Black people in Japan speak about how they feel freer in Japan than in the USA - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15267188
I found this clip very interesting.

African Americans speak about preferring to live in Japan versus the USA due to not having to worry mostly about cops, and being mistrusted, and having to worry about being incarcerated and living in terror about the system.



I think it is a great little window into what needs to change in the USA.
#15268410
I don't have the experience of being a black person in Japan, but from what I understand, the police in Japan can be more strict in many ways than police in America, and the police and justice system can work in a much more authoritarian fashion (although I'd imagine bad forms of corruption are nearly non-existent amongst Japanese police). Japanese police have some tendency to view any foreigner with some suspicion.

I would also imagine that the African Americans who go to Japan in the first place are probably much more well-behaved than just the average African Americans. So it is not really a representative sample.

I'm also aware there are some black Nigerians in the entertainment district of Tokyo who run scam operations and then extort money out of tourists using physical intimidation. Like you will go to a club, they will be misleading about how much things will actually cost, and then when it comes time to pay the bill they will price gouge you, and you will be too afraid or uncomfortable to not pay what they demand. Or get you drunk to where you have trouble remembering anything and then will run up your credit card.
#15268413
Puffer Fish wrote:Japanese police have some tendency to view any foreigner with some suspicion.

Because they are much more likely to commit crimes than the Japanese.
I would also imagine that the African Americans who go to Japan in the first place are probably much more well-behaved than just the average African Americans. So it is not really a representative sample.

True. White Americans who visit Japan are also not a representative sample.
I'm also aware there are some black Nigerians in the entertainment district of Tokyo who run scam operations and then extort money out of tourists using physical intimidation. Like you will go to a club, they will be misleading about how much things will actually cost, and then when it comes time to pay the bill they will price gouge you, and you will be too afraid or uncomfortable to not pay what they demand. Or get you drunk to where you have trouble remembering anything and then will run up your credit card.

That is done by Japanese, Chinese, Russian, Korean, and other gangsters in Tokyo as well, nothing specifically to do with Nigerians AFAIK.
#15268415
Tainari88 wrote:I found this clip very interesting.

African Americans speak about preferring to live in Japan versus the USA due to not having to worry mostly about cops, and being mistrusted, and having to worry about being incarcerated and living in terror about the system.



I think it is a great little window into what needs to change in the USA.


I don't know, at least judging from what some Hispanics (both Spanish and from Latin America) YouTubers say about living in Japan, the locals draw a clear distinction between themselves and the Gaijin. Integration is not easy, and Japan is very well known for being hard to immigrate to.

If true, I don't think this is what you want for the US, Mexico or Puerto Rico. I've seen some of those guys saying you should not emigrate to Japan unless you can really adapt to the Japanese lifestyle (which is hard if you come from the West), even though they also say Japan is extremely safe and that the Japanese in general are very honest and law abiding.
#15268416
Truth To Power wrote:True. White Americans who visit Japan are also not a representative sample.

Of course, but there is plenty of reason to believe African Americans who travel there would be far more of an unrepresentative sample.

African Americans are statistically far less likely to travel outside of the country than white Americans are, for one thing.
An African American who is deciding to go to Japan is probably going to be a lot more "white-like" than the typical African American.
#15268440
wat0n wrote:I don't know, at least judging from what some Hispanics (both Spanish and from Latin America) YouTubers say about living in Japan, the locals draw a clear distinction between themselves and the Gaijin. Integration is not easy, and Japan is very well known for being hard to immigrate to.

If true, I don't think this is what you want for the US, Mexico or Puerto Rico. I've seen some of those guys saying you should not emigrate to Japan unless you can really adapt to the Japanese lifestyle (which is hard if you come from the West), even though they also say Japan is extremely safe and that the Japanese in general are very honest and law abiding.


Of course integration is not easy. That was not the point of the video Wat0n, it is about what the experience is for African Americans in the USA in terms of how free they feel walking around, going to stores and leading their daily lives in their home country--which is the USA.

I know it is hard for you to put yourself in their shoes. But the truth is that being Black in the USA is a study in worrying about daily existence, all the time. All the time. That puts tremendous stress over many years. It is stressful living in a nation where you are always living with a little bit of fear because the institutions bring you stress.

Poverty is stressful for all poor people. But if you add in that the entire society or the majority of society does not trust you, does not see you with a good attitude? You are literally at some stage of war with the society you live under for your entire life. It takes longer for you to get to buy a home, it takes longer to get promotions, to get hired, to even get basic things done. It becomes a struggle over time that brings about mental and physical breakdowns.

I truly did not understand how bad it was until I adopted my African American son from social services when he was 9 years old. I understood how it was being a Latina living in a state where there was discrimination against many Latinos and Latinas. But not at the level that I had to experience being the mother of a black son. No, that I did not understand until all the things those black men in the video happened to my boy as a teenager. I could not believe that I had to worry about racist people and racist systemic problems snuffing my son's life out just for being black. That is when it finally hit me how hard the situation was for the African American community.

It was neighbors who threatened my son. They also did not like us for adopting him either. We were foreigners speaking Spanish and being strange adopting a kid that was not from our 'race'. The racism shit is real Wat0n. And it is bad to the bone in the USA. You can justify it all you want. For me, my lived experiences teach me more about reality than theories taught in a classroom.

They wanted to be able to be left alone in Japan. They are minorities in Japan. Sure. They are minorities in the USA too. But the difference is the Japanese do not feel threatened by a few African Americans who are law abiding and who learn Japanese and are incredibly good people in their country. The culture in Japan is Japanese. Why should they feel threatened by African Americans? They don't.

It is sad that in their home country, African Americans are seen as all threatening. Especially the males.

They need to fix the problems of racism in the USA. If they don't? That line about being free and the only place there is freedom is not true. There is freedom in places where people finally understand that fear of others is not a good way to deal with other human beings. Talk to them, and find good policies that bring peace, prosperity and stability to all people living in your country. Diversity is a good thing as long as you treat everyone with justice.

That is the key to peace, being just and fair with everyone. Regardless of race, ethnicity and language.

If you can't do that? Then you need to find out why you can't do it.
#15268443
@Tainari88 That is an interesting video!

I think that the reason why some White Americans are so against Blacks is that they are intimidated by the strength of character, the attitude that many Black Americans have. Whites do not often have that fierceness. The White Americans do not like to feel like they are less fierce, but they should admit that they can be less fierce. What is so wrong about not being as fierce as Blacks? So too, they are so mean to Asians because there are skills/attitudes that Asians have that Whites do not. People have different strengths and it is okay. Those racist Whites are just scared to be seen as weak and the fear makes them mean and ugly.

As one guy said at my last job, "They bring you in cheap, they keep you cheap." He was saying that they pay you low and they want to keep your pay rate low. The only way to get paid more is to leave.
#15268447
@Tainari88 and my point is that it is likely those African Americans have not spent enough time in Japan to notice how hard it can be to integrate. They are noticing the obvious good things (the general sense of safety) but have yet to experience the culture shock when they start noticing they aren't having an easy time integrating, despite all their best efforts. The Japanese don't actively distrust them, but they will often just ignore them. And you're also wrong if you believe there's no racism in Japan either, it just takes a different form - just ask Naomi Osaka, as she recounts some Japanese would never believe a Black person could be Japanese. This is very much in line with the experiences of other Westerners (e.g. Hispanics) who say the Japanese will always be sure to draw distinctions between you, the Gaijin, and themselves no matter how well you speak Japanese or respect tradition. I can give you a couple of good channels of Hispanic youtubers (one from Spain, another from Argentina - it largely doesn't matter) who share their experiences living in Japan, including about racism, if you want to have a different perspective.

If it's about lived experiences in the US, please report back when you talk to law abiding Black Chicagoans who have to deal with gang wars in their neighborhoods (I lived in the south side for 4 years). Go on, talk to that lady who had her nephew killed in his own apartment by members of another gang in broad daylight. Or to have them tell you to get out of that neighborhood before dusk, because that's when the gangs come out and it gets dangerous. Or maybe we can discuss the last lived experience of Black community activists who try to get kids within their communities away from gun violence, including that originating from gang activity of course, and are also murdered from time to time like it happened to Delmonte Johnson or LaNiyah Murphy. Or if you want, you can tell me why is it that some of my former south side neighbors feel they need to have a gun within reach in case someone tries to do illegal stuff. Am I supposed to believe they're racist for being afraid? Also, are they the only ones who are allowed to be afraid somehow?

Lastly, the most racist stuff I've heard about Black people since coming to Chicago has come from other Hispanic immigrants (said in Spanish, of course, not in English), not from the typical American WASPs or American-born Chicagoans in general. Those racist rants are also based on "their lived experiences", as if you should judge people you don't know based on their skin color simply because you had a bad experience with X or Y person yet many people do so both inside and outside the US.
Last edited by wat0n on 16 Mar 2023 15:52, edited 1 time in total.
#15268457
MistyTiger wrote:@Tainari88 That is an interesting video!

I think that the reason why some White Americans are so against Blacks is that they are intimidated by the strength of character, the attitude that many Black Americans have. Whites do not often have that fierceness. The White Americans do not like to feel like they are less fierce, but they should admit that they can be less fierce. What is so wrong about not being as fierce as Blacks? So too, they are so mean to Asians because there are skills/attitudes that Asians have that Whites do not. People have different strengths and it is okay. Those racist Whites are just scared to be seen as weak and the fear makes them mean and ugly.

As one guy said at my last job, "They bring you in cheap, they keep you cheap." He was saying that they pay you low and they want to keep your pay rate low. The only way to get paid more is to leave.


Misty, forgive me if my reply is a bit short. I have a meeting in about half an hour for work.

African Americans fled many Southern states like Mississippi and Louisiana and Alabama etc, where there were large amounts of African Americans because of the terror they felt living in those states. White sheriffs and officers of the law and even regular white people felt emboldened in going into black peoples' homes and dragging out Black men and lynching them for minor offenses like what happened with that famous Emmitt Till case in Mississippi.

Many Black people in the USA moved to Detroit to get good jobs in the car factories and etc and that is why many Blacks moved to Philadelphia, NYC, Chicago, etc. fleeing the Black Southern states filled with terror done by white people. The fiercely terroristic people who knew the system was always backing them in the court systems and law enforcement personnel.

For me I never felt scared of Black people Misty. Why should I? I was born in Puerto Rico and there were black people everywhere and the majority of Puerto Ricans had some African ancestry in some part of their family tree and in their blood lines. For example my husband was adopted and did not know he was until the age of 25 when his mother died. His adopted mother was African Puerto Rican so he believed he was half Black Puerto Rican his entire life and that was not true. But who knows what he is racially? I never did find any of that information. He looks white. Is he? No one knows, and the reason he never questioned looking white being from a supposedly African looking mother? Is that Puerto Ricans are racially mixed in huge numbers there. I look white as snow. Am I? No. My genetics say another story. I got African ancestry. But people looking at me think she is white. The Caribbean is kind of like that. Mixed race people in these societies is the norm. Not the exception.

Some sociologists say that people have feelings about other races due to their early impressions of that ethnic group as children. And looking back at my childhood I only had feelings of love and acceptance, respect and admiration for Black people. I remember Gabino, a Black doctor who was a middle class man and his wife and kids, who always would be talking with my mother and I would be around them since they were neighbors, my teachers, my grandmothers friends from church, my father's classmates, my favorite teacher of all from my childhood, and the list is endless, all were black people. I associated that in my subconscious mind with family, trust and respect.

Because that is how I felt towards Africans in general I had such support from that community. I did not notice that till a Mexican friend told me to my face, 'Have you noticed Tainari that black women at work are always on your side and defend you all the time? They do not do that with other people at the office.'

I never noticed that at all. I said, but they are on my side because we agree on a lot of things. She argued with me, and said, no they are on your side because your head and your heart are about equality with them and it is so deep that you do not think about it. They know you are part of them. You are not faking it. You are part of them.

That is what has to happen to get that attitude to change. You got to be a part of that community as an equal person who respects them as equals. It can't be tokenism and fake sincerity for gain.
#15268468
I can't find it now but I remember one short video where a black guy living in Japan explained that he had a very different experience from what he heard other people say. From everything he heard, he expected to be treated like a permanent outsider. But this guy learned to speak Japanese very fluently and took great care to act courteous and respectfully. He even got an apartment in a building for Japanese people, something that is normally difficult for foreigners to do. He said the leasing agent called the apartment manager on her phone and said "Look, you don't understand, he is not like an ordinary foreigner, he behaves like Japanese", and that was enough for the manager to allow him to get the apartment. He said he has always been treated nicely by Japanese and felt like they welcomed him. Probably not the typical experience, but it is revealing. If you talk and behave exactly like them, they will treat you like one of them.
#15268497
Tainari88 wrote:Misty, forgive me if my reply is a bit short. I have a meeting in about half an hour for work.

African Americans fled many Southern states like Mississippi and Louisiana and Alabama etc, where there were large amounts of African Americans because of the terror they felt living in those states. White sheriffs and officers of the law and even regular white people felt emboldened in going into black peoples' homes and dragging out Black men and lynching them for minor offenses like what happened with that famous Emmitt Till case in Mississippi.

Many Black people in the USA moved to Detroit to get good jobs in the car factories and etc and that is why many Blacks moved to Philadelphia, NYC, Chicago, etc. fleeing the Black Southern states filled with terror done by white people. The fiercely terroristic people who knew the system was always backing them in the court systems and law enforcement personnel.

For me I never felt scared of Black people Misty. Why should I? I was born in Puerto Rico and there were black people everywhere and the majority of Puerto Ricans had some African ancestry in some part of their family tree and in their blood lines. For example my husband was adopted and did not know he was until the age of 25 when his mother died. His adopted mother was African Puerto Rican so he believed he was half Black Puerto Rican his entire life and that was not true. But who knows what he is racially? I never did find any of that information. He looks white. Is he? No one knows, and the reason he never questioned looking white being from a supposedly African looking mother? Is that Puerto Ricans are racially mixed in huge numbers there. I look white as snow. Am I? No. My genetics say another story. I got African ancestry. But people looking at me think she is white. The Caribbean is kind of like that. Mixed race people in these societies is the norm. Not the exception.

Some sociologists say that people have feelings about other races due to their early impressions of that ethnic group as children. And looking back at my childhood I only had feelings of love and acceptance, respect and admiration for Black people. I remember Gabino, a Black doctor who was a middle class man and his wife and kids, who always would be talking with my mother and I would be around them since they were neighbors, my teachers, my grandmothers friends from church, my father's classmates, my favorite teacher of all from my childhood, and the list is endless, all were black people. I associated that in my subconscious mind with family, trust and respect.

Because that is how I felt towards Africans in general I had such support from that community. I did not notice that till a Mexican friend told me to my face, 'Have you noticed Tainari that black women at work are always on your side and defend you all the time? They do not do that with other people at the office.'

I never noticed that at all. I said, but they are on my side because we agree on a lot of things. She argued with me, and said, no they are on your side because your head and your heart are about equality with them and it is so deep that you do not think about it. They know you are part of them. You are not faking it. You are part of them.

That is what has to happen to get that attitude to change. You got to be a part of that community as an equal person who respects them as equals. It can't be tokenism and fake sincerity for gain.


Well said, dear.

I grew up believing that we are all the same. People tend to gravitate towards me because they can feel my sincerity and my openness. One of my closest friends is a Black man. He embraces our differences and what we have in common. He is a beautiful human being, so caring.

I wondered if I was a shrink because random people will go up to me and mumble an issue. I just listen. I hope they feel better.

I support an inclusive world where people feel comfortable being themselves. And they feel free to just be who they are.
#15268505
@MistyTiger I have read about your family and the things you write about make me think of so many things that have to do with living with the tension of feeling not valued in society. Not valued at work. So many things that have to do with being discriminated against.

I always want you to have a great life darling. Find real love. Find a way of making yourself always going forward in life. Never let any of these racist people ever take your sense of identity and being a part of American society away.

We are humans. All of us.

Meanwhile, the real terrorism was this kind of thing in the Southern states and the Northern states full of racist people with hatred and violence on their minds. That needs to never happen.

#15268584
wat0n wrote:@Tainari88 and my point is that it is likely those African Americans have not spent enough time in Japan to notice how hard it can be to integrate. They are noticing the obvious good things (the general sense of safety) but have yet to experience the culture shock when they start noticing they aren't having an easy time integrating, despite all their best efforts. The Japanese don't actively distrust them, but they will often just ignore them. And you're also wrong if you believe there's no racism in Japan either, it just takes a different form - just ask Naomi Osaka, as she recounts some Japanese would never believe a Black person could be Japanese. This is very much in line with the experiences of other Westerners (e.g. Hispanics) who say the Japanese will always be sure to draw distinctions between you, the Gaijin, and themselves no matter how well you speak Japanese or respect tradition. I can give you a couple of good channels of Hispanic youtubers (one from Spain, another from Argentina - it largely doesn't matter) who share their experiences living in Japan, including about racism, if you want to have a different perspective.

If it's about lived experiences in the US, please report back when you talk to law abiding Black Chicagoans who have to deal with gang wars in their neighborhoods (I lived in the south side for 4 years). Go on, talk to that lady who had her nephew killed in his own apartment by members of another gang in broad daylight. Or to have them tell you to get out of that neighborhood before dusk, because that's when the gangs come out and it gets dangerous. Or maybe we can discuss the last lived experience of Black community activists who try to get kids within their communities away from gun violence, including that originating from gang activity of course, and are also murdered from time to time like it happened to Delmonte Johnson or LaNiyah Murphy. Or if you want, you can tell me why is it that some of my former south side neighbors feel they need to have a gun within reach in case someone tries to do illegal stuff. Am I supposed to believe they're racist for being afraid? Also, are they the only ones who are allowed to be afraid somehow?

Lastly, the most racist stuff I've heard about Black people since coming to Chicago has come from other Hispanic immigrants (said in Spanish, of course, not in English), not from the typical American WASPs or American-born Chicagoans in general. Those racist rants are also based on "their lived experiences", as if you should judge people you don't know based on their skin color simply because you had a bad experience with X or Y person yet many people do so both inside and outside the US.



You lack depth in so many things you write @wat0n. If you look at human behavior and human beings objectively, which you very rarely do because you want to defend the USA system so badly and the worst of it is, that as a Chilean immigrant with a precarious status in the USA, you feel you know more than the generations of people who have lived here for a long ass time. You did not pay attention to the white resentment video did you with Jon Stewart talking about the long history of violence, and oppressive institutions, that were always constantly making laws that forced black people to live with intolerable conditions? Contrary to their own stated foundational documents.

You did not pay attention to what I wrote to you about capos in the Jewish interned population in horrible concentration camps like Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen, Dachau, etc. what did I write about to you in regards to Capos? Who are these people? This is the definition. They were Jewish prisoners the same as the rest. But they were under a very horrible oppressive situation and they would rather cooperate with the enemy of theirs and oppress and do the dirty work of the German military authorities than wind up getting killed themselves standing up to any kind of German authority. They could be painted as victims too. They were. But they chose to cooperate with the system of oppression rather than fight for their own liberation actively even if it costs them their lives.

You don't understand human behavior across the board at all. It is really bad Wat0n. It has to be spelled out for you and digested for you like fucking baby food. Why? I happen to think you are really indoctrinated with shitty propaganda in the extreme by some liberal semi-shitty right-wing status scene from Chile and people who admire the Gringo way of life in the extreme, and propaganda swallowers of the worst sort.

I never make sweeping statements about living in a culture I never lived in. That is for people who are foolish and uninformed and ignorant. They believe in propaganda. You live in Chicago and do not get what the fuck is happening in Chicago at all. Why is there black-on-black violence? The same reason there was Jewish-on-Jewish violence in the concentration camps but to a lesser extreme.

I am going to give you a clear example of what I am talking about. It is about internalized racism. Something the Black community knows very well. It is called colorism. Do you know what that is? Look it up. They internalize institutionalized racism so much that they discriminate against other black people based on color. Just like white people do. It is a form of self-hatred. It is very common in colonized nations, colonized countries, colonized communities, and people having to adapt to not having power and having to survive on limited resources and limited options. Poverty also contributes to that psychological phenomenon.

Hispanics as you say and not Latin Americans which is a better term for pan-Latin Americanism in the USA, discriminate against Blacks because that is all they see on the evening news, and also because the Black community has all kinds of stress and anger and crime due to the conditions I just told you about in this thread.

African Americans are not saints and perfect. They are not special humans. They are just human. They have people who are not very intelligent, they got geniuses, they got some great athletes, and some nerds, they got some who are good at this or that. They vary. Just like the white communities and the Latino communities and the Asian communities. Again it is COMPLEX because they are human beings. Just like all of us are. Why can't they be allowed to be humans with all the defective qualities that every other ethnic group has? You got tacky people and violent people in the white community too....poverty galore, welfare recipients, alcoholics, drug addicts, and so on. But those sectors that are a minority in any community of any race are never held up as representative of all the white people in the USA in social media or in communications. On film or in mass media. Why? Because white people are central to everything. The model to be imitated and the ones who are not white are the abnormal out-groups. WHY??? Analyze that for once. No, you will come up with BULLSHIT again expecting me to break it down for you. Why? You are totally indoctrinated con MIERDA. All day long.

You believe stereotypes about your own group with bullshit theories of Napoleon Bonaparte caudillismo. The French were defeated in the battle of Puebla in Mexico long ago. Benito Juarez was the president of Mexico. They celebrate his birthday here this month. March 21. He spoke Zapotec. First. He was an Indian speaking not Spanish at all at first. But Zapotec. He became the president of Mexico. Did a Native American become the president of the USA? NO!!! Never once has there been an Indian culture president in the USA. It is another history here than in the USA. The founding father of the Mexican national was Maderos and also Vicente Guerrero a Black Mexican famously said, (La Patria es Primera). The Fatherland is First. A BLACK MEXICAN GEORGE Washington. Mexico is not the same as the USA in almost everything. But somehow the history that is taught to people is totally false in the media and in the mass communication platforms. It is all controlled.

Part of the thread says there Black people in Japan speak about how they feel freer in Japan than in the USA. You worry about them fitting in or assimilating. They don't care about being a minority in a nation full of Japanese people. They just wanted to get away from feeling fear while living in their native societies. Why do they feel fear? Because they have to walk around and live with the terrorism of white people controlling the narrative. I posted a lot already about why white people get upset or resentful over black people eloquently writing about a totally all Black experience making Black people the center protagonists in a story. They got pissed over making Ariel the Little Mermaid a black young woman. Instead of white. Jane Elliot speaks about that. Why? Because they are used to being in the fucking CENTER of everything in media. Film, newspapers, magazines, books, radio, videos, social media platforms. Hell white people are a minority on planet Earth!!!

Who are the most numerous people on Earth? Asians, Africans, Latin Americans and Native people of every land.....take all those people together in raw numbers? European white people are TINY in percentages. But they got to be the definition of all that is good in human life. It is a LIE of massive proportions. Be balanced. That means if there are good things to human beings they exist in ALL human races. If there are bad aspects to human beings then they exist in ALL human races. Stop expecting the whites or the Yankees or the Gringos or the rich or whoever happens to be in power like the German SS and Third Reich were in power in the concentration camps to be the standard of what one should be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo

Do I have to spoon-feed you information and connect the dots? The Germans were white. They were violent killers, and racists, and did the most disgusting things on planet Earth. Why didn't the USA bomb them with two Atom Bombs like they did the Japanese? Who knows? But that the whites are not violent or scary or terrorists are FALSE. Europe is mostly white people and they are always warring with each other. Why don't people create fucking stereotypes about Europeans and their eternal wars that are bloody for power and Empire building? Fucking violent ethnicity over there.

No, they blacks are the scary ones. Why? To justify the exploitation and the perpetuation of a caste system in the USA where the whites are more human than blacks. Why? because to accept that they are equals in every way and human and just as prone to be making mistakes and having defects means taking responsibility for their own injustice and their own lack of humanity. Take responsibility and stop hiding from all these fucking lies they do in the world to avoid CHANGING the society. It needs changing.

That is the point. IF you need me @wat0n to make connections and do a synthesis for you as if you were some freshman in high school? You need to get a grip and get off your ass and do some independent thinking. You have demonstrated really brown nosing shit behavior.


If you are waiting for a green card or need help becoming another hate on anyone who is not the fucking German SS in power because you need to be part of it? You are never going to make a society that will actually help you become a US citizen Wat0n. The reason you got a shot at being a US citizen now? Is because in the 1960s the Leftist radicals whom you disapprove of, pressured the US government into changing their visa immigration programs to include third world people. That meant Chile. Yes. Third World. Your nation. For the Yankee government, South American nations are all a bunch of hellholes. So is Africa. It is all inferior. They judge everyone by the money in the bank and the whiteness of the skin. English on the tongue and property they own.

Who are you? Do you own a house in your name in Chicago? Do you speak English only every day? Are you a US citizen with an oath pledging to pay taxes and be going for defending a constitution that even the senators who pledge to defend don't defend? Are you white? Just how white? Are you Christian? If you said not to most of those questions? Then why the fuck are you always worried about criticisms to the US government? Do you see why I really think you are LAZY? It is obvious you never read a damn thing or hear these videos with a critical mind.

Ave María chico. Deja la mierda ya!
#15268598
Tainari88 wrote:You lack depth in so many things you write


I think the same about your nonsense.

Your stuff boil down to "the other day, XXX happened to me" or "well, he doesn't like the US so he's good".

Tainari88 wrote:@wat0n. If you look at human behavior and human beings objectively, which you very rarely do because you want to defend the USA system so badly and the worst of it is, that as a Chilean immigrant with a precarious status in the USA, you feel you know more than the generations of people who have lived here for a long ass time. You did not pay attention to the white resentment video did you with Jon Stewart talking about the long history of violence, and oppressive institutions, that were always constantly making laws that forced black people to live with intolerable conditions? Contrary to their own stated foundational documents.


And you do not pay attention to the fact that the US in 2023 is not the US in 1953. It's a rather different country, and a far less racist one too.

Another thing you don't truly pay attention to is to the fact that people from all walks of life and all races can be prejudiced. Or more precisely, you think all prejudice comes from white people and that everyone else is prejudiced because of them.

No, that's simply not true and pretends people are not responsible for overcoming their own prejudices.

Tainari88 wrote:You did not pay attention to what I wrote to you about capos in the Jewish interned population in horrible concentration camps like Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen, Dachau, etc. what did I write about to you in regards to Capos? Who are these people? This is the definition. They were Jewish prisoners the same as the rest. But they were under a very horrible oppressive situation and they would rather cooperate with the enemy of theirs and oppress and do the dirty work of the German military authorities than wind up getting killed themselves standing up to any kind of German authority. They could be painted as victims too. They were. But they chose to cooperate with the system of oppression rather than fight for their own liberation actively even if it costs them their lives.


I don't need you to teach me about Jewish history, and I don't care about your lectures to Holocaust victims.

You're also a hypocrite: You claim to fight against oppression yet you don't even live in the US, instead, you used the privilege of having earned American wages for a lifetime to live in a poorer country like Mexico and where the dollar can get you far with little effort. Many white American retirees do the same, but they don't usually claim to be resisting anything or anyone, and they sure as hell don't berate others for not doing the same.

Tainari88 wrote:You don't understand human behavior across the board at all. It is really bad Wat0n. It has to be spelled out for you and digested for you like fucking baby food. Why? I happen to think you are really indoctrinated with shitty propaganda in the extreme by some liberal semi-shitty right-wing status scene from Chile and people who admire the Gringo way of life in the extreme, and propaganda swallowers of the worst sort.


Not really. American society obviously has its own flaws, just like any society.

For example, their obsession with race is definitely a flaw and as a good American you share it too. Another thing that might finally be beginning to change is their absurd dependence on cars.

But there are also good things about the American way of life, again, just like anywhere else. One thing I like is that people are generally more respectful of your personal life than in Latin America, and unwanted intrusions on it - like all patronizing as you are doing right now -, are far more likely to be pushed back on. The downside of it is that it also means it's harder to make friends or socialize in general, but as far as I'm concerned the upsides beat the downsides. It's purely a matter of personal preference.

Tainari88 wrote:I never make sweeping statements about living in a culture I never lived in. That is for people who are foolish and uninformed and ignorant. They believe in propaganda. You live in Chicago and do not get what the fuck is happening in Chicago at all. Why is there black-on-black violence? The same reason there was Jewish-on-Jewish violence in the concentration camps but to a lesser extreme.

I am going to give you a clear example of what I am talking about. It is about internalized racism. Something the Black community knows very well. It is called colorism. Do you know what that is? Look it up. They internalize institutionalized racism so much that they discriminate against other black people based on color. Just like white people do. It is a form of self-hatred. It is very common in colonized nations, colonized countries, colonized communities, and people having to adapt to not having power and having to survive on limited resources and limited options. Poverty also contributes to that psychological phenomenon.


I call bullshit. The problem with Black on Black violence in Chicago has to do to a large extent with organized crime, and it's not something it's happened only to them either. This is Chicago we're talking about, the city of Al Capone and indeed, the mafia represented a very similar problem at the time.

Why do some people join gangs anyway? Because they perceive getting into the drug trade is more profitable than abiding by the law and that they are unlikely to be caught. And they're probably right, drugs in general aren't going to be legalized anytime soon so drug trafficking will remain profitable, and no one is really willing to do whatever it takes to deal with the gang problem. Residents who have to deal with the problem will complain, but wouldn't like heavy handed police or harsher action in their communities both for historical reasons (racism) and also practical ones (it'd be even more dangerous to their safety). Non-residents don't have to deal with the problem either, and due to the cases of police brutality there is also no appetite for heavy handed action in general even after the recent crime increase (furthermore, Chicago is still safer nowadays than 20 or 30 years ago). Even politicians themselves don't see economic reasons to do so, since most of the gang activity happens outside the economic engines of the city anyway. No one wants to face the costs of doing anything about it and even if they did, it would at best be a temporary relief as long as drugs remain illegal. If currently existing gangs don't do it, new ones will form because someone else will have to sell to drug users.

This is exactly what happened with Al Capone during Prohibition, so it's not new. And it did not involve Black people back then.

Tainari88 wrote:Hispanics as you say and not Latin Americans which is a better term for pan-Latin Americanism in the USA, discriminate against Blacks because that is all they see on the evening news, and also because the Black community has all kinds of stress and anger and crime due to the conditions I just told you about in this thread.


I say Hispanics because I haven't too much contact with non-Hispanic Latin Americans like Brazilians or Haitians. I don't speak Portuguese or Creole, so I can't share any experiences.

Also, those guys were speaking from personal experience and generalizing.

Guy #1 was an Uber driver who was extorted by a Black female rider. She basically managed to take his phone and demanded $200 or else she'd call his wife and tell her she had enjoyed sucking his dick. He refused and she followed through, giving him a big problem to deal with at home.

Guy #2 should sound familiar to you: He said some African Americans told him to stop speaking Spanish, in his view "morenos" feel you're talking shit about them when they don't understand whatever some other people are saying.

In reality, most African Americans won't try to blackmail you and will probably not tell you to stick to English. Same goes for Whites and everyone else for that matter.

Tainari88 wrote:African Americans are not saints and perfect. They are not special humans. They are just human. They have people who are not very intelligent, they got geniuses, they got some great athletes, and some nerds, they got some who are good at this or that. They vary. Just like the white communities and the Latino communities and the Asian communities. Again it is COMPLEX because they are human beings. Just like all of us are. Why can't they be allowed to be humans with all the defective qualities that every other ethnic group has? You got tacky people and violent people in the white community too....poverty galore, welfare recipients, alcoholics, drug addicts, and so on. But those sectors that are a minority in any community of any race are never held up as representative of all the white people in the USA in social media or in communications. On film or in mass media. Why? Because white people are central to everything. The model to be imitated and the ones who are not white are the abnormal out-groups. WHY??? Analyze that for once. No, you will come up with BULLSHIT again expecting me to break it down for you. Why? You are totally indoctrinated con MIERDA. All day long.


I explicitly said one shouldn't generalize stuff about people you don't know simply because of their race. Funnily enough, you do the same when it comes to talking about white people.

Further showing that many people do just that: Generalize about others without even speaking to them, because of their skin color.

Tainari88 wrote:You believe stereotypes about your own group with bullshit theories of Napoleon Bonaparte caudillismo. The French were defeated in the battle of Puebla in Mexico long ago. Benito Juarez was the president of Mexico. They celebrate his birthday here this month. March 21. He spoke Zapotec. First. He was an Indian speaking not Spanish at all at first. But Zapotec. He became the president of Mexico. Did a Native American become the president of the USA? NO!!! Never once has there been an Indian culture president in the USA. It is another history here than in the USA. The founding father of the Mexican national was Maderos and also Vicente Guerrero a Black Mexican famously said, (La Patria es Primera). The Fatherland is First. A BLACK MEXICAN GEORGE Washington. Mexico is not the same as the USA in almost everything. But somehow the history that is taught to people is totally false in the media and in the mass communication platforms. It is all controlled.


Well, Benito Juarez admired the American system of government and tried to depersonalize Mexican institutions so no caudillos would emerge. Was he too innocent or ignorant about human behavior too?

Also, there are also Latin American countries that have never had an indigenous President. So what? Why do you berate the US for things that also happen in Latin America?

Tainari88 wrote:Part of the thread says there Black people in Japan speak about how they feel freer in Japan than in the USA. You worry about them fitting in or assimilating. They don't care about being a minority in a nation full of Japanese people. They just wanted to get away from feeling fear while living in their native societies. Why do they feel fear? Because they have to walk around and live with the terrorism of white people controlling the narrative. I posted a lot already about why white people get upset or resentful over black people eloquently writing about a totally all Black experience making Black people the center protagonists in a story. They got pissed over making Ariel the Little Mermaid a black young woman. Instead of white. Jane Elliot speaks about that. Why? Because they are used to being in the fucking CENTER of everything in media. Film, newspapers, magazines, books, radio, videos, social media platforms. Hell white people are a minority on planet Earth!!!


They don't care about assimilating now but they will down the line. If they really like Japan and want to stay for good, they probably do want to stop being seen as foreigners and treated as such. Like having people assume their command of Japanese is poor or that they can't use chopsticks because they don't look Japanese.

Or what, are you saying that just because one guy's name is Juan or Pedro those of us who live in the US should assume he only speaks Spanish? Have you considered this can also be seen as racist?

As for the mermaid stuff, I don't care too much but if the only contribution is to just change a character's race then I'd say they're not too creative. It's sad because there are plenty of myths and actual history from the non-Western world that could make for good films, and let Westerners learn about other cultures. Japan, in fact, does this really well, so well that manga sells more than traditional American comics.

Tainari88 wrote:Who are the most numerous people on Earth? Asians, Africans, Latin Americans and Native people of every land.....take all those people together in raw numbers? European white people are TINY in percentages. But they got to be the definition of all that is good in human life. It is a LIE of massive proportions. Be balanced. That means if there are good things to human beings they exist in ALL human races. If there are bad aspects to human beings then they exist in ALL human races. Stop expecting the whites or the Yankees or the Gringos or the rich or whoever happens to be in power like the German SS and Third Reich were in power in the concentration camps to be the standard of what one should be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapo

Do I have to spoon-feed you information and connect the dots? The Germans were white. They were violent killers, and racists, and did the most disgusting things on planet Earth. Why didn't the USA bomb them with two Atom Bombs like they did the Japanese? Who knows? But that the whites are not violent or scary or terrorists are FALSE. Europe is mostly white people and they are always warring with each other. Why don't people create fucking stereotypes about Europeans and their eternal wars that are bloody for power and Empire building? Fucking violent ethnicity over there.


Many do, actually. Specially in Latin America, it's common to blame Europeans and Americans for all our problems. You are also aware of this.

And again, I don't need you to teach me about Jewish history. You also have no idea about what many Jews feel about Europe or not, specially in Israel. Things are far, far more complicated and even within my own family they'll tell you Europe is not a good place to move to if you're Jewish and that you're way better off in the US.

Tainari88 wrote:No, they blacks are the scary ones. Why? To justify the exploitation and the perpetuation of a caste system in the USA where the whites are more human than blacks. Why? because to accept that they are equals in every way and human and just as prone to be making mistakes and having defects means taking responsibility for their own injustice and their own lack of humanity. Take responsibility and stop hiding from all these fucking lies they do in the world to avoid CHANGING the society. It needs changing.

That is the point. IF you need me @wat0n to make connections and do a synthesis for you as if you were some freshman in high school? You need to get a grip and get off your ass and do some independent thinking. You have demonstrated really brown nosing shit behavior.


I agree independent thinking is important. So when a Black woman tells you to get out of her neighborhood because the gangs will be coming out and shooting each other soon, is she being racist? Does she hate herself?

I don't buy that shit. Chileans will avoid dangerous neighborhoods in Chile just like everyone else. We don't need a white person to tell us to that.

Tainari88 wrote:If you are waiting for a green card or need help becoming another hate on anyone who is not the fucking German SS in power because you need to be part of it? You are never going to make a society that will actually help you become a US citizen Wat0n. The reason you got a shot at being a US citizen now? Is because in the 1960s the Leftist radicals whom you disapprove of, pressured the US government into changing their visa immigration programs to include third world people. That meant Chile. Yes. Third World. Your nation. For the Yankee government, South American nations are all a bunch of hellholes. So is Africa. It is all inferior. They judge everyone by the money in the bank and the whiteness of the skin. English on the tongue and property they own.


No, those were definitely not leftist radicals who did that. It was most certainly a decision by American economic, political, social and intellectual elites, particularly those from the north.

Wiki wrote:...

In the 1960s, the United States faced both foreign and domestic pressures to change its nation-based formula, which was regarded as a system that discriminated based on an individual's place of birth. Abroad, former military allies and new independent nations aimed to de-legitimize discriminatory immigration, naturalization and regulations through international organizations like the United Nations.[17] In the United States, the national-based formula had been under scrutiny for a number of years. In 1952, President Truman had directed the Commission on Immigration and Naturalization to conduct an investigation and produce a report on the current immigration regulations. The report, Whom We Shall Welcome, served as the blueprint for the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965.[18] At the height of the Civil Rights Movement the restrictive immigration laws were seen as an embarrassment.[7] At the time of the act's passing, many high-ranking politicians favored this bill to be passed, including President Lyndon B. Johnson.[19] However, the public did not reciprocate these feelings, which can be seen in a Gallup Organization poll in 1965 asking if they were in favor of getting rid of the national quota act, and only 51 percent were in favor.[20] The act was pressured by high-ranking officials and interest groups to be passed, which it was passed on October 3, 1965.[21] President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the 1965 act into law at the foot of the Statue of Liberty, ending preferences for white immigrants dating to the 18th century.[10]

....


Having laws in the book that had been praised by Hitler himself in Mein Kampf was seen as embarrassing, and rightly so.

Tainari88 wrote:Who are you? Do you own a house in your name in Chicago? Do you speak English only every day? Are you a US citizen with an oath pledging to pay taxes and be going for defending a constitution that even the senators who pledge to defend don't defend? Are you white? Just how white? Are you Christian? If you said not to most of those questions? Then why the fuck are you always worried about criticisms to the US government? Do you see why I really think you are LAZY? It is obvious you never read a damn thing or hear these videos with a critical mind.

Ave María chico. Deja la mierda ya!


I'm worried about stupidity, I'm sure the US government will do just fine but internal cohesion may not. The obsession with race and what divides people in this country trumps what Americans share, and that's definitely a bad thing. It makes it hard to reach broad agreements that allow for a more inclusive country and specially a more inclusive political system.

I am also worried about the spread of the current American postmodern racial identity politics abroad, we rejected a racist Chilean Constitution inspired by people who think like you last year but that threat is most definitely not gone. And just like your stupid politics has spread to the Chilean left (and the left in Latin America and Europe), the Chilean right is copying Trump with regards to immigration (and may start with the rest too), just as the Latin American and European right has. That is, there is a similar process that's happening outside the US too.

In reality, American politics and culture has an influence that goes well beyond its borders and that includes both the good and the bad things. Nowadays, it includes specially the bad things.

At last, what makes you believe I can't have access to those things in due time? I may be on a work visa now, but I will be able to apply for a Green Card less than 3 years from now. Then, if I get it, I will be able to apply for citizenship down the line if I want to. I have access to a better quality of life than in Chile as well, despite all the problems the US has to deal with (from its politics, to its urbanism, to its healthcare system). Millions of other Latin Americans share my assessment too, judging by the migratory flows to and from Latin America.
#15268612
I may be on a work visa now, but I will be able to apply for a Green Card less than 3 years from now. Then, if I get it, I will be able to apply for citizenship down the line if I want to. I have access to a better quality of life than in Chile as well, despite all the problems the US has to deal with (from its politics, to its urbanism, to its healthcare system). Millions of other Latin Americans share my assessment too, judging by the migratory flows to and from Latin America.


IF you get the green card, big IF. My cousin born and raised in Taiwan, studied at a top university in New York for his master's degree in architecture. He gets a job at an American firm. But do they let him work in the US for a green card? Nope. They send him overseas to Shanghai because he speaks Chinese fluently. Did he ever get his green card? No. He now works in another city in China but no longer at that American firm. He is now hoping his children will be able to immigrate to the US, but there is no guarantee that that will happen.

How many companies in the US will sponsor visas? I do not know if it is a large or small percentage. But I do recall that one time I saw a naturalization ceremony on TV for my area and there was one man who was near 60 or 70. It took him that long to get citizenship.

It is not so easy to get US citizenship in the 21st century. It was a bit easier in the 20th century. But after all the struggle, is it worth it? My father can never give me a straight answer. He does not look happy when I ask him that question so I do not ask again. He has been through so much in and out of the workplaces. He may look tough on the outside and he got called "Apache", but on the inside, he is not so tough. But he always knew he was responsible for earning money to support his family. He may not have been the best father to children, but he was able to get work and keep the money flowing in, as humble as it was. He never earned a 6-figure salary and he never demanded that.
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MistyTiger wrote:IF you get the green card, big IF. My cousin born and raised in Taiwan, studied at a top university in New York for his master's degree in architecture. He gets a job at an American firm. But do they let him work in the US for a green card? Nope. They send him overseas to Shanghai because he speaks Chinese fluently. Did he ever get his green card? No. He now works in another city in China but no longer at that American firm. He is now hoping his children will be able to immigrate to the US, but there is no guarantee that that will happen.

How many companies in the US will sponsor visas? I do not know if it is a large or small percentage. But I do recall that one time I saw a naturalization ceremony on TV for my area and there was one man who was near 60 or 70. It took him that long to get citizenship.

It is not so easy to get US citizenship in the 21st century. It was a bit easier in the 20th century. But after all the struggle, is it worth it? My father can never give me a straight answer. He does not look happy when I ask him that question so I do not ask again. He has been through so much in and out of the workplaces. He may look tough on the outside and he got called "Apache", but on the inside, he is not so tough. But he always knew he was responsible for earning money to support his family. He may not have been the best father to children, but he was able to get work and keep the money flowing in, as humble as it was. He never earned a 6-figure salary and he never demanded that.


It depends. How it works if you come as a student on a F-1 visa is that first you get a work visa, normally a H1-B, and then you can get a Green Card. If your company is able to sponsor you for a work visa, it can upgrade it to a Green Card relatively quickly but it's common for them to exhaust the full visa period (3 years, renewable 1 time for another 3) because you can't easily quit.

Going from the H1-B to the Green Card can be easy or hard depending on your country of birth, because no country can get more than 7% of all the GCs in any given year. That means that people born in countries with many expats applying for GCs can face a long backlog (up to 150 years - yes, 150 years), but that isn't my case. My understanding is that, when you get sent to this backlog, you can still stay under a temporary H1-B extension.

However, getting the H1-B to begin with is hard. There's a lottery process if there are more than 85,000 applicants to work in for-profit businesses in any given year (normally, over a million apply each year). In my case, I didn't have to try the lottery because I work for a nonprofit (AKA the uncapped sector) although I would need to do so if I wanted to work for a for profit and it agreed to sponsor me. Because of the lottery and other associated visa costs, you can find many employers who just don't want to deal with the visa process at all and will only hire Americans.

I already renewed my H1-B once, but my employer told me back when I asked for the H1-B the first time it would fully exhaust the H1-Bs before sponsoring a Green Card. Often, the US degree + work experience can let you access better jobs at home, or to move to other countries like Canada or Australia. If I didn't get the GC, I'd probably just try my luck in Canada. So, even if it doesn't work out for me, I think this has still been a good opportunity even if I'm still paying for the masters.

At last, there is also talk about just removing the country caps for the employment-based GCs so the backlog, both the existing one and also the backlog arising due to the pandemic (all visa processing was stopped in 2020 and resumed the following year), can be addressed.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-con ... -bill/3648
#15268624
Got to make a chart for @wat0n . Step by step. So his indoctrinated mind can actually understand what the posts are about.

African Americans did not get on a boat and immigrate out of their own free will to the USA. Fact. Most descendants of Africans in the US were brought here in chains. They were property. Like a cow, or horse or a chair. No human rights. No civil rights. Property. They were exploited, and rented out to others when the white slaveowners were low on funds. That continued for centuries. Fact. No one is saying this does not exist. Do you agree with facts Wat0n? yes or no?

There was a civil war that lasted four years in the USA. It killed a tremendous amount of US citizens on both sides. The Union won. Fact. Can you accept that is a fact?

There was the emancipation proclaimation done after the civil war was over. Is that a fact? Yes or no?

Black people were terrorized by the KKK and the film shown by turn of the century Woodrow Wilson White House was called Birth of a Nation. It is racist and encouraged violence against Black people in the USA. Fact. This movie was shown all over.

I can sit here and write a long, long novel of real facts of lack of rights of African Americans. Including, Jim Crow laws.

Fact. Were the Black soldiers allowed to have the same amount of benefits as white soldiers once WWII was done? No. They were not. Fact.

How were they discriminated against? It is already talked about. Here is another video you won't listen to because you are LAZY.



So, this is a fact. Redlining.

I am going to eat now and come back and deal with more of your constant defensive propaganda mierda ideas.

Reality is kind of ugly in the USA.

But you will continue to believe in mierda forever. Life will teach you the reality you refuse to deal with.

Be prepared Wat0n. Because all the alcahuetismo is not going to work over a long period of time in a society in which you got to compete with a society that is tired of immigration. They want some good ole Americans. But they are not getting that the only people willing to get here are from Latin America and Asia. And they need to give up on demographic dominance. It is over. That fight is lost.

Last edited by Tainari88 on 17 Mar 2023 21:02, edited 1 time in total.
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MistyTiger wrote:How many companies in the US will sponsor visas?


Many do.

One of my reports is an H1-B (will probably get the green card in the coming year or two), another recently became a US citizen.

Visa sponsorship isn't a problem for me. When I hire, if a candidate say's "I need visa sponsorship", that's an easy "no problem" from me.
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Rancid wrote:Many do.

One of my reports is an H1-B (will probably get the green card in the coming year or two), another recently became a US citizen.

Visa sponsorship isn't a problem for me. When I hire, if a candidate say's "I need visa sponsorship", that's an easy "no problem" from me.


Get English people from England or Germany. Only snow white people with PhD's from Oxford allowed. Lol.

Oh, fuck, none of the candidates out there are pure English or German or Dutch or whatever stock. The math is about how many people on Earth are white?







Everyone else is not really white. So? Everyone needs to get used to stories, values, and thoughts that are not centered on that perspective. Period.
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