It is Northern Macedonia after all? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14924186
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Savage Bro. Savage.

As someone who is a good bit Slavic, this gives me the giggles all over.

I think there is also a hyper-secularist and multi-culturalist arrogance that seeks to belittle the "less-enlightened" peoples of eastern Europe and Greece which is common among many who have thrown their lot in with Brussels.


It is not the Brusselian lot per se, but a lot of reconditioned racists are now throwing their racism towards the Slavs, Balkans, Greeks even Italians and others because they can no longer do that with Arabs and Black people. It is simply a transfer, the same kind of transfer that Atlantis has with the EU, he considers himself as speaking in its name even in relation to other EU members just like he did in the post I quoted him.
#14924250
Atlantis wrote:@noemon, if I were a German ultra-nationalist, I would be trying hard to destroy the EU and would join the good folks of Pofo to denigrate the EU by every means possible. Yet among the thousands of comments I posted to the forum you won't find a single post defending German nationalism, or any other form of nationalism, and there is no other member who actually defends the EU.

That just goes to show what kind of mindless hatred you are spreading.

The Balkan is a troubled place. Your bombastic ultra-nationalism is a good demonstration of that fact. Your name dispute is totally absurd to anybody outside the Balkans. Just like Belgians have no problem with Luxembourg, most people in this world will look on in bewilderment at the crazy hatred that you people are so desperate to cultivate.

I will let you stew in your own hatred because nobody of any sense would want anything to do with that.


The Balkans is not troubled place at all , as long as it is left alone by western occupiers (read it: Germans, Austrians,Brits, Americans ) and Turks.

Regarding the FYRM name issue , you simply can’t comprehend the importance of the situation for Greeks. I can only explain it by your lack of knowledge and empathy. IMHO Greeks allowing name Northern Macedonia will be more than generous to their neighbors.

As explained to you , this attempt of identity theft happened only in 1946 for practical reason , you would understand it if I put it like “Drag nach süden (port Thessaloniki)”. Any “drag nach” leads inevitably to loss of lives, you would know of course.
So, in 1944/1946 people who never thought of themselves as Macedonians got imposed this term by communists.....50 years later you have monuments, streets , airports named by Greek heroes. What would happen in next 50 years?

Do you need better examples than Bosnia and Herzegovina or Kosovo to understand what can be done only in 50 years and what “identity theft” supported by ignorant NATO puppets can lead to?
#14924263
Independent_Srpska wrote:The Balkans is not troubled place at all , as long as it is left alone by western occupiers (read it: Germans, Austrians,Brits, Americans ) and Turks.

It's only the Russians who should meddle with it, huh? :lol:

Also, how is it not a troubled place at all if even issues like that can have utmost importance?
#14924264
There's always one ...

Macedonia and Greece: Backlash over name deal

Macedonia's president is refusing to sign an historic deal agreed with Greece to change his country's name, saying it violates the constitution.

"My position is final and I will not yield to any pressure, blackmail or threats," Gjorge Ivanov declared.
...
So, is this a U-turn by Macedonia?
No - it's down to a disagreement between the president and Prime Minister Zoran Zaev, who struck the deal with his Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras.

The dissent comes from President Ivanov, who is strongly connected to the nationalist VMRO-DPMNE party that was forced from power in 2017. He has the power to veto the deal - but not indefinitely.

The foreign ministers of Macedonia and Greece are expected to sign the accord this weekend. Macedonia's parliament will then vote on whether to approve it.

If it votes in favour, the president can refuse to sign it off - which would send it back to parliament for a second vote. If it passed again, Mr Ivanov would be obliged to approve the legislation.

Mr Zaev's government needs a two-thirds majority to get the deal through parliament. However, it can't secure that without the opposition VMRO-DPMNE party, which won't support it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44475192

It seems a good solution to me. "FYR Macedonia" always sounded ridiculous - if Prince couldn't carry "formerly known as ..." off, there's no way a country can. But this gives them 'Macedonian' in the name (and they'll get to use it without a qualification a lot, informally, just like (South) Korea), while Greece can point out it has many important parts of "Macedonia". But there's always some conservative nationalist shouting a spittle-flecked "Never!".
#14924266
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:It seems a good solution to me. "FYR Macedonia" always sounded ridiculous - if Prince couldn't carry "formerly known as ..." off, there's no way a country can. But this gives them 'Macedonian' in the name (and they'll get to use it without a qualification a lot, informally, just like (South) Korea), while Greece can point out it has many important parts of "Macedonia". But there's always some conservative nationalist shouting a spittle-flecked "Never!".

It's a perfect solution indeed. If Northern Macedonians want to be full Macedonians, they have to get back Southern Macedonia (?) from Greeks who will always emphasize they still have lots of Macedonia. :lol:
#14924267
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:There's always one ...

It seems a good solution to me. "FYR Macedonia" always sounded ridiculous


For the record, FYR Macedonia is an appellation(not a name) that was imposed by the UN so that the new country can join it in 1992 pending resolution. Greece never recognised that name and did not suggest it.

All things considered I think it is a good solution, it is quite honourable for both countries as Greece gets its 2 main points:

a) a distinguishing word to separate the 2 Macedonias even though arguably a better one could have been found (.ie one that does not imply North Macedonia is part of a greater Macedonia), possibly New Macedonia or Slavic Macedonia would have been better.
b) a clear commitment to seize and desist the historical propaganda and appropriation

And Skopje gets its 2 main points:

The recognition of the Macedonian nation and language. As part of the Slavic family but that is not a retreat in anyway but factual reality.

Beren wrote: from Greeks who will always emphasize they still have lots of Macedonia.


The region of Macedonia as it was in the antiquity lies entirely inside Greece.
#14924271
Beren wrote:It's only the Russians who should meddle with it, huh? :lol:

Also, how is it not a troubled place at all if even issues like that can have utmost importance?


"Issues like that"?!

Well, mate, for way less important issue you tailed your Austrian puppeteer into the WW1 and caused millions of deaths.
Really troubled place is in the heads of western greedy political leaders.
#14924278
Independent_Srpska wrote:"Issues like that"?!


Apparently preventing the Turkish diaspora in Austria from its own religious freedom is a bigger issue for Beren. :lol:
#14924283
Independent_Srpska wrote:"Issues like that"?!

Well, mate, for way less important issue you tailed your Austrian puppeteer into the WW1 and caused millions of deaths.
Really troubled place is in the heads of western greedy political leaders.

That is rather a simplistic interpretation of how and why WWI started, which is supposed to be a petit insult I guess. That is exactly I'm talking about, the Balkans is a fucked up place inhabited by people insulting each other on a national basis all the time and ready to kill each other for whatever bullshit reason anytime.
#14924284
Beren wrote:That is rather a simplistic interpretation of how and why WWI started, which is supposed to be a petit insult I guess. That is exactly I'm talking about, the Balkans is a fucked up place inhabited by people insulting each other on a national basis all the time and ready to kill each other for whatever bullshit reason anytime.


That is the whole world but the irony here is that you and certain others are the ones doing it here. Have you contributed anything other than smugness in this thread? That is a serious question.
#14924286
noemon wrote:Apparently preventing the Turkish diaspora in Austria from its own religious freedom is a bigger issue for Beren. :lol:

Erdogan's plotting in Europe is a real issue indeed, whereas this name issue is just a typical Balkanic bullshit people like Independent_Srpska and you indulge in.
#14924291
Beren wrote:Erdogan's plotting in Europe is a real issue indeed, whereas this name issue is just a typical Balkanic bullshit people like Independent_Srpska and you indulge in.


Oh so you 're actually serious. Doubling down! You believe that Turkish diaspora worshipping in its mosques is a bigger issue than communists creating new nations, invading their neighbours and teaching their people a whole bunch of nonsense. :lol: So you believe that Turkish people in Europe are terrorists and not that Austria's new government like Hungary's is merely pathetic populists trying to cash in the anti-Islamic fervour?

Your problem is with the left-wing Tsipras who took a brave decision to become friends with a country whose reason for existence is to claim chunks of his country. Brave guy ignores huge political cost for the promotion of peace vs populist guy who sows seeds of hatred for personal benefit. Get a grip on yourself before you lose your bearings. This is more embarrassing than your earlier nonsense about Italy parroting supremacist German propaganda.

I am beginning to think that you only get a stream of German-Austrian news and that you are merely parroting them in the hope that you too will one day become a "civilised European".

Funny that you are trying to tell to a Greek and Serbian [petty Balkan nationalist] about the dangers of Erdogan and Turkish expansionism and that they are not as outraged as they should be! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Image
#14924297
noemon wrote:I am beginning to think that you only get a stream of German-Austrian news and that you are merely parroting them in the hope that you too will one day become a "civilised European".

I don't get a stream of German-Austrian news, however, I'm getting tired of all the dumbness flooding the world actually. Where are these ideas swarming out from and spreading everywhere and infecting people's minds like viruses? Now if you don't fall into line then you must be parroting German-Austrian or establishment propaganda.
Last edited by Beren on 14 Jun 2018 02:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14924318
Beren wrote:I don't get a stream of German-Austrian news, however, I'm getting tired of all the dumbness flooding the world actually. Where are these ideas swarming out from and spreading everywhere and infecting people's minds like viruses? Now if you don't fall into line then you must be parroting German-Austrian or establishment propaganda.


Serious question mate, what is your point? That Austria is right to remove the right of its Turkish minority to worship in their own mosques while Greece was wrong to come to this agreement with Skopje? I really don't get it. You are calling Greece petty, while you are cheerleading far more petty stuff from a supposedly "civilised European" country who is facing a far smaller danger(what will the Austrian Turks do in Austria?) than an adjacent fake ultra-nationalism into eternity that openly undermines the sovereignty of the country.
#14924358
Beren wrote:That is rather a simplistic interpretation of how and why WWI started, which is supposed to be a petit insult I guess. That is exactly I'm talking about, the Balkans is a fucked up place inhabited by people insulting each other on a national basis all the time and ready to kill each other for whatever bullshit reason anytime.


It was not supposed to be an insult, it was just there to expose your general hypocrisy and lack of knowledge or better lack of will to comprehend seriousness of situation regarding the name.
You know, "supreme" beings when in their comfort zone tend to paint "petty" (non-interesting, boring things) black and white.

Thus, you simply follow when they say "Sadam has WMDs" - let's rape him and his people, it's a petty thing.

On the other hand situation of your interest suddenly are not petty, but a "simplistic interpretation" :lol:

But, no worries, hypocrisy nowadays became a virtue.... it seems it is not weakness or immorality any longer 8)
#14924389
It's just a stupid name, noemon. Whether Macedonia calls itself Macedonia or Northern Macedonia is of no actual political relevance whatsoever. The idea that Macedonia is a threat to Greece is utterly preposterous either way. This shit makes Hitler look reasonable.

Beren wrote:That is exactly I'm talking about, the Balkans is a fucked up place inhabited by people insulting each other on a national basis all the time and ready to kill each other for whatever bullshit reason anytime.


Indeed.
#14924391
Just placing a non-political nugget in here:
The name Salade Macedoine comes from Macedonia and means there are many different ingredients in it, like there are many kinds of people in Macedonia. I read it in The Economist when they were discussing the Balkan wars.
#14924392
Rugoz wrote:It's just a stupid name, noemon. Whether FYR Macedonia calls itself Macedonia or Northern Macedonia is of no actual political relevance whatsoever. The idea that FYR Macedonia is a threat to Greece is utterly preposterous either way. This shit makes Hitler look reasonable.


Of course it is not just about the name of the country, but about a lot more things that have been dealt with in the agreement. It is about historical textbooks, revisionism, propaganda, fake narratives. The idea that Kossovo was a threat to Yugoslavia was utterly preposterous by the way even more so when Kossovar Albanians enjoyed full equal rights both as citizens and as a constituent nation. The idea that faux ultra-nationalist narratives should be permitted to fester is indeed preposterous and it does make Hitler look reasonable.
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