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By Rich
#15008788
AFAIK wrote:Catching up on this thread and Pote ruined the ending of Game of Thrones for me.
Fucking Brexit.

Yes I got hit by that spolier, although I think its a little but unfair to blame @Potemkin for ruining the ending of GoT, I think that has a little bit more to do with D&D.

While pleased to see the Lib Dems leading a national poll, this just goes to show, what I have been arguing that Britain's politicians have been bitterly let down by the fickle nature of the British public. I'm still waiting to hear even one attempt at explaining how David Cameron could have dealt with the UKIP threat in 2013 without promising an EU referendum.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15008790
AFAIK wrote:Catching up on this thread and Pote ruined the ending of Game of Thrones for me.
Fucking Brexit.

Image
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15008796
B0ycey wrote:Scotland would indeed welcome migration if it was independent. It would have to if it wanted growth to pay for their future. But migration is parallel to investment within business and work opportunities. And the question is as the rest if the UK is their biggest market and the UK is out of the EU and the EU insists on trade barriers fuel to WTO, will trading with the rest of the EU compensate that first what they lost to encourage new investment?

And Beren the question isn't why wouldn't the UK allow a legal Scottish independence vote (mainly defence I suspect), but why would they? Why would the UK volunteer to increase the shitfest they are currently in and divide Scotland further when really Sturgeon should wait until there is no longer (or perhaps a lessen) an economic burden to leave the UK and have justification and a much larger support for it. The SNP would only get the blame in Holyrood for false promises if she pushed on with this whilst Brexit still hasn't been resolved and the Scottish economy collapsed like the Tories will discover under 'No Deal' Brexit if they did.





Boycey"The SNP would only get the blame in Holyrood for false promises if she pushed on with this whilst Brexit still hasn't been resolved and the Scottish economy collapsed like the Tories will discover under 'No Deal' Brexit if they did"


I like the idea that the SNP would get some of their own medicine when the proverbials hit the fan, should Scotland get it's independence(which I agree with), but is having to contend with it's own economic disaster as a direct result.

Compared to the U.K leaving the E.U & adjusting to it's new position(I welcome the opportunities to make businesses work for their money)Scotland would end up in an economic pickle.
That would put into the spotlight there opposition in Westminster to the U.K leaving the E.U.
By layman
#15008863
That poll is pretty incredible eh @Beren

Corbyn was on tv straining to suggest some kind of change in policy. You could see he was gagging at the thought though.

The tories are going even harder right. They feel they have to in an electoral sense because Farage is eating their base.

Mark Francois was just on tv claiming Brussels will cave at the sight of a true brexiteers leader when the arrive. Sigh .....
By B0ycey
#15008867
Nonsense wrote:I like the idea that the SNP would get some of their own medicine when the proverbials hit the fan, should Scotland get it's independence(which I agree with), but is having to contend with it's own economic disaster as a direct result.

Compared to the U.K leaving the E.U & adjusting to it's new position(I welcome the opportunities to make businesses work for their money)Scotland would end up in an economic pickle.
That would put into the spotlight there opposition in Westminster to the U.K leaving the E.U.


The economic pickle Scotland would find themselves in is exactly the same the UK will find out sure enough if BoJo has his way. Perhaps more painful as they are talking about joining the EU so would be forced to accept their trade rules. Which is why Scottish Independence only really makes sense if the UK was to remain in the EU actually.

Nonetheless independence is more a passionate belief rather than an economic one. Are we really a culture of nose cutters? So perhaps wait and see if I was Sturgeon and have justification for such an action once Brexit is sorted out. Although if they leave the UK we would be forced to stop Trident. So every cloud.
By B0ycey
#15008872
layman wrote:That poll is pretty incredible eh...


:lol:

The Lib Dems can expect great things if Brexit turns into a complete farce by the Tories insisting on No Deal. Which makes you wonder. The Tories members are choosing the Next Prime Minister and the Lib Dems may well be choosing the one after that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/lib-dems-top-national-poll-for-only-second-time-ever-11731962
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By Potemkin
#15008894
B0ycey wrote::lol:

The Lib Dems can expect great things if Brexit turns into a complete farce by the Tories insisting on No Deal. Which makes you wonder. The Tories members are choosing the Next Prime Minister and the Lib Dems may well be choosing the one after that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/lib-dems-top-national-poll-for-only-second-time-ever-11731962

This could be the generation which sees the Liberal Party make their big comeback after their electoral collapse in the 1920s. A century in the political wilderness.... :lol:
By B0ycey
#15008897
Potemkin wrote:This could be the generation which sees the Liberal Party make their big comeback after their electoral collapse in the 1920s. A century in the political wilderness.... :lol:


:lol:

Maybe. Although really they are simply the only place you can stick a cross on a ballot paper within England if you want to stay in the EU and that is where their comeback is coming from. Perhaps if Corbyn was more absolute in his language Labour could wipe the political landscape red. But he still would rather talk about elections than remaining in the EU.
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By Beren
#15008898
Potemkin wrote:This could be the generation which sees the Liberal Party make their big comeback after their electoral collapse in the 1920s. A century in the political wilderness.... :lol:

All they needed was Brexit and Corbyn.

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By Rich
#15009015
Beren wrote:All they needed was Brexit and Corbyn.

But we had Brexit and Corbyn in 2017 and the Great British electorate in its wisdom rewarded Labour for electing Corbyn, with the biggest increase in its vote share since World War II. Now the public are seething with rage over Parliaments failure to deliver Brexit so they make the number one party the most obstructive to Brexit all British party. I think Owen Jones is right, the shine's been taken off Corbyn's radicalism. On both Brexit and so called anti-Semitism Corbyn's been the worst sort of fudging, compromising, dissimulating triangulator.
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By Beren
#15009017
Rich wrote:But we had Brexit and Corbyn in 2017 and the Great British electorate in its wisdom rewarded Labour for electing Corbyn, with the biggest increase in its vote share since World War II.

It seems you didn't have enough of them then, but two more years of Brexit and Corbyn made the Liberals come back after a century. :lol:
User avatar
By Ter
#15009349
Brexit party tops Westminster election poll for first time

Survey by Opinium suggests Nigel Farage would be 20 seats short of a majority, with Conservatives reduced to 26 MPs

Image

Nigel Farage’s Brexit party has surged into first place as voters’ favourites, according to a new poll. It is the first time the party has achieved top position in a national poll. The results suggest hundreds of Conservative seats are at risk.

The Brexit party’s support increased by two points to 26% of the vote in the latest Opinium poll – for the Observer – which asked people how they would vote in the next Westminster election.

Labour is in second place on 22%, but its support has fallen by seven points over the past two weeks. The Tories are third on 17%, with their support down five points, and the Lib Dems are up five points, on 16% of the vote.

These results come after a poll last week put the Lib Dems in first place, in another sign that parties with a clear position on Brexit are gaining support while the Conservatives and Labour continue to grapple with their stances on leaving the EU. Both parties are under pressure to set out their pro-Brexit or pro-Remain positions more unequivocally.


The Brexit Party jumps into first place in voting intention for the first time, as Conservative and Labour support falls
0

The Brexit Party 26 (+2% change)
Labour 22 (-7%)
Conservative 17 (-5%)
Liberal Democrat 16 (+5%)
Green 11 (+8%)
SNP 4 (no change)
UKIP 1 (-1%)
Plaid Cymru 1 (+1%)
Change UK 1 (-2%)
Other party 1 (no change)

According to a seat predictor by the Electoral Calculus website, the result would leave Farage 20 seats short of a majority, with 306 MPs. The Conservatives would be reduced to 26 MPs, suggesting they could be the minor party in a coalition with Farage. However, inconsistent swings in different seats make any such predictions very difficult.

There is good news for the Greens, who are up eight points to 11% of the vote, but not all the news for the pro-Remain parties is positive. Change UK recorded just 1% support, down two points on Opinium’s previous poll. Most Remain voters (54%) said that Change UK MPs should join the Liberal Democrats to present a united front against Brexit.

Theresa May and Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn continue to have incredibly low ratings on the question of who would make the best prime minister. Both are on only 15%, with a record 60% failing to back either party leader.

On balance, 45% of the public think May has done a bad job as prime minister, with only a quarter (24%) saying she has done a good job. Half (49%) also think that no one else in her position as prime minister would have done a better job in the circumstances that she faced.

In the Tory leadership race, Boris Johnson has the most support (24%) among Conservative voters to be the party’s next leader. The other standout choice is Michael Gove, with 14%.

Adam Drummond, from Opinium, said: “All of the big winners from the European elections have seen some sort of a boost, with the Brexit party adding another two points to move into first place, while Labour have fallen back significantly. While the Lib Dems have experienced a boost, the underreported story from the elections and since then has been the Greens, who have gained eight points since our last poll.

“While the Brexit party and the Lib Dems have been taking votes from Leavers and Remainers respectively, the Greens are unique in taking votes from both sides of the Brexit divide.
Brexit 306 MPs, does Farage even have so many candidates ?

“While the usual caveats should apply about how much to read into Westminster voting intention polls, given the proximity to the European elections, the fact is that we might be less than six months out from a general election so these might become relevant very quickly.”

Opinium polled 2,005 people online from 28-30 May.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... es-opinium

That is becoming interesting.
President Trump also got involved now, he is for BoJo and Farage :)
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By Beren
#15009369
Game of Thrones. I haven't even seen an episode, but it must be a mess like this. :lol:

What I find the most amazing is that Labour seems unable to capitalise on the Tory-Brexit shambles.
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By Patrickov
#15009375
Beren wrote:What I find the most amazing is that Labour seems unable to capitalise on the Tory-Brexit shambles.


Because the Labours are very much in shambles themselves. Period.
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By Beren
#15009427
Ter wrote:President Trump also got involved now, he is for BoJo and Farage :)

Handing over, or rather selling out the UK to Trump and allies must be good for the British people.

The Guardian wrote:US wants access to NHS in post-Brexit deal, says Trump ally

Before president’s visit, Woody Johnson says every area of UK economy up for discussion


Jessica Elgot

Sun 2 Jun 2019 17.58 BST Last modified on Sun 2 Jun 2019 18.30 BST


ImageWoody Johnson, left, is a close friend of Donald Trump. Photograph: Pablo Martínez Monsiváis/AP

The US will want business access to the NHS in any post-Brexit trade deal, the US ambassador has said, prompting anger from politicians and campaigners before Donald Trump’s state visit to the UK this week.

Woody Johnson, who is a close friend of the US president, said every area of the UK economy would be up for discussion when the two sides brokered a trade deal.

Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so.”

His comments were met with alarm from opposition politicians. The shadow health secretary, Jonathan Ashworth, said the comments were deeply concerning.

“The ambassador’s comments are terrifying and show that a real consequence of a no-deal Brexit, followed by a trade deal with Trump, will be our NHS up for sale. This absolutely should not be on the table,” he said. “Nigel Farage and the Tories want to rip apart our publicly funded and provided NHS. Labour will always defend it.”

Ed Davey, a candidate for the Lib Dem leadership, said the comments showed the NHS would be “up for sale under the Conservatives” and Brexit would leave the UK in a “far weaker negotiating position against Trump and his America First agenda”.

Johnson was also pressed on whether the US would seek a loosening of agricultural standards, including the importation of chlorinated chicken. He said the products should be offered to British consumers who could decide whether to buy them.

“There will have to be some deal where you give the British people a choice,” he said. “American products can come over and be allowed to come over. Agriculture is extremely important to the president and to any American president … but if the British people like it, they can buy it; if they don’t like it, they don’t have to buy it.”

Johnson said complaints about US food standards were ill-informed. “It’s completely safe. They can have a choice, we have five million Brits coming over every year and I’ve never heard a complaint about anything to do with chicken,” he said.

Trump, who gave several interviews to UK papers before his state visit on Monday, has suggested the UK should send the Brexit party leader, Nigel Farage, to negotiate its departure from the EU and has said he hopes Boris Johnson becomes Conservative leader.

Woody Johnson said on Sunday that Trump’s support for Boris Johnson stemmed from their personal relationship. “He’s known Boris Johnson for a long time and what he’s commenting on is his knowledge of Boris Johnson as a person,” the ambassador said.

On Sunday Trump denied calling the Duchess of Sussex “nasty” for having previously criticised him. In a tweet after the Sun made the claim, he said he had “never called Meghan Markle nasty” and claimed the “Fake News Media” had invented his remarks.

The Sun posted a recording of the original interview to prove that its reporting was accurate.

However, the real issue could be if he respects the Duchess of Sussex enough. :roll:
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By JohnRawls
#15009437
Beren wrote:Handing over, or rather selling out the UK to Trump and allies must be good for the British people.


However, the real issue could be if he respects the Duchess of Sussex enough. :roll:


Actually its far more complicated. Trump doesn't want access to just the NHS. The demands were pretty clear around a year ago:

1) UK has to devolve its workers and industrial standards to US level.
2) UK has to surrender the City/Financial sector to the US.
3) UK has to give access to US firms in to UK health care sector which includes both NHS and pharma.

I think point 2 is more critical for the UK compared to 1 and 3. Although who cares about fat cats right?
User avatar
By Beren
#15009438
JohnRawls wrote:Actually its far more complicated.

It can be far more complicated if you go into the details, but it's just simple as that if you've got to put it to the people in a way they understand the most, as Corbyn especially should.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15009439
Beren wrote:It can be far more complicated if you go into the details, but it's just simple as that if you've got to put it to the people in a way they understand the most, as Corbyn especially should.


1) You gonna be eating chlorinated chicken and genetically modified food non-stop.
2) You are going to be donating your savings and insurance money to the US. (Well more than you already do)
3) You are going to go private healthcare.
User avatar
By annatar1914
#15009440
JohnRawls wrote:Actually its far more complicated. Trump doesn't want access to just the NHS. The demands were pretty clear around a year ago:

1) UK has to devolve its workers and industrial standards to US level.
2) UK has to surrender the City/Financial sector to the US.
3) UK has to give access to US firms in to UK health care sector which includes both NHS and pharma.

I think point 2 is more critical for the UK compared to 1 and 3. Although who cares about fat cats right?


It's almost as if Britain did not clearly realize how far the American Revolution would go, that it wouldn't arrive on Albion's fair land. But it has.
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