[Hong Wu]

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/17/72422259 ... st-in-asia

As much as I enjoy a good salutation to Thailand's God Emperor and the military junta that rules in His name, may He not get too smashed tonight, may His ex-flight attendant turned bodyguard turned God Empress always watch over Him, it's probably good to have other kinds of threads in the Asia section too.

This event reminded me of how different my opinions are from liberal opinions. Only months ago in Taiwan, a surprisingly large segment of the population turned out for a referendum on civil unions vs. gay marriage and 67% of Taiwanese crushed the vote saying they prefer a civil unions bill. Apparently this does not matter if the people do not vote for the most liberal option.

"How can we ignore the result of the referendums, which demonstrated the will of the people?" said John Wu, a lawmaker from the opposition Kuomintang party, according to Reuters. "Can we find an appropriate compromise solution? We need more dialogue in society."

LGBT activists celebrated the historic news.

"Hurrah!" tweeted Phil Robertson, Deputy Asia Director at Human Rights Watch. "Taiwan leads the way in Asia on LGBT rights, cementing its laudable record as an increasingly progressive, rights respecting government amid growing authoritarianism and rights abuses in other countries throughout the region. Kudos to activists for this victory!"

First of all, I don't see how rejecting a 2/3rds majority vote is an act against "growing authoritarianism" it sounds like the definition of authoritarianism to me.

Second of all, I know I'm a foreigner and my opinion doesn't matter to most Taiwanese (none of whom appear to be on this forum, either) but the KMT (Kuomintang, founded by famous characters like Sun Yat-Sen and Chiang Kai-Shek) seems like the only non-retarded political party in Taiwan. The main pro-unification party with mainland China is run by an organized criminal who fell off his truck and landed in a prop coffin during a protest and the main liberal party appears to approve of removing every statue of the country's main founder, Chiang Kai-Shek, from the island in acts of historical revisionism and almost completely opposes unification efforts with the mainland while also being strongly against universal military conscription, which are logically opposite policies. They basically have their heads up their asses as far as I could tell. Only the KMT seems to walk a rational middle ground out there: no statues being torn down, respect referendums, respect a moderate and peaceful growth of interactions with their powerful neighbors in mainland China. So the KMT would have also respected this referendum but they apparently don't have the power right now, so a law contrary to the votes of most people was pushed through.

In general, Taiwan faces a lot of issues. They have the world's largest brain drain with lots of people moving to mainland China for work. Unless they were super rich, a significant number of their smartest also moved to the US at one point. Everyone complains about 2-stroke scooters, 97% don't want to integrate with mainland China but they'll definitely work there and don't want to staff their own military. Now this thing with civil unions vs. gay marriage. What a complicated little country it is!

[Rugoz]

To my knowledge it was a supreme court decision, parliament had no choice but to implement it. I would agree that it shouldn't be up to courts to make such decisions.

[Hong Wu]

To my knowledge it was a supreme court decision, parliament had no choice but to implement it. I would agree that it shouldn't be up to courts to make such decisions.

Well, the left hand tends not to know what the right hand is doing in these countries. They could have theoretically ignored their Supreme Court but you are correct that it was justified in part off of a supreme court decision.

[Politics_Observer]

@Hong Wu

Sometimes the mob is wrong. Just because the majority are in favor or against something, doesn't mean that the majority is right. I mean, at one time in our history, the majority of people thought the world was flat, but they were later proven wrong by science. I was just responding to the title of your thread where the majority in Taiwan were in favor of discriminating against the gay and lesbian community and denying them the right to marry.

[blackjack21]

I mean, at one time in our history, the majority of people thought the world was flat, but they were later proven wrong by science.

Polling and science both depend on statistics to a significant degree. Nobody knew what the majority of people thought before statistics, because there was no polling. Nobody would have bothered to take a poll about whether people thought the Earth was flat.

[Godstud]

As much as I enjoy a good salutation to Thailand's God Emperor and the military junta that rules in His name, may He not get too smashed tonight, may His ex-flight attendant turned bodyguard turned God Empress always watch over Him, it's probably good to have other kinds of threads in the Asia section too.

You haven't been keeping up with current events. Thailand is a Democracy once again. They had an election a month ago. They don't refer to their King, or anyone, in such terms. Are you trying to appear ignorant?

It's really too bad that Taiwan has stepped into the 21st century, isn't it, @Hong Wu?

Sometimes the mob is wrong.

QFT. Maybe the government looked at other modern countries and decided it was time.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

I think gay marriage should be legal. The gay and lesbian community should have the same rights as heterosexuals. I don't see that as unreasonable. My understanding is that in Taiwan, the majority of people were AGAINST legalizing gay marriage, which is why I said, sometimes the mob or the majority is wrong.

[Rugoz]

Sometimes the mob is wrong.

You mean whenever you disagree with it.

Just because the majority are in favor or against something, doesn't mean that the majority is right.

There are no objectively right political decisions. One can advocate that certain rights should be beyond majority rule, but it's not up to judges to define those rights.

I mean, at one time in our history, the majority of people thought the world was flat, but they were later proven wrong by science.

Gay marriage is a social institution, not a scientific fact.

[Political Interest]

It's interesting that Taiwan is so liberal. Most of Asia does not have such liberal positions on this question.

How do we account for Taiwan being such a liberal society in Asia?

[Rich]

It's interesting that Taiwan is so liberal. Most of Asia does not have such liberal positions on this question.

How do we account for Taiwan being such a liberal society in Asia?

Well I certainly wish to claim no expertise or deep knowledge on this matter, but one of the great ironies is that one of the greatest protectors against Cultural Marxism has been Marxist dictatorships. The purpose of Cultural Marxism from an orthodox Marxist perspective is to destroy non Marxist societies so they can be taken over. Taiwan obvoulsy lacks the Marxist defence. It also lacks a clear unitary cultural heritage like say Japan or Thailand. It was arguably already multicultural before the Japanese, occupation, then you've got the Japanese occupation followed by the influx and domination of Gaumintang mainlanders, some even Chinese northerners.

In addition It is mercifully free from Muslims, and while not as developed as Japan, pretty much out ranks all other Eastern Asian countries in terms of development.

[Zionist Nationalist]

its ok China will take over them sooner or later and there wont be any gay marriages than

[Rancid]

The Taiwanese see themselves as higher class than the mainland Chinese.

It's going to be a rough adjustment when they are under the rule of Xi Jingping.

I wonder if there will be an immigrant exodus when that happens?

[Patrickov]

Well I certainly wish to claim no expertise or deep knowledge on this matter, but one of the great ironies is that one of the greatest protectors against Cultural Marxism has been Marxist dictatorships. The purpose of Cultural Marxism from an orthodox Marxist perspective is to destroy non Marxist societies so they can be taken over. Taiwan obvoulsy lacks the Marxist defence.

Mind you, many Nationalist supporters denounce the ruling DPP as agents of CCP, despite their strong stance against each other.

In any case, Marxist dictatorship is NOT the answer because it brings more harm than good to us. I am a homophobic but the society needs to give them the space they are entitled to have.

[Rugoz]

...but one of the great ironies is that one of the greatest protectors against Cultural Marxism has been Marxist dictatorships.

Because "Cultural Marxism" is a nonsensical term invented by alt-right dimwits.

[Political Interest]

Well I certainly wish to claim no expertise or deep knowledge on this matter, but one of the great ironies is that one of the greatest protectors against Cultural Marxism has been Marxist dictatorships. The purpose of Cultural Marxism from an orthodox Marxist perspective is to destroy non Marxist societies so they can be taken over. Taiwan obvoulsy lacks the Marxist defence. It also lacks a clear unitary cultural heritage like say Japan or Thailand. It was arguably already multicultural before the Japanese, occupation, then you've got the Japanese occupation followed by the influx and domination of Gaumintang mainlanders, some even Chinese northerners.

In addition It is mercifully free from Muslims, and while not as developed as Japan, pretty much out ranks all other Eastern Asian countries in terms of development.

It does sound like it has similar conditions that produce comparable liberalism in continental European countries.

I wonder why Korea and Japan have not made moves in a similar direction?

[SolarCross]

It does sound like it has similar conditions that produce comparable liberalism in continental European countries.

I wonder why Korea and Japan have not made moves in a similar direction?

I didn't say that. @Rich did. You misquoted.

[Political Interest]

I didn't say that. @Rich did. You misquoted.

Sorry!

[MistyTiger]

It's interesting that Taiwan is so liberal. Most of Asia does not have such liberal positions on this question.

How do we account for Taiwan being such a liberal society in Asia?

I am proud of Taiwan. I hope my Taiwan relatives are proud too.

I think Taiwan is so liberal because it has been a place of massive immigration. The founders of Taiwan were liberal, they wanted freedom from the mainland. They were against Communism.

Taiwan is so modern. I love that they have a bullet train. Sooo efficient and fast! Hands down better than the outdated trains in the US!

[Patrickov]

Taiwan is so modern. I love that they have a bullet train. Sooo efficient and fast! Hands down better than the outdated trains in the US!

An inconvenient truth: Those wicked Commies litter their place with bullet trains.

[Rancid]

My guess is, the government itself wants to make itself more distinct from the mainland, so they are pushing things the mainland does not like. Even if the civilian population also does not like them.