[Tainari88]

Many do.

One of my reports is an H1-B (will probably get the green card in the coming year or two), another recently became a US citizen.

Visa sponsorship isn't a problem for me. When I hire, if a candidate say's "I need visa sponsorship", that's an easy "no problem" from me.

You mean you are not going to build a Tech wall? Lol. Build that wall. Haha.

Are you white? Did you take your Ancestry test? You are suspicious. How white are you Rancid?

[wat0n]

Got to make a chart for @wat0n . Step by step. So his indoctrinated mind can actually understand what the posts are about.

African Americans did not get on a boat and immigrate out of their own free will to the USA. Fact. Most descendants of Africans in the US were brought here in chains. They were property. Like a cow, or horse or a chair. No human rights. No civil rights. Property. They were exploited, and rented out to others when the white slaveowners were low on funds. That continued for centuries. Fact. No one is saying this does not exist. Do you agree with facts Wat0n? yes or no?

There was a civil war that lasted four years in the USA. It killed a tremendous amount of US citizens on both sides. The Union won. Fact. Can you accept that is a fact?

There was the emancipation proclaimation done after the civil war was over. Is that a fact? Yes or no?

Black people were terrorized by the KKK and the film shown by turn of the century Woodrow Wilson White House was called Birth of a Nation. It is racist and encouraged violence against Black people in the USA. Fact. This movie was shown all over.

I can sit here and write a long, long novel of real facts of lack of rights of African Americans. Including, Jim Crow laws.

Fact. Were the Black soldiers allowed to have the same amount of benefits as white soldiers once WWII was done? No. They were not. Fact.

How were they discriminated against? It is already talked about. Here is another video you won't listen to because you are LAZY.

So, this is a fact. Redlining.

Another fact is that racism is not accepted in the US like it was back in those years and is actively rooted out.

Just because you are stuck in the 1950s at best, because you are a Puerto Rican who is so committed to PR independence that you moved to Mexico because your hard earned US income can get you very far there (fact) and who can't accept the vast majority of Puerto Ricans would rather integrate further with the US, doesn't mean you should deny reality.

You may hate the US all you want, yet the fact remains that millions of other Latin Americans vote with their feet and still prefer to live here, just like you prefer to live a comfortable life in Mexico thanks to the wealth you and your family accumulated in the US. The figures don't lie here.

I am going to eat now and come back and deal with more of your constant defensive propaganda mierda ideas.

Reality is kind of ugly in the USA.

But you will continue to believe in mierda forever. Life will teach you the reality you refuse to deal with.

Be prepared Wat0n. Because all the alcahuetismo is not going to work over a long period of time in a society in which you got to compete with a society that is tired of immigration. They want some good ole Americans. But they are not getting that the only people willing to get here are from Latin America and Asia. And they need to give up on demographic dominance. It is over. That fight is lost.

Reality is indeed ugly: Being in the tiny minority of Puerto Ricans who want to be independent hurts. I understand you resent that. But hey, don't worry: If the PR statehood bid fails, I won't be surprised if you end up getting what you want. If that happens, it won't be because of whatever happened 50 years ago or earlier. If that happens, it will be a foreseeable consequence of the decision by the US at large and will have been self-inflicted. And if Puerto Rico does become a state, you will have zero reasons to complain too.

The US has a proven track record of integrating immigrants as long as it lets them do so. It happened to the Germans, French, Irish, Italians, Jews, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and more recently with many immigrants from Asia as well - Asian Americans have largely caught up to Whites in most relevant indicators and have surpassed them in others. Latin Americans are also gradually integrating into the US, and the subsequent gradual close of socioeconomic gaps and social and cultural integration is already happening. I have found plenty of children of Latin American immigrants and also of Puerto Ricans who were born in the US mainland who don't speak Spanish at all. The process is neither easy nor short, but it does happen. If it's about history, the first riot in Chicago was due to local ordinances banning the sale of alcohol on Sundays that targeted German and Irish immigrants in 1855 yet they currently do just fine and the city nowadays throws a big party to celebrate St Patrick's. But this is the type of history you pretend does not exist because it doesn't confirm your precious narrative.

In the real world, societies and cultures are not immutable. They are dynamic, and if cultural interaction between 2 cultures is allowed then both cultures will change as they will homogenize. The US is a great example of that, and it has happened while keeping the most fundamental pillars of American institutions.

[Tainari88]

I think the same about your nonsense.

Your stuff boil down to "the other day, XXX happened to me" or "well, he doesn't like the US so he's good".

[b]You lie boldly. Lie some more. It is all toilet paper right now[/b]

And you do not pay attention to the fact that the US in 2023 is not the US in 1953. It's a rather different country, and a far less racist one too.
And the US improved the state of society by the Civil Rights movement. Who were they? Right wing conservatives? Yes or no. Answer the question you foolish man. Admit the truth for once in your denial existence. Who is in charge of transforming the USA in the sixties? Right wing conservatives or those radicals running around pressuring the hell out of the racist Jim Crow and all their racist conservative crap from hell? Can you admit that.....or the radical thing never happened in your distorted mind.

Another thing you don't truly pay attention to is to the fact that people from all walks of life and all races can be prejudiced. Or more precisely, you think all prejudice comes from white people and that everyone else is prejudiced because of them.

There you go again total lies when you can't get anything you are given for interpretation. The argument is not about white people are the only racist people on Earth. It is about the reason why Black people talking in the video posted as the OP feel that they are freer to be themselves in a foreign nation in this case Japan rather than the USA. What reasons did they give for that? Can you recall. You do a false equivalency where you say, black people can be prejudiced. That is not the point. The point is how institutions have kept basic human rights and civil rights from Black Americans for generations that affected them for a very long time. Why were white people protesting in Paris, London, and everywhere over George Floyd? Because they were identifying the institutional forms of racism that they saw in the authority of the states they lived in. Mainly ex Empires with colonized Africans in France, colonized people in England and the UK, and so on. Do you get that it has nothing to do with Blacks being able to discriminate against white people and it has to do with institutionalized racism played out in the way the state arrests and convicts Black people in the USA and in poverty neighborhoods in many countries? You can't get that? You got to lie instead. Go and write the lies about me. Go and tell the forum I am a racist against white people and I should be ousted out of her due to my racism against white people whom are victims of Black racism in Colorado. See how well that fucking lie from your bad defensive mechanisms turn out in this forum? That is your modus operandi. When I don't understand the theory I distort and lie and run. It is bad dude. Change it.

No, that's simply not true and pretends people are not responsible for overcoming their own prejudices.

People got to be responsible for their own bullshit thoughts. Like writing about lies. You refuse to accept that there was racism. There was organized pressure put on racist laws and racist institutions in the USA. PRESSURE. Protests, and screaming and petitions for change. Legislation. Pressure. It changed the USA. The lesson is that the racist shit does not change on its own. It never does. If something is wrong today in 2023, it can't be left without pressure. Or you will have Donald Trump back in power and claiming fraud and then pass laws saying Make America Great Again. Stop the Steal. I won. My fantasy is FACT. My feelings are truth. It is not about popular votes. IT is about my ideas of fantasy. That is what you are coping with when you think fantasy is truth. And truth is fantasy. History is about certain realities. If you can't agree on facts? You are in deep shit in politics.

I don't need you to teach me about Jewish history, and I don't care about your lectures to Holocaust victims.
No, you never give a damn about anything that does not fit your fantasy of what the USA government is about. You lie all the time when the facts just don't make your story fit your idea of fantasies. I do not give a shit about your opinions Wat0n. I think you are totally dishonest in every way. It is ugly.

You're also a hypocrite: You claim to fight against oppression yet you don't even live in the US, instead, you used the privilege of having earned American wages for a lifetime to live in a poorer country like Mexico and where the dollar can get you far with little effort. Many white American retirees do the same, but they don't usually claim to be resisting anything or anyone, and they sure as hell don't berate others for not doing the same.

The privilege I used? What the fuck are you talking about you foolish man? What privilege? I waws born in Puerto Rico where if you stay in Puerto Rico you can't vote for anything happening in the USA that effects that nation. At all. No votes that are valid. No reps and no senators. They drop some bombs on Puerto Rico. It gives our families cancer in the need to get ready to invade Iraq. The mothers die, the kids die, and they can't sue because we are not constitutionally guaranteed citizens. Why? Because the congress avoids dealing with that political hot potato. Where is the fucking privilege? Nothing is for free you foolish man! Puerto Rican men and women died in the thousands in US wars. Without the ability of voting for the President and the congress that sends them to die. Is that fair to you? It is not at all fair. Poverty is the norm for Puerto Ricans and stil is. That is why a lot of Puerto Ricans can't find good paying jobs in Puerto Rico. They graduate and follow the rules and can't find jobs. They got to leave. Where is the big advantage? My grandparents worked for low wages for generations for what? To be privileged? Who the fuck is privileged? YOU ARE? I left to Mexico because after trying to pay for my mother's cancer for her treatment because the US Navy used Vieques island in Puerto Rico as a garbage dump for depleted Uranium, she needed some help to get cured hopefully. Once I paid for the medical bills it did not save her. And after working his ass off his whole life for low pay my husband had a heart attack in 2017 and he needed to live in a place where he could be debt free and exist without that kind of economic pressure. I raised a child from social services that the white people did not want to raise because Black sons are trouble in the USA for the white people. The ones who love being generous right? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU ARROGANT COMEMIERDA. Privilege. You are a sellout with sellout values. You are full of lies all the time. No one gives you a free ride in capitalism in this world. Nothing is for free.

I am not some asskissing fool like you are.




Not really. American society obviously has its own flaws, just like any society.

For example, their obsession with race is definitely a flaw and as a good American you share it too. Another thing that might finally be beginning to change is their absurd dependence on cars.

But there are also good things about the American way of life, again, just like anywhere else. One thing I like is that people are generally more respectful of your personal life than in Latin America, and unwanted intrusions on it - like all patronizing as you are doing right now -, are far more likely to be pushed back on. The downside of it is that it also means it's harder to make friends or socialize in general, but as far as I'm concerned the upsides beat the downsides. It's purely a matter of personal preference.



I call bullshit. The problem with Black on Black violence in Chicago has to do to a large extent with organized crime, and it's not something it's happened only to them either. This is Chicago we're talking about, the city of Al Capone and indeed, the mafia represented a very similar problem at the time.

Why do some people join gangs anyway? Because they perceive getting into the drug trade is more profitable than abiding by the law and that they are unlikely to be caught. And they're probably right, drugs in general aren't going to be legalized anytime soon so drug trafficking will remain profitable, and no one is really willing to do whatever it takes to deal with the gang problem. Residents who have to deal with the problem will complain, but wouldn't like heavy handed police or harsher action in their communities both for historical reasons (racism) and also practical ones (it'd be even more dangerous to their safety). Non-residents don't have to deal with the problem either, and due to the cases of police brutality there is also no appetite for heavy handed action in general even after the recent crime increase (furthermore, Chicago is still safer nowadays than 20 or 30 years ago). Even politicians themselves don't see economic reasons to do so, since most of the gang activity happens outside the economic engines of the city anyway. No one wants to face the costs of doing anything about it and even if they did, it would at best be a temporary relief as long as drugs remain illegal. If currently existing gangs don't do it, new ones will form because someone else will have to sell to drug users.

This is exactly what happened with Al Capone during Prohibition, so it's not new. And it did not involve Black people back then.



I say Hispanics because I haven't too much contact with non-Hispanic Latin Americans like Brazilians or Haitians. I don't speak Portuguese or Creole, so I can't share any experiences.

Also, those guys were speaking from personal experience and generalizing.

Guy #1 was an Uber driver who was extorted by a Black female rider. She basically managed to take his phone and demanded $200 or else she'd call his wife and tell her she had enjoyed sucking his dick. He refused and she followed through, giving him a big problem to deal with at home.

Guy #2 should sound familiar to you: He said some African Americans told him to stop speaking Spanish, in his view "morenos" feel you're talking shit about them when they don't understand whatever some other people are saying.

In reality, most African Americans won't try to blackmail you and will probably not tell you to stick to English. Same goes for Whites and everyone else for that matter.



I explicitly said one shouldn't generalize stuff about people you don't know simply because of their race. Funnily enough, you do the same when it comes to talking about white people.

Further showing that many people do just that: Generalize about others without even speaking to them, because of their skin color.



Well, Benito Juarez admired the American system of government and tried to depersonalize Mexican institutions so no caudillos would emerge. Was he too innocent or ignorant about human behavior too?

Also, there are also Latin American countries that have never had an indigenous President. So what? Why do you berate the US for things that also happen in Latin America?



They don't care about assimilating now but they will down the line. If they really like Japan and want to stay for good, they probably do want to stop being seen as foreigners and treated as such. Like having people assume their command of Japanese is poor or that they can't use chopsticks because they don't look Japanese.

Or what, are you saying that just because one guy's name is Juan or Pedro those of us who live in the US should assume he only speaks Spanish? Have you considered this can also be seen as racist?

As for the mermaid stuff, I don't care too much but if the only contribution is to just change a character's race then I'd say they're not too creative. It's sad because there are plenty of myths and actual history from the non-Western world that could make for good films, and let Westerners learn about other cultures. Japan, in fact, does this really well, so well that manga sells more than traditional American comics.



Many do, actually. Specially in Latin America, it's common to blame Europeans and Americans for all our problems. You are also aware of this.

And again, I don't need you to teach me about Jewish history. You also have no idea about what many Jews feel about Europe or not, specially in Israel. Things are far, far more complicated and even within my own family they'll tell you Europe is not a good place to move to if you're Jewish and that you're way better off in the US.



I agree independent thinking is important. So when a Black woman tells you to get out of her neighborhood because the gangs will be coming out and shooting each other soon, is she being racist? Does she hate herself?

I don't buy that shit. Chileans will avoid dangerous neighborhoods in Chile just like everyone else. We don't need a white person to tell us to that.



No, those were definitely not leftist radicals who did that. It was most certainly a decision by American economic, political, social and intellectual elites, particularly those from the north.



Having laws in the book that had been praised by Hitler himself in Mein Kampf was seen as embarrassing, and rightly so.



I'm worried about stupidity, I'm sure the US government will do just fine but internal cohesion may not. The obsession with race and what divides people in this country trumps what Americans share, and that's definitely a bad thing. It makes it hard to reach broad agreements that allow for a more inclusive country and specially a more inclusive political system.

I am also worried about the spread of the current American postmodern racial identity politics abroad, we rejected a racist Chilean Constitution inspired by people who think like you last year but that threat is most definitely not gone. And just like your stupid politics has spread to the Chilean left (and the left in Latin America and Europe), the Chilean right is copying Trump with regards to immigration (and may start with the rest too), just as the Latin American and European right has. That is, there is a similar process that's happening outside the US too.

In reality, American politics and culture has an influence that goes well beyond its borders and that includes both the good and the bad things. Nowadays, it includes specially the bad things.

At last, what makes you believe I can't have access to those things in due time? I may be on a work visa now, but I will be able to apply for a Green Card less than 3 years from now. Then, if I get it, I will be able to apply for citizenship down the line if I want to. I have access to a better quality of life than in Chile as well, despite all the problems the US has to deal with (from its politics, to its urbanism, to its healthcare system). Millions of other Latin Americans share my assessment too, judging by the migratory flows to and from Latin America.

Look, you are really really stretching shit to the maximum degree Wat0n. I don't care about what you think is the issue with the high quality of life compared to Latin America. The reality is the USA is not able to take all of Latin America's poverty ON. They can't. They are only interested in perpetuating the poverty in Latin America to serve their own elitist people in the USA that are about greed and growing the inequality deal that I posted above.

I want really stability for that region. Not having people running with bags packed and saying how it is better for them. The majority will never have enough money to move the hell out of their nations. Period.

My concern is creating stability by meeting human needs and keeping people in their own nations. Not having to leave to make a living or have a decent standard of living.

You are into climbing in the USA because it is the richest nation in the New World. It is growing in inequality, Once it hits extreme inequality? Which it will soon in about one or two more generations if nothing is done to ameliorate it? You will be seeing the same problems that happen in other societies happening in the USA too. Why? Because we are all the same species and if we get the same conditions of life we react the same way. And high inequality means protests, burning shit in the streets, corruption and confrontation and economic meltdowns. Guaranteed.

You think the USA is the exception? No. Because all of us are humans. All of us. And humans behave like humans. Not martians.

That is reality.

Mucha mierda hablas.

[Rancid]

Get English people from England or Germany. Only snow white people with PhD's from Oxford allowed. Lol.

Oh, fuck, none of the candidates out there are pure English or German or Dutch or whatever stock. The math is about how many people on Earth are white?

On linkedin you always have these morons that complain about things like "Why don't we hire more Americans!". My response is always two part.

1. Many of these non-white people I'm hiring are in fact, Americans.
2. Easily like 70% of the job applications I see when I'm hiring are foreign born applicants (many are green card holders or citizens, but not born here, and not white).

I agree, these people need ot get use to it. America is truly becoming the melting pot people loved to claim when it wasn't.

Yes, that brown kid with Indian born parents I just gave an internship to... he's an American too.

USA! USA! USA!

[Tainari88]

:lol:

On linkedin you always have these morons that complain about things like "Why don't we hire more Americans!". My response is always two part.

1. Many of these non-white people I'm hiring are in fact, Americans.
2. Easily like 70% of the job applications I see when I'm hiring are foreign born applicants (many are green card holders or citizens, but not born here, and not white).

I agree, these people need ot get use to it. America is truly becoming the melting pot people loved to claim when it wasn't.

Yes, that brown kid with Indian born parents I just gave an internship to... he's an American too.

USA! USA! USA!

Texas. Your state. It never had racism in its history. It just was on the side of the confederates during the American Civil war. Racism doesn't happen. Lol.

Ted Cruz. He is a guy you love....you Rancid making a purple state blue. You bad man.

I am going to a movie and a pizza it is Friday.

Forget about some denial shit. I am sick of denials. Accept the responsibility and change the system. Because if you don't?

You are going to hear this asshole president another four years next year. Lol.

[Rancid]

I am going to a movie and a pizza it is Friday.

Me too! We are doing the movie at home though, and I'm also having beer.

[wat0n]

You lie boldly. Lie some more. It is all toilet paper right now

No. You said you preferred to learn about real world experiences, that's exactly how they look like.

Your support for Bukele is solely due to the fact the US doesn't like him. I am pretty sure you'd hate him if he was POTUS instead of President of El Salvador.

And the US improved the state of society by the Civil Rights movement. Who were they? Right wing conservatives? Yes or no. Answer the question you foolish man. Admit the truth for once in your denial existence. Who is in charge of transforming the USA in the sixties? Right wing conservatives or those radicals running around pressuring the hell out of the racist Jim Crow and all their racist conservative crap from hell? Can you admit that.....or the radical thing never happened in your distorted mind.

The radical liberals but also moderates of the time, for sure, but nowadays the ones who want to preserve the principle that the US should be colorblind are the moderates (both conservative and liberal).

Eisenhower did not hesitate to enforce school desegregation in Little Rock. You could perhaps ask yourself why or, if you want, you can listen to him directly:

Was Eisenhower a radical?

Note this was long before protests against racism became violent. In fact, political violence was started by the hardline conservatives (I'm simply limiting myself to pointing out a historical fact).

There you go again total lies when you can't get anything you are given for interpretation. The argument is not about white people are the only racist people on Earth. It is about the reason why Black people talking in the video posted as the OP feel that they are freer to be themselves in a foreign nation in this case Japan rather than the USA. What reasons did they give for that? Can you recall. You do a false equivalency where you say, black people can be prejudiced. That is not the point. The point is how institutions have kept basic human rights and civil rights from Black Americans for generations that affected them for a very long time. Why were white people protesting in Paris, London, and everywhere over George Floyd? Because they were identifying the institutional forms of racism that they saw in the authority of the states they lived in. Mainly ex Empires with colonized Africans in France, colonized people in England and the UK, and so on. Do you get that it has nothing to do with Blacks being able to discriminate against white people and it has to do with institutionalized racism played out in the way the state arrests and convicts Black people in the USA and in poverty neighborhoods in many countries? You can't get that? You got to lie instead. Go and write the lies about me. Go and tell the forum I am a racist against white people and I should be ousted out of her due to my racism against white people whom are victims of Black racism in Colorado. See how well that fucking lie from your bad defensive mechanisms turn out in this forum? That is your modus operandi. When I don't understand the theory I distort and lie and run. It is bad dude. Change it.

And what I'm saying is that, yes, they feel safe in Japan and not just due to the racism in the US but also because Japan is safer than any Western country, obviously including the US, so it's unlikely they'll have any experiences with Japanese cops be they good or bad (although there are always stories of foreigners with bad experiences with Japanese police).

And more importantly, that they have yet to notice they will always be seen as foreign, and will always be treated as such. It doesn't matter how long they stay or how well they conform to Japanese social norms. This is not the case in the US, Canada and the other countries in the American continent where you can integrate well enough that most people won't even tell you are from abroad unless you tell them.

Get it?

The privilege I used? What the fuck are you talking about you foolish man? What privilege? I waws born in Puerto Rico where if you stay in Puerto Rico you can't vote for anything happening in the USA that effects that nation. At all. No votes that are valid. No reps and no senators. They drop some bombs on Puerto Rico. It gives our families cancer in the need to get ready to invade Iraq. The mothers die, the kids die, and they can't sue because we are not constitutionally guaranteed citizens. Why? Because the congress avoids dealing with that political hot potato. Where is the fucking privilege? Nothing is for free you foolish man! Puerto Rican men and women died in the thousands in US wars. Without the ability of voting for the President and the congress that sends them to die. Is that fair to you? It is not at all fair. Poverty is the norm for Puerto Ricans and stil is. That is why a lot of Puerto Ricans can't find good paying jobs in Puerto Rico. They graduate and follow the rules and can't find jobs. They got to leave. Where is the big advantage? My grandparents worked for low wages for generations for what? To be privileged? Who the fuck is privileged? YOU ARE? I left to Mexico because after trying to pay for my mother's cancer for her treatment because the US Navy used Vieques island in Puerto Rico as a garbage dump for depleted Uranium, she needed some help to get cured hopefully. Once I paid for the medical bills it did not save her. And after working his ass off his whole life for low pay my husband had a heart attack in 2017 and he needed to live in a place where he could be debt free and exist without that kind of economic pressure. I raised a child from social services that the white people did not want to raise because Black sons are trouble in the USA for the white people. The ones who love being generous right? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU ARROGANT COMEMIERDA. Privilege. You are a sellout with sellout values. You are full of lies all the time. No one gives you a free ride in capitalism in this world. Nothing is for free.

I am not some asskissing fool like you are.

Puerto Ricans can work freely anywhere in the US and earn American wages, something even I can't do. Most Mexicans can't either, those opportunities are out of their reach.

You believe it's not a privilege just like those lower and middle class whites who vote for Trump and hate progressives who go on berating them for their white privilege don't. And in the US they are not privileged, they are not upper class at all, but the moment they move to poorer and cheaper countries where they can access an upper class living standard by simply relying on their savings, they definitely are.

I find it odd that you don't realize that the fact most of your neighbors in Mérida have never had the access to the jobs you worked in the US simply because you are a citizen by birth is a form of privilege. You're not one of those 20-something year old upper class sheltered progressives who live in gated communities who have no grasp of how poorer people live.

Look, you are really really stretching shit to the maximum degree Wat0n. I don't care about what you think is the issue with the high quality of life compared to Latin America. The reality is the USA is not able to take all of Latin America's poverty ON. They can't. They are only interested in perpetuating the poverty in Latin America to serve their own elitist people in the USA that are about greed and growing the inequality deal that I posted above.

I want really stability for that region. Not having people running with bags packed and saying how it is better for them. The majority will never have enough money to move the hell out of their nations. Period.

My concern is creating stability by meeting human needs and keeping people in their own nations. Not having to leave to make a living or have a decent standard of living.

You are into climbing in the USA because it is the richest nation in the New World. It is growing in inequality, Once it hits extreme inequality? Which it will soon in about one or two more generations if nothing is done to ameliorate it? You will be seeing the same problems that happen in other societies happening in the USA too. Why? Because we are all the same species and if we get the same conditions of life we react the same way. And high inequality means protests, burning shit in the streets, corruption and confrontation and economic meltdowns. Guaranteed.

You think the USA is the exception? No. Because all of us are humans. All of us. And humans behave like humans. Not martians.

That is reality.

Mucha mierda hablas.

I doubt the US wants to keep Latin America poor, it would be far better for American businesses to have a Mexico and Latin America that are as rich as Canada is than the current status quo. Yes, they would lose the cheap labor but the larger consumer markets for American products outweigh that (even more so with the upcoming automation of several jobs), and it is very likely the US would enjoy much better foreign relations with Latin American countries too (like those between the US and Canada).

If Latin America is both poorer and also more unequal than the US it is because of the policies and institutions across Latin America. Public Mexican universities are free for all, but tell me, which Mexicans attend them? Are they more likely to be poor or to be rich? Who benefits more from these government resources and what does it mean for inequality?

[ckaihatsu]

I would also imagine that the African Americans who go to Japan in the first place are probably much more well-behaved than just the average African Americans. So it is not really a representative sample.

*Or* it's 'brain drain'.

(I saw one of the following videos on blacks from the U.S. moving to Rwanda):

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +to+rwanda

[ckaihatsu]

Racism in Germany | DW Documentary

[wat0n]

@ckaihatsu have you ever been to Japan?

[Tainari88]

Interesting video of a Black American man in Japan:

[ckaihatsu]

Racism in Germany | DW Documentary

[ckaihatsu]

@ckaihatsu have you ever been to Japan?

I'll *pass* -- I'm not on this political discussion board for light airy personal conversations.

I'll second *this* sentiment:

You do a false equivalency where you say, black people can be prejudiced. That is not the point. The point is how institutions have kept basic human rights and civil rights from Black Americans for generations that affected them for a very long time.

[wat0n]

I'll *pass* -- I'm not on this political discussion board for light airy personal conversations.

I'll second *this* sentiment:

Right, you are here to post silly cryptic charts.

[ckaihatsu]

Right, you are here to post silly cryptic charts.

No, I'm saying that I agree with Tainari's assessment that you would rather see 'race' as being *interpersonal*, about *prejudice*, rather than it being *historical* and *systemic* in nature.

The Climate Justice Committee condemns the scapegoating of indigenous people by city officials who are trying to divert attention away from the ongoing poisoning of the East Phillips neighborhood.

https://fightbacknews.us1.list-manage.c ... de79fb44fe

[wat0n]

No, I'm saying that I agree with Tainari's assessment that you would rather see 'race' as being *interpersonal*, about *prejudice*, rather than it being *historical* and *systemic* in nature.

Because that's exactly what racism is about, prejudice and interpersonal relations. This is what can and indeed sometimes does make racism become institutionalized, not the other way around.

[Pants-of-dog]

Many conservatives like to define racism solely as subjective feelings and beliefs. This allows them to ignore systemic racism, institutional racism, the toxic effects of colour blindness, internalized racism, and subconscious racism.

It is also a good way for them to think of themselves as not racist, since they do not feel or believe racist things. Instead, they support those policies that support all these other forms of racism.

Defining racism as solely feels also dovetails with their ahistorical belief that we are all operating on a level playing field, since we can all have those feels.

[Tainari88]

Because that's exactly what racism is about, prejudice and interpersonal relations. This is what can and indeed sometimes does make racism become institutionalized, not the other way around.

That is not what racism is Wat0n. Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsiz(ə)m/
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."a program to combat racism"
Similar:

the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
"theories of racism"

This means Wat0n that there has to be some form of power relationship that is uneven or sustained by a structure or institution in society. It is not what you think it means at all.

What makes people marginalized and a minority? In the USA? There is the thing. To believe that different races possess characteristics, abilities and or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior and superior to one another.

That is the issue. Why do you constantly think Latin American societies are inferior to the USA one? Because you think that if a society is prosperous, firs world, modern and successful it must have superior characteristics to the ones who are living in poverty or who are not as successful materially. You do not look for systemic factors playing a role in who has more power to invest or borrow, or any logical reasons for the discrepancies. You make statements about culture or behavior in that culture that makes it less economically prosperous and you equate it with their own failures. It must be they are not as intelligent, superior or this or that to the successful society. You sound like a racist when you do that Wat0n. You really do.

I do not find Latin American culture inferior in the least. I never have. But I do think how the banking system works and how certain nations are structured within the international capitalist system that there are nations deliberately impeded in becoming developed. There is a logic behind that underdevelopment. It is not about inferior or superior cultures. It is about how economic power is brokered and distributed. Two very different things.

African Americans in the past were enslaved and considered property for a long time simply because they needed to be exploited by a system that was supported through laws and institutions in order for the slaveholding class and the banks and the legislative and judicial and executive branches of government to be able to gain economically. That is obvious. It has nothing to do with if Africans are dumber and made to lose and made to be slaves. It was systemic. If you can not understand that at all Wat0n? Then there is nothing further for you to be able to contribute is there?

[ckaihatsu]

Because that's exactly what racism is about, prejudice and interpersonal relations. This is what can and indeed sometimes does make racism become institutionalized, not the other way around.

No, racism really *isn't* bottom-up, as you're positing -- it's *top-down*.


inductive vs. deductive reasoning

Spoiler: show

[wat0n]

That is not what racism is Wat0n. Here is the definition of racism:
rac·ism
/ˈrāˌsiz(ə)m/
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."a program to combat racism"
Similar:

the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
"theories of racism"

This means Wat0n that there has to be some form of power relationship that is uneven or sustained by a structure or institution in society. It is not what you think it means at all.

No. Even your definition says prejudice can be held by an individual "against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group". It is typically held against a marginalized minority but it doesn't have to.

And there are of course examples where a minority that is not marginalized still deals with racism, and sometimes ends up being destroyed by it.

What makes people marginalized and a minority? In the USA? There is the thing. To believe that different races possess characteristics, abilities and or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior and superior to one another.

For some, perhaps. But it's most definitely not the only reason of why marginalization exists.

Trailer park white trash is not part of a racial minority and I don't think most people in the US would say their situation is due to their race. Yet they are most definitely marginalized. The very term "white trash" itself makes it clear they're marginalized.

Or are you going to say these guys here are not living in the margins of society?



(The whole article, too, feels like a form of "social tourism", as if the photographer had gone to some isolated community even though it's in a touristy place - Sonoma, CA).

That is the issue. Why do you constantly think Latin American societies are inferior to the USA one? Because you think that if a society is prosperous, firs world, modern and successful it must have superior characteristics to the ones who are living in poverty or who are not as successful materially. You do not look for systemic factors playing a role in who has more power to invest or borrow, or any logical reasons for the discrepancies. You make statements about culture or behavior in that culture that makes it less economically prosperous and you equate it with their own failures. It must be they are not as intelligent, superior or this or that to the successful society. You sound like a racist when you do that Wat0n. You really do.

This is quite evidently a straw man.

It is not so much about culture but institutions why the US is richer than Latin America. And it's less unequal, too.

I do not find Latin American culture inferior in the least. I never have.

It has pros and cons relative to American culture.

But I do think how the banking system works and how certain nations are structured within the international capitalist system that there are nations deliberately impeded in becoming developed. There is a logic behind that underdevelopment. It is not about inferior or superior cultures. It is about how economic power is brokered and distributed. Two very different things.

No one but Latin America itself is impeding its economic growth.

If anything, the rest of the world and specially the US would very much prefer if Latin America was more economically developed and prosperous.

African Americans in the past were enslaved and considered property for a long time simply because they needed to be exploited by a system that was supported through laws and institutions in order for the slaveholding class and the banks and the legislative and judicial and executive branches of government to be able to gain economically. That is obvious. It has nothing to do with if Africans are dumber and made to lose and made to be slaves. It was systemic. If you can not understand that at all Wat0n? Then there is nothing further for you to be able to contribute is there?

Did I ever say African Americans are dumber?

In the past, indeed, they were enslaved and not considered to be actual persons. And after they were finally recognized as persons, they were left under a legal second class status until the 1960s.

Nowadays, they are still dealing with the consequences of that discrimination but it is simply not true that this is applicable to all African Americans (it definitely does not apply to those who are part of the American upper and upper middle classes) or that there are no issues originating within some of their communities, which overlap to a great deal with those affecting poor white people like those guys above.

In both there is abandonment by the rest of society, both have to deal with drug addiction, both also need to deal with poor access to public services and lack of opportunity, you can also find plenty of dysfunctional families in both, and yes in both there are also those who are just unwilling to do the sacrifices necessary to leave their current condition or who expect the rest of society to do it for them. Just like the poor everywhere for that matter, be it the US, Latin America, Europe, Asia or wherever.

None of this should be surprising for anyone claiming to be a socialist.

No, racism really *isn't* bottom-up, as you're positing -- it's *top-down*.

Racism is definitely bottom up. In particular, appealing to race (and by extension racial discrimination) can help with the internal cohesion of those members of the community who are discriminating by race. Cohesion, too, is one major reason why identity politics exists in the first place. As such, the racism held by individuals can and does translate into racism by the institutions. Institutions are not managed by robots either.

Why else do you think racism doesn't seem to go away even when the elites actively try to root it out? Racism remains even in so called socialist "paradises" like Cuba, and it's not because there is no genuine desire by the ideological Cuban Marxists to eliminate it but simply that racism doesn't go away because they want it to. The US isn't "special" or "exceptional" in this regard.