EU-BREXIT - Page 203 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

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By Beren
#15015145
Corbyn can talk and think coherently and looks fresher mentally than Trump, and unlike Trump he also has lots of character and political experience. The age card has to be played against him because the Tories, either with Hunt or Johnson, are about to cross the line of reasonableness to compete with the Brexit Party, so it's not enough if Corbyn's just an antisemitic red menace, he must be senile and unreasonable too.
By B0ycey
#15015146
SolarCross wrote:As for Boris you simply don't understand the UK culture at all if you think there is something especially bizarre about having a creative hobby.


I couldn't give a shit if BoJo paints crates and makes double decker buses out of them. But if you watch his Talk Radio interview, it is him not Corbyn who has lost his marbles.

Nonetheless Corbyn is actually able to answer a question coherently. BoJo is a clown who doesn't understand them and rambles nonsense back. He will not get away with that as PM. When you have opinion polls saying the Cunt who tried his best to ruin the NHS is a preferred leader than you, you know you have likeability problems and perhaps the top job isn't for you.

I can't comment on Swinson as she is a nobody but since her only claim to fame is imitating Boris's campaign, #JoinJo is on obvious imitation of #BackBoris, then she is a obviously a natural born follower not a leader.


#JoinJo precedes #BackBoris as the Lib Dem campaign has been going slightly longer FYI. So who is copying who? Although you will see more of her soon enough. Nonetheless if she can turn the public to support her as well as she has turned the Lib Dem members to join her, both Corbyn and Johnson are fucked. She has likeability to her aura and actually can stand her ground under pressure.
By SolarCross
#15015148
B0ycey wrote:I
#JoinJo precedes #BackBoris as the Lib Dem campaign has been going slightly longer FYI. So who is copying who? Although you will see more of her soon enough. Nonetheless if she can turn the public to support her as well as she has turned the Lib Dem members to join her, both Corbyn and Johnson are fucked. She has likeability to her aura and actually can stand her ground under pressure.


You literally made that up without checking and as it turns out Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation because Boris used the same branding in his bid for Mayor in 2012!

By B0ycey
#15015149
SolarCross wrote:You literally made that up without checking and as it turns out you are lying because Boris used the same branding in his bid for Mayor in 2012!



More like you got lucky as naturally I was basing it on current campaigns and you've pulled that out of your ass. :lol:

Although I am sure Jo wasn't thinking of Boris's Major leadership campaign when using her hashtag, so no need to worry. She is an independent women I can assure you.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15015150
Beren wrote:Ukraine has belonged to Russia for centuries and they're almost identical culturally, so their corruption is almost identical too, although it may be worse in Ukraine because it's a periphery.

How come you're so pro-Russian, by the way?


I take the long view of Russia, yes, they have a very centralised form of government,but so what, in the U.K, Labour devolved power & look how that has ended up with little change for the people.

Part of that is because there is a corruption of our democracy by too much involvement with business & that has left people marginalised in that system.

That produces a reality in our lives that makes for very little difference between Eastern Europe & ourselves.

Additionally, Labour, which introduced devolution, is now arguing for centralisation, by wanting to remain in europe, where we will continue to be run by Brussels, that does not compute with democratic, or political logic.

But, with Russia, I acknowledge the people's role in defeating Nazism, something that politicians in the U.K have never fully recognised, neither have the U.S, simply because of western ideological opposition to the Russians.

Further to that, my political antenae twitch when I detect political idiots in the west doing their utmost to promote anti-Russian sentiment.

I am not blind to Russian actions in their own backyard, but if they are threatened, they will address the issue in any way they see fit, as for SKRIPAL, he got his just deserts, it's just a pity that there was colateral damage, to his daughter & others.

The West, through the E.U, the World Bank, the IMF, along with individual countries, have bankrolled the Ukraine with £ 100's BILLIONS of western taxpayers money that will never be recovered, money that will disappear into the pockets of the autocratic, corrupt Ukrainian politicians in government & I thoroughly dislike western hypocrisy when they have the nerve to call the Russian kettle black.
User avatar
By Beren
#15015151
The Lib Dems seem to have serious cadre issues, they seem unable to find an authentic leader out of the blue with whom they could play the role they're supposed to.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15015152
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:That makes sense.


I agree that it can be a good safety mechanism, although I regard the fact that popular consent to join the EEC was taken to mean consent to the developing political union as far more consequential. There's a deep and long-standing skepticism in Britain regarding political integration and an ambivalent and often opposed populace has been dragged along without consultation.


Cheers. I misread what you were saying.


When will the political union with Mercosur be announced?


Soon, First Europe and then ZIE WORLD.

We(EU) also signed Vietnam today by the way. We are striking gold left and right recently.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15015153
JohnRawls wrote:I mean what can i say. You consider Western Europe to be almost as corrupt as Russia/Ukraine etc. It is your opinion. I can only say that its wrong. The corruption in countries like Romania, Greece or Hungary are much less than in Russia and Ukraine in my opinion not to mention many other places in the EU.

As for comparing democracies in Russia with Europe... Again, this is your opinion. If you believe that any country in the EU or the EU itself is almost on the same level as Russia democracy wise then it is your unpopular opinion. Again I will heavily disagree.

I won't even bother going in to details because i find your argument absurdly incorrect for whatever reason. I won't change your mind.

As for lecturing other states. I mean Putin said that "Liberalism" is dead or i am missing something? Tusk responded to his bullshit.



Well, the Guardian no less called out TUSK on what PUTIN had said, so you pay your money & make your choice.

The Guardian,by the way, is to the Left , is pro-E.U & is unlikely to agree with PUTIN for no reason.

" I won't even bother going in to details because i find your argument absurdly incorrect for whatever reason. I won't change your mind".

Are you sure that it's not a case of you not changing your mind for any reason? ;)
By B0ycey
#15015154
Beren wrote:The Lib Dems seem to have serious cadre issues, they seem unable to find an authentic leader out of the blue with whom they could play the role they're supposed to.


The Lib Dems have quite a few authentic leaders actually. Davey would be suitable but Swinson is better.

There problem is not their MPs but that they went to bed with the Tories and fucked over their core electorate big time which is still fresh in people's memories. People are beginning to forgive them solely because they are the only major party to support remain. If they ever get into any form of power again they will not be forgiven doing likewise twice. Next time will be their only chance to revitalise their image and with Jo she has the personality and face to do just that.
User avatar
By Beren
#15015156
You had pipe dreams about the Independent Group too, @B0ycey. They don't have people for positions, Jo Swinson for PM is a nonsense.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15015157
Nonsense wrote:Well, the Guardian no less called out TUSK on what PUTIN had said, so you pay your money & make your choice.

The Guardian,by the way, is to the Left , is pro-E.U & is unlikely to agree with PUTIN for no reason.

" I won't even bother going in to details because i find your argument absurdly incorrect for whatever reason. I won't change your mind".

Are you sure that it's not a case of you not changing your mind for any reason? ;)


I am aware that the alt-right/Brexiteers have approximately the same griefs with liberalism as the the left. Hence we have situations like in Italy. What of it?
This will ultimately make the EU stronger. We have problems obviously and we are changing because of it as we try to sort them out. This change is slower than I would like and I really hoped the EU election will accelerate it. It did but not much. I really wished we could get some compromise candidate between the alt-right and the centrists but since alt-right did so badly, we need to settle for a deal between the left and the centre: probably Frans Timmermans.
By B0ycey
#15015159
Beren wrote:You had pipe dreams about the Independent Group too, @B0ycey. They don't have people for positions, Jo Swinson for PM is a nonsense.


They do if a GE went their way actually. Although sure Change was a pipe dream that turned into a nightmare for me but opinion polls do suggest the Lib Dems can win a GE resulting in Swinson as PM if things continue as they are.



Although a coalition Swinson PM is the most likely outcome I see today actually as Corbyn continues to be evasive.
By skinster
#15015162
A Moment in History
Sometimes we do not know when small actions could have the most momentous effects. The Archduke Franz Ferdinand loved his wife, which was most unusual for a Hapsburg. She was not of royal blood and strict protocol meant she could not appear in public ceremonies with him in Vienna. Which is why he chose to undertake a royal visit to the obscure Serbian provincial city of Sarajevo for her birthday. The rest, as they say, is history.

AJP Taylor liked to list Franz Ferdinand’s love for his wife as a cause of the First World War, a reminder that history is the study of human beings. Of course the massive arms race between the imperial powers, and the nationalist and democratic forces acting on old heterogenous dynastic empires, lay at the root of the First World War. But Taylor’s absolutely correct point is that even the greatest store of paraffin will not ignite without a spark, and perhaps the spark may never come. I am with Taylor on this, against the rigid determinists.

The vast transfer of wealth from everybody else to the bankers in the great banking collapse, and the huge growth in wealth inequality and obscene concentrations of wealth in a tiny number of private hands, are the underlying causes of the collapse in old political party structures across the western democracies and the rise of insurgent politics in all its various forms, mostly under the careful control of the elite using all their media control to misdirect popular blame for mass poverty against immigrants.

There are however genuine examples of insurgent politics seeking to craft a fairer society in the UK, of which the SNP and Yes Movement in Scotland, and Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters in England and Wales, are the most important examples.

Unusually for me, this article is addressed primarily to Corbyn supporters down in England and Wales. You don’t have to be an Austrian Archduke to stand at the moment when your own small actions can have profound, indeed historical ramifications. If just a few score less ordinary people had listened to and acted on Camille Desmoulins’ great speech as the revolutionary impulse teetered, the world might have been very different. Corbyn supporters are at that moment of historic decision right now – and mostly do not realise it.

Jeremy Corbyn represents the only realistic chance the people of England and Wales have been given in decades, to escape from the neo-liberal economics that have impoverished vast swathes of the population. But he leads a parliamentary party which is almost entirely comprised of hardline neo-liberal adherents.

The majority of the parliamentary Labour party are the people who brought in academy schools, high student tuition fees, PFI, who introduced more privatisation into the health service than the Tories have, and who brought you the Iraq and Afghan Wars. They abstained on the Tory austerity benefit cuts and on May’s “hostile environment” immigration legislation. They support Trident nuclear missiles. Many hanker after bombing Syria, and most are members of Labour Friends of Israel.

Even before the current disintegration of UK political structures, there was no way that these Labour MPs were ever going to support Corbyn in power in seeking to return the UK towards the mainstream of European social democracy. They have spent the last four years in undermining Corbyn at every turn and attempting to return Labour to the right wing political Establishment agenda. In the current fluid state of UK politics, with sections of Labour MPs already having split off and others threatening to, it is even more important that the very large majority of Labour MPs are replaced by people who genuinely support the views and principles for which Jeremy Corbyn stands.

Regrettably Labour MPs do not automatically have to run for reselection against other potential party candidates, but under one of those hideous compromises so beloved of Labour Party conferences, they have to notify their intention to again be the party’s candidate for the constituency, and there is then a very brief window of a couple of weeks in which local branches and trade union branches can register a contest and force a challenge.

That process has now been triggered and it is ESSENTIAL that every Labour Party member reading this blog acts NOW to try to get rid of those dreadful Blairite MPs. If you do not act, the historic moment will be missed and the chance to move England and Wales away from neo-liberalism may be permanently surrendered.

The right wing forces have the massive advantage of inertia. The local MP is very likely a crony of the chairs of the relevant local branch institutions and of the appropriate local trade union officials (and there is insufficient public understanding of the fact that historically the unions are very much a right wing force in Labour politics). I am willing to bet that in the vast number of constituencies local officials and MPs are pretty confident of getting through this without the large majority of their members – especially the vast new Corbyn supporting membership – even noticing that anything is happening.

Which is why you need to act. Phone the chair of your local constituency today and demand that they tell you how to go about forcing a reselection battle. Make sure that they give you the phone numbers for any local branches or institutions you have to go through. If you do not know the phone number for your local constituency chair, phone Labour HQ and get them to tell you. If you are a member of an affiliated trade union or organisation, take action there too

Do not be put off. Do not follow any instruction from anyone, not even Momentum, about MPs who ought not to be challenged. Politics is a dirty game and full of dirty deals. Use your own judgement. Certainly any of the Labour MPs who abstained on Tory welfare cuts, failed to oppose the “hostile environment” immigration policy or voted to bomb Syria must be subject to challenge. I would recommend that you challenge any Friend of Israel, given that Israel is now openly an apartheid state. Remember, you may be able to influence two constituencies – that where you live, and through your trade union branch that where you work.

Whether or not you are a Labour Party member (and remember I am not), please bring this article to the attention of any and every Labour Party member you know. Progress reports in the comments section would be extremely welcome, as would anyone willing to take the time to draw up “hit lists” based on the kind of criteria I outline above.

While the media are concentrated on the Tory shenanigans, it is the Labour Party members who have the chance to make choices which could have in the long term much more important effects upon society; if people act as I recommend, this could be a historic turning point. Otherwise it will just be one of those moments that passed, and the Corbyn insurgency a small footnote of might have been.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... n-history/


B0ycey wrote:She has likeability to her aura and actually can stand her ground under pressure.






She loves Thatcher too. Of course she does. :lol:
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15015197
JohnRawls wrote:Soon, First Europe and then ZIE WORLD.

:lol:

It's the logical end point of the arguments put forward though.

JohnRawls wrote:We(EU) also signed Vietnam today by the way. We are striking gold left and right recently.

I have noticed the sense of urgency.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15015212
Kaiserschmarrn wrote::lol:

It's the logical end point of the arguments put forward though.


I have noticed the sense of urgency.


It is kinda urgent. We don't have unlimited days of Trump. His trade war and extortionism is helpful to say the least. :excited: This is my theory at least. That or we are just trying to make it harder on UK if a no-deal happens.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15015213
^ The EU, and some of its members, definitely want to make a statement in opposition to Trump I think.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15015258
B0ycey wrote:She has likeability to her aura and actually can stand her ground under pressure.

Just been watching them, Swinson & Davey, politicking in the Lib-Dem leadership debate hosted by Adam Boulton on Sky.

What a load of shite!

Laughably incoherent.


:lol:
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15015270
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:^ The EU, and some of its members, definitely want to make a statement in opposition to Trump I think.


I do not think it has anything to do with making Trump look bad. Perhaps countries are just more lenient to us seeing how Trump behaves. "What if Europe goes full Trump on us?" crosses their mind. It is nice to see countries come around as of late and sign deals with us. Mercosur and Vietnam are good examples. We fucking care not that we will reduce our tariffs on agriculture to 0 from 7.5% because they can't really compete with our more cost-efficient and subsidies agri sector while we just get full access for industrial goods like cars, machines, industrial equipment etc (35% to 0% tarrifs) Not to mention those lucrative government contracts that we were excluded from.

Realistically the only country that can compete with us agri sector wise in America. But again, we have agricultural standards that they can't really violate the same way as Mercosur and Vietnam have to follow. Not to mention the cost-efficiency and transportation questions from Vietnam and South America. American GMOs can be competitive if only they didn't have severe regulations on them in Europe. :excited:
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15015273
ingliz wrote:Just been watching them, Swinson & Davey, politicking in the Lib-Dem leadership debate hosted by Adam Boulton on Sky.

What a load of shite!

Laughably incoherent.


:lol:

The Liberal Party has been in the political wilderness for almost a century now. It's the party that people join if they haven't thought very much about politics and don't know what they believe, but quite like the idea of being an MP anyway. Lol. :lol:
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