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User avatar
By Londonbiker
#14977457
lupus75 wrote:What an awful hostorical fact that England wants to leave the EU.
It’s a shame!
The Brexit has been voted thanks to (!) the lies of (among others) Mr Boris Johnson and other extreme parties.
Even recognized after the vote, the government has not decided to cancel the vote.
It’s still time.
I think the EU investors will globally stop the investments in GB.
Personally I love GB and I’m visiting it twice every year, because I’am (like many others) respecting the EU.
When really the Brexit is officialised my holidays will be in EU Ireland.
I know 7 persons who work in England (banks and good working companies). I spoke to them at the end of the year and ... everybody, with no exception, will either continue their work in France or in Germany. One has just signed with a company in Canada.
I wish you all good luck, being disappointed by this negative BREXIT, I’m afraid that this will isolate more and more England!
Lupus


May I ask what is ‘respecting’ the EU got to do with your analysis?

If the Government revoked A50 or cancelled the vote then that would just prove the electorates vote doesn’t matter & democracy would be fully broken.

I enjoy Europe & will continue to visit however an awful historical fact without evidence to support is utter tosh. The only negativity I’ve witnessed is anything anti Brexit & negotiations are still ongoing. Btw, it’s not just England, it’s the UK & NI.
User avatar
By ingliz
#14977461
Londonbiker wrote:Btw, it’s not just England, it’s the UK & NI.

No, it's just England.

Wales had changed its mind a scant few weeks after voting Leave.

Independent, 5 July 2016 wrote:Welsh voters would vote Remain by 53 per cent and Leave by 47 per cent if there was a second EU referendum.

Scotland and NI voted Remain.


:)
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14977477
ingliz wrote:If you leave on WTO terms, the Treasury calculate you will be £81 billion p.a. worse off.


:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: That's because the Treasury 'team' are all 'remainers' , that is consistent, because they have never correctly forecast anything right in their lives....EXCEPT their taxpayer funded, fixed monthly salaries. :lol:

NOW, that's what I call, 'Staying on our terms', you can bet your last penny that, according to them(Remainers), were we to suddenly 'abort' 'LEAVE' on 29 March the U.K would be basking in economic 'sunshine', with the £pound heading skywards, shares on the stock market too,the Brussels 'gravy train from Westminster choo-chooing for all it's worth, tax cuts(election on the horizon)CORBYN on anti-depressants, Hey! WTF could go 'wrong'?....Oh no!, it's that spanner in the works again....REALITY.

:eek: :smokin: :peace: :lol:
Last edited by Nonsense on 04 Jan 2019 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
By layman
#14977482
Yes let’s just ignore every prediction and analysis from everywhere - private and governmental - because we are stubborn and think we know better.

Let’s also stick our heads in the sand that all the uks enemies are laughing and rejoicing while all allies are facepalming and bracing for a rough ride.

Still waiting for a single positive detailed analysis or sign of positive trend anywhere in our economy or society? One maybe?

Ps funny

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... zero-ships
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14977490
layman wrote:Yes let’s just ignore every prediction and analysis from everywhere - private and governmental - because we are stubborn and think we know better.

Let’s also stick our heads in the sand that all the uks enemies are laughing and rejoicing while all allies are facepalming and bracing for a rough ride.

Still waiting for a single positive detailed analysis or sign of positive trend anywhere in our economy or society? One maybe?

Ps funny

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... zero-ships


Nonsense -

You will not see any 'positive' trends in the economy, whether we stay or go, although, if things go South,because the Tories can't run a whelk stall(they can't), then, maybe a few million migrants from the 'mass-uncontrolled-migration' years will start to dig out their 'return' tickets 'home' & ride off in the sunset.

That will be a healthy dose of sunshine, I say that as someone who thinks the 'balance' has gone 'topsy turvy' in our national life & not because I hate 'foreigners'(I don't).

P.S Chris GRAYLING is a typical Tory waste of space, too easy to make jokes off of him in my opinion.
By layman
#14977493
Yes, many of us predicted the brexiteers would blame whosever was in charge for not being true believers, incompetent etc. I’m sure if Farage, Boris or the tooth fairy were in charge, everything would be sunshine.

Well if not now thenat maybe in 50 years like moggie said....
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14977554
layman wrote:Yes, many of us predicted the brexiteers would blame whosever was in charge for not being true believers, incompetent etc. I’m sure if Farage, Boris or the tooth fairy were in charge, everything would be sunshine.

Well if not now thenat maybe in 50 years like moggie said....



Nonsense -

Never a day goes by without another doomsayer article in the media.

If you believe them, then the sky is always dark or foreboding, HITLER was one that took fright at seeing such a scene from his mountain top retreat of the Berghof in Salzburg.

It is irrational behaviour to generate personal anxiety over unfounded fears, or fears that are realised, but which one has no control over, sometimes you just have to adapt or die.

There are much bigger 'traumas' on the way for our economy than BREXIT, which is conveniently used as an excuse by the Tory government for their mishandling of the economy, I'm sure many believe their LIES about Labour ruining the economy, but take it from me, Labour 's record is much,much better than the Tories ever was in the post-war period.

The above is why the economy will falter, NOT because of 'BREXIT', as some people call it.

The TORIES ALWAYS turn the truth inside out, upside down, then throw it at Labour whenever they are up to their eyeballs in it.

Another 'trick' is to turn the heat up on Russia with feigned concerns for people or countries that the Tories couldn't give a fig about.
User avatar
By Steve_American
#14977582
The moderators moved my post from its own thread too this thread.
This buried it where no one will see it. Too bad for us.
It is at the very bottom of page 102.

It is about the opportunity that Brexit gives to the UK to dump "Supply Side" economics that has not delivered prosperity to most British
people. Trickle down economics has not worked as promised. This is also called Neo-liberal economics. This theory is based on false assumptions. All theories based on false assumptions will not result in good conclusions. For example I'm told by professional Professor MMTers that this theory proves that the Free Market will correctly price every item and service but this theory assumes that there is just one person in the world doing all the buying and selling. He has no one to sell to or buy from though, so how can this formulation prove that the market finds the correct price? The theory also I'm told factors banks, credit, and money itself out of consideration, so it can't see the danger of too much private borrowing during booms. Instead it worries about too much Gov. borrowing, but Gov. borrowing doesn't ever need to be paid off, just rolled over for ever. And a fiat currency makes this easy as pie. [For the last 35 years the US has borrowed about $20T and it doesn't seem to have caused runaway inflation or anything else bad.]
. . . This flawed theory is intended to justify and allow the rich to take from the common people the fruits of their labor. It works sort of like how religion justified and allowed the nobility and kings to rule Europe in the Middle Ages.

My post wondered if there is a new Thomas Jefferson out there to provide a ringing short call to what can be done if the UK dumps the EU and its Neo-liberal economics in favor of an economics that actually doesn't start from false assumptions and works for the people instead of the rich. That is MMT or at least original Keynesianism, adjusted now that there are fiat currencies and not the gold standard.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14978005
skinster wrote::D


So you discriminate now against people who do something bad to labour? Why does it matter that she worked for Murdoch?
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14978009
ingliz wrote:No, it's just England.

Wales had changed its mind a scant few weeks after voting Leave.


Scotland and NI voted Remain.


:)



Nonsense -

ACTUALLY, it's NOTHING to do with England, Wales,Ireland or Scotland.

The vote was a referendum vote, NOTHING to do with territory,borders or political parties, it WAS ONLY ABOUT INDIVIDUAL Votes.

What you are talking about, is the analysis of the voting result, which, whilst interesting from one point of view, is totally irrelevent to the referendum itself, where ONLY the number of votes is what matters.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14978089
Just to remind Pro-Brexit and anti-Brexiteers. 2 days left till the vote :excited:

We all know what the outcome will be with the current tone of May. :lol:

Hard Brexit here we come. As predicted from day one.

Edit: Did it get moved again to the 15th? :?:
By snapdragon
#14978104
Yes, the 15th has been confirmed.

I'm still hoping against hope there will be a chance to exit Brexit at the last hour.

I think Corbyn will cave in to Labour members's demands and agree to support another referendum.

He's not as bad as some of his cronies. Andrew Murray for one. What a crackpot.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14978137
Sturgeon :excited:

Everything that has happened over the past couple of years, from Scotland facing exit from the EU against our will to every reasonable attempt at compromise to protect Scotland’s interests by the Scottish government being spurned, to the powers of the Scottish parliament being eroded, to the UK government even taking the Scottish government to court, all of that has strengthened and reinforced the case for Scotland to be independent, because these are not just academic arguments, all of this will have a material impact on Scotland’s economy and well-being for decades to come ...

The case for independence is materially strengthened from an already strong base in 2014 ...

We were told in 2014 that it was voting for independence that would put in peril our membership of the European Union. Because we didn’t vote for independence, we now not just find ourselves facing exit, the voice and the interests of Scotland are being completely ignored and sidelined.


Image
User avatar
By Beren
#14978162
The Guardian wrote:May, who spoke to a number of EU leaders over Christmas, was “in listening mode”, and aware of the concerns about her deal, Kwarteng said. But he declined to say if the prime minister may have extracted new concessions that could win over MPs.

Did she ask them to drop the backstop again and again or what? Because that's the only concession that could win over MPs, but the EU has been clear all along that the backstop remains. "We do our best proposing her but she keeps refusing. What a stubborn girl!"

Does she even know what she's doing? With asking the EU for concessions again and again in vain while making no deal an imaginable possibility she's making a case for no deal actually. So even if a second referendum were called, no deal would be a real option.

“It’s pretty irresponsible to think that you can get a bad deal through by this sort of threat,” said Patten, who was due to make a speech alongside the recently resigned former universities minister Sam Gyimah on Monday to argue for a second referendum.

“There used to be the Dr Strangelove argument, that sometimes you could threaten people with doing crazy things in order to get them to back down, and that’s really what’s being suggested at the moment. I don’t think Mrs May thinks that it actually makes any sort of sense whatsoever, to go ahead without a deal,” said Patten.

With a traffic-testing exercise for no deal taking place on Monday morning, with Manston airfield near Ramsgate in Kent being used as a holding bay for 11 lorries, mimicking measures to ease congestion on roads to Channel ports, Boris Johnson called for a no-deal departure to be welcomed.

The former foreign secretary used his weekly Daily Telegraph column to argue that such an eventuality was “closest to what people actually voted for” in the 2016 Brexit referendum.

“When 17.4m chose to leave the EU, they didn’t vote to stay locked in the customs union or the single market. There was no suggestion that we would pay £39bn for nothing, without even a sniff of a trade deal with Brussels,” he wrote.

People were dismissing the “downright apocalyptic” forecasts of no deal to increasingly support it as an option, Johnson wrote.

He wrote: “For weeks the public have been regaled with this stuff – and yet an astonishing thing has happened: the grimmer the warnings, and the more systematic the efforts to make their flesh creep, the greater has been their indifference and their resolve.”
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14978373
UK MPs are undemocratic sleezebags honestly after this.

This is not a solution to your stupid situation. Nor is it a solution that should be allowed. This doesn't sort out the situation for the UK nor for the EU.

Basically what it does is:
1) Make the situation less manageable/unmanageable if a no-deal happens. (Allows parliament posses powers that it shouldn't have in the first place)
2) Undermines the referendum by limiting a scenario to a deal or no-Brexit in a great way.

So what are the same MPs going to do next? The chances of Mays deal passing is nowhere near 50-50. The chances of her deal passing is near freaking 0.(Actually after this vote, the chances of Mays deal passing is below 0) So after Mays deal fails on the 15th what are the same MPs going to do? Extend Brexit? No, this is not what was promised. A Brexit needs to happen in one way or the other. Another choice is a 2nd referendum but this is again a loose-loose scenario that doesn't sort anything nor should we let the UK cancel Brexit and continue under the same terms. If UK does a 2nd referendum then we need to change the terms of EU membership by excluding majority of the opt outs that were given. We must be firm on the conditions.

Same case should be applied if UK will try to cheat the system by cancelling and starting Brexit again. UK is weak, we must pressure UK to make a decision.(A long term decision - either stay or leave) I believe that if a 2nd referendum is held we need to tip the balance so if it will be a remain vote then it is a long term remain vote. So announce cancelation of most opt outs in case of remain and see how it goes. There shouldn't be any fear of pushing the UK away, actually this is preferable outcome in my opinion. Our founding fathers never envisioned UK in the EU in the first place and they did advise against UKs membership.

In retrospect EU hardliners are right.
By B0ycey
#14978374
Don't worry. Everything is posturing. The shambolics of awarding contracts to ferry companies without amy ferries in ports that are unfunctionable along with parking lorries at the side of the road for little reason means "No Deal" is not an option.

If May plan gets voted down it just means it will come back again a week later. And a week later if it gets rejected again. And a week later if it is rejected again and so on. But if there is no impasse by the end of March, May has said that if her deal is rejected then No Brexit becomes likely. It will be the Brexiteers themselves who will save the UK by their ignorance. And lets not forget May is safe for 10 months to prevent Brexit if she has to.

Keep the Faith. We aren't leaving.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14978376
B0ycey wrote:Don't worry. Everything is posturing. The shambolics of awarding contracts to ferry companies without amy ferries in ports that are unfunctionable along with parking lorries at the side of the road for little reason means "No Deal" is not an option.

If May plan gets voted down it just means it will come back again a week later. And a week later if it gets rejected again. And a week later if it is rejected again and so on. But if there is no impasse by the end of March, May has said that if her deal is rejected then No Brexit becomes likely. It will be the Brexiteers themselves who will save the UK by their ignorance. And lets not forget May is safe for 10 months to prevent Brexit if she has to.

Keep the Faith. We aren't leaving.


I am not interested if the UK leaves or not. I am interested if EU problems are sorted out. To a lesser degree i am interested if the UKs problems are sorted out. There is no point of the UK in EU right now because it will block any reform as it used too.(Both good and bad reform)
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