"Macedonia" and Greece.What is really going on ? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1913816
Hi.
I'm greek and i would like to start a topic about that matter.
Recently the U.S.A. asked as to "recognize" a country as "Macedonia",so it can join N.A.T.O.
But we said "no".
But from what i see,i think people around the world don't really know what is going on and why we disagree.
Let me tell you some facts,and our point of view.
We all know from history books that "macedonians" are an ancient greek tribe.
Since the Roman empire,there is a province named "macedonia",were greek macedonians live.
You all also know a country with the name "Yougoslavia".
Yougoslavia was a big country that when the soviet union died,broke to small pieces.
Some of those pieces are known as "Serba", "Montenegro" etc..
One of those pieces,were a Yougoslavian province originally named
"Vardarska".
So after Yougoslavia was splitted at pieces,Vardarska was left alone.
All of a sudden,vardarskian named themselves "macedonians" no matter that the name was already in use. <for more than 2000 years ago>.
So these people now claim that they are macedonians.
But they don't say that they are greek macedonians.
They invented a fake story,that macedonians are a completely different nation!
And their government is teaching young children that greeks are evil people who made war against them <what?>,that they stole their land <what the ?> and that we are also bad because we don't recognize them as macedonians.
But it's not only that!
Right now they have a nationalistic government that is saying that "macedonians" are superior humans,and that black people and asians are "lesser humans".
They say that white men are superior than other races,and that above them all,are the "macedonians".
So it is clear that we have to do with a nationalistic/racistic government,elected by people....
Why is everyone acts like nothing is wrong ?
We have a government with hitler's ideology at Europe and none seems to care.
And after all that the U.S.A. are asking as to recognize the usurpators as ourselves...
Isn't that rediculous ?


Oh !
And check that socking propaganda video that is playing at Vardarska's <fyrom> national t.v. network made by their neonazi pseudomacedonian government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ITEdiSBl3Y&feature=related
User avatar
By noemon
#1914407
Hello there and welcome. Am Greek as well, this topic has been discussed to death, the below are just some of the conversations, discussing the issue at length, from a) the politico-diplomatic perspective, b) ethnopolitical perspective, c) historical perspective(ancient, medieval and modern), and d) mediological perspective.

viewtopic.php?p=1514319#p1514319
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93689
viewtopic.php?p=1398855#p1398855
viewtopic.php?p=1366545#p1366545
viewtopic.php?p=1708924#p1708924

Enjoy your stay.
By Spotacus
#1914410
Why not call the country North Macedonia and the Greek Provence South Macedonia. Failing that invade.
User avatar
By noemon
#1914413
Its been proposed by Greece, though without re-naming the Greek part to South Macedonia. That implies that the 2 were united and that there is one geopolitical macedonian continuum, when that was never the case.

I personally reject that offer and see this proposal as Greek diplomatic stupidity.
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By Suska
#1914422
What I don't understand is, given the chance to name their nation whatever they wanted to, they didn't call themselves "Awesomia" or "Kickassistan" ..? :eh: Seriously, if Missouri ever secedes we need to change the name to "Autonomous Republic of Jedi Knights" or "let's Go Fishing Land" or something... why are people so unimaginative?
By Aekos
#1914494
Failing that invade.


Really? Over a name :eh:?

I think FYROM and Greece need to build up better relations. As I'd like to see A Greco-Serbian Union one day, we need FYROM to make that happen.
By Real G
#1914731
@ Suska :
Because the name is already taken,and it's not only the name they want.
They want us to recognize as macedonians,and if we do that,they will use it to ask more things.
Don't forget that they are usurpators.
They demand to give them land,and they want to make use of the name for financial profit.
One of Greece's biggest economy supporter is turism.
And people are coming from all around the world to see ancient statues of Alexander etc.
It's not just the name after all.
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1914994
One of those pieces,were a Yougoslavian province originally named
"Vardarska".


In fact, in Yugoslavia, that southern part of the country was called:"Makedonija"...just for truth to be said....
User avatar
By noemon
#1915072
In the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was called Vardarska Banovina.

Tito renamed it Makedonija in 1944, he also sent a small army to participate in the Greek civil war on the side of the communists, in exchange for Greek Macedonia.

Regarding "self-determination", the Republik Deutschösterreich(German Austria), was not allowed to keep its name by the international community, because of possible future scenarios it implied.

And the one and only independence movement of Skopjians was officially called Slavjanomakedonski Narodno Osloboditelen Front (Slavomacedonian Liberation Front), Greece is game for that name, and it is the only name that has the slightest historical basis and encompasses their struggle; who would have thought they would actually reject the only name that exists in their historical records, during the negotiations.
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By Vladimir
#1915117
again :eek: I need to call Doomhammer here.

Isn't that rediculous ?

No, you have no business in what a sovereign country names itself and over its internal affairs.
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By noemon
#1915120
We have every business, if anybody they have no business stealing a name that was already in official usage, interfering militarily in our civil war and propagandizing revisionist history, both internally(.ie in Greece via their party, Rainbow and externally via the Skopjian Academy of science).

We have every business when that Yugoslav actions(incl. the name) frown on our own internal and external affairs. They do not exist in a vacuum, and there is no such "universal right" of such bollocks apologists make up.

And prohibiting countries from using whatever name they want, is justified internationally as the German-Austria case demonstrates.
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By Vladimir
#1915127
A sovereign country can name itself however it likes, and you have no business interfering. It can call itself "Greece" or "Russia" for all you or I should care.
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By noemon
#1915131
Yes she can as much as I(and other countries) have a right to not recognize her.
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By Vladimir
#1915135
I don't think such formalism makes the slightest difference in reality :lol: Or perhaps it does by making things a little more difficult.
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By noemon
#1915138
Your argument applies to Greeks as much as it applies to Skopjians, that is your argument is redundant and moot.

Both Greeks and Skopjians have a right to do what they do. So this is not a criterion for what others should and can do.

No sane person should legitimize a revisionist project that appropriates everything foreign and which is irredentist right from its inception.
Last edited by noemon on 23 May 2009 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
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By Vladimir
#1915142
That's because I am trolling and I think that both sides are being retarded :lol:
User avatar
By noemon
#1915144
No sane person should legitimize a revisionist project that appropriates everything foreign and which is irredentist right from its inception.

And "retarded", are only those who believe in(and apologize for) such revisionist and quite ridiculous and retarded indeed projects.

Putting them both on the same scale is apologetics 101.
User avatar
By Vladimir
#1915148
No sane person should legitimize a revisionist project that appropriates everything foreign and which is irredentist right from its inception.

If they want to "appropriate" something foreign, why not? Is it harming anyone?

Putting them both on the same scale is apologetics 101.

I am not versed in the nuances (and don't want to be) but even if they were wrong in the first place why make it worse by engaging in pointless formalisms?
User avatar
By noemon
#1915150
If they want to "appropriate" something foreign, why not? Is it harming anyone?


Yes it is harming our interests, political, economical, ethnic and historical. And we have every right to not recognize them ever, just like they have the right to stick to the name.

I am not versed in the nuances (and don't want to be) but even if they were wrong in the first place why make it worse by engaging in pointless formalisms?


If they are wrong, why make it worse for the one who is not wrong? :hmm:
User avatar
By Independent_Srpska
#1915151
In the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was called Vardarska Banovina


Yes, that's true. Though, I am not sure whether the borders of Vardarska Banovina corresponded to the later Yugoslav Socialistic Republic of Makedonija which became an independent state.

However, that's an excellent period (1929-1939) for pissing on the argument of the "continuity" of the banana state and unnatural NATO creation called Bosnia and Hercegovina.

Tito renamed it Makedonija in 1944, he also sent a small army to participate in the Greek civil war on the side of the communists, in exchange for Greek Macedonia.


I know. Tito was an asshole to the most of traditional Serb allies ..


Let me add - I find really stupid the latest decision of Skopje authorities to build a huge monument of Alexandar the Great in Skoplje....
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