreted as some sort of China hater as a result. However, I think you are right. The world should be very concerned about China's growth.... well, it's not really their growth, but the fact that they are so aggressive/arrogant. We will see a hegemony that will be a million times worse than anything US and European colonization has done.

[Sivad]

a hegemony that will be a million times worse than anything US and European colonization has done.

Damn.

[SolarCross]

When people make power comparisons between the US and China it is pretty helpful not to forget the diplomatic power aspect. Yes China beats the US hollow for manpower, they have like 5x as many people, and that matters but China kind of stands alone, unliked and unlikable, whereas the US despite the relentless propaganda hate they have to weather is pretty well liked even still. The US doesn't stand alone: CANZUK, Japan, South Korea, Israel, Nato in general quite have their back....

[Godstud]

I really like most Chinese food, so I think this is a good thing.

Also... Treble in fear? Are they particularly musical?

[Unthinking Majority]

Sorry I fixed the OP and the broken link with the graph: https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1072763227337977861

[Godstud]

awwww.

I was just messing with you.

I'm less fearful of China, than I am with a USA under Trump, so maybe that's the problem.

[Potemkin]

I really like most Chinese food, so I think this is a good thing.

Also... Treble in fear? Are they particularly musical?

Yeah, what's up with traditional Chinese music? More to the point, why have they persisted with that cacophany for more than two thousand years? Are they masochists or something?

[Godstud]

I actually like some of their traditional music....

[Rancid]

When people make power comparisons between the US and China it is pretty helpful not to forget the diplomatic power aspect. Yes China beats the US hollow for manpower, they have like 5x as many people, and that matters but China kind of stands alone, unliked and unlikable, whereas the US despite the relentless propaganda hate they have to weather is pretty well liked even still. The US doesn't stand alone: CANZUK, Japan, South Korea, Israel, Nato in general quite have their back....

Very true, which is why in other threads I've also speculated that China's biggest strength (what you just mentioned) is also their biggest weakness. They continually want to isolate themselves, and the rest of the world is uniting further (despite trump and brexit, this is just noise in my opinion). I also speculate that technological advance in China will dramatically slow down for the same reasons, and thus they might lose dominant position.

awwww.

I was just messing with you.

I'm less fearful of China, than I am with a USA under Trump, so maybe that's the problem.

This worry of Trump is overblown. He is just noise, and he will pass. The institutions of the US are still intact and not dismantled as much as leftist want to claim. I feel like people that believe this have no real concept of how the US government works. More over, the danger with China is that Xi jingping is a defacto dictator at this point. At his will, he could do whatever the fuck he wants. Trump, cannot because the US institutions are still strong.

Again, I don't get this fear of Trump. I think it's just stuff leftist say to feel good about themselves or something. I don't know. It's not coming from a place of rational thinking.

Let's put it this way, if Trump were so powerful, that border wall would have been built, and there would be no shutdown

I'm saying this as a person that didn't vote for Trump and doesn't like him.

Yeah, what's up with traditional Chinese music? More to the point, why have they persisted with that cacophany for more than two thousand years? Are they masochists or something?

This is an interesting contradiction with many leftist. Chinese culture is very misogynist (as is a lot of east Asian culture). I'm not sure why leftist and feminists like to cheer on China, or claim they are nothing to worry about. They do this because they are very short sighted, and find it easier to attack the west (because he west actually affords them the rights) with their hate of so called western "authoritarian "governments. All the while you ignore what a REAL authoritarian state is doing.

That's not to say you can't criticize western nations and government (you absolutely should). However, the sheer ignorance and one sided-ness of so many leftist is baffling.

[Rancid]

All of that said...

There's nothing anyone can do, so if you can get on the train, make a little money by working with China... You might as well do it. I'm being dead serious here. Also, on an individual basis, it's not like Chinese people are evil monsters. They're just people like the rest of us, so might as well be nice.

Enjoy the ride!

[One Degree]

I pretty much agree with @Rancid ‘s view except I think Trump and Brexit will actually bring the world around against China being seen as the ‘good guy’. It will force choices based upon pragmatism rather than idealistic nonsense.

[Istanbuller]

We know really very little about Chinese economy. It is believed that most of figures are fake. They are made to please men in the communist party ruling the country.

China does its calculations in a very short time while it takes much more time for Western nations even considering that Western economices are mostly digitalized and datas are easy to collect. It is hard to believe that China is that much good in calculations.

Any stats coming from China cannot be trusted. I tried to make a work on Chinese economy, particularly on insurance sector, but failed to do it because we don't actual figures.

[Rancid]

It is believed that most of figures are fake.

I think a lot of people also believe that even though the Chinese economic data is not 100% accurate, that it's probably close enough to the truth.

In reality, we don't need economic data to be 100% accurate. it just needs to be mostly accurate.

[SolarCross]

All of that said...

There's nothing anyone can do, so if you can get on the train, make a little money by working with China... You might as well do it. I'm being dead serious here. Also, on an individual basis, it's not like Chinese people are evil monsters. They're just people like the rest of us, so might as well be nice.

Enjoy the ride!

Yeah Chinese people are just fine it is just the governing ideology that is totalitarian garbage.

[Potemkin]

Potemkin wrote:
Yeah, what's up with traditional Chinese music? More to the point, why have they persisted with that cacophany for more than two thousand years? Are they masochists or something?


This is an interesting contradiction with many leftist. Chinese culture is very misogynist (as is a lot of east Asian culture). I'm not sure why leftist and feminists like to cheer on China, or claim they are nothing to worry about. They do this because they are very short sighted, and find it easier to attack the west (because he west actually affords them the rights) with their hate of so called western "authoritarian "governments. All the while you ignore what a REAL authoritarian state is doing.

That's not to say you can't criticize western nations and government (you absolutely should). However, the sheer ignorance and one sided-ness of so many leftist is baffling.

Wow, you gathered all that from my philistine dig at traditional Chinese music? I must have revealed more of myself than I intended.