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User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15019017
snapdragon wrote:I was replying to this:

I'm still not sure what you mean. Not only did May agree that frictionless trade was paramount, she also agreed to the nonsense that the Irish border must be sorted out before any talks about trade can begin.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15019117
The better question what are you all from UK going to do if Johnson prorogues the parliament? Are you ready to rise up with weapons? If not then shut up because there is no other way to stop it if he is determined.
By Atlantis
#15019182
JohnRawls wrote:The better question what are you all from UK going to do if Johnson prorogues the parliament? Are you ready to rise up with weapons? If not then shut up because there is no other way to stop it if he is determined.


Don't you know? Brits don't do revolution. @Rich is only kidding himself. They will docilely accept whatever overlord is imposed on them.
By snapdragon
#15019184
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:I'm still not sure what you mean. Not only did May agree that frictionless trade was paramount, she also agreed to the nonsense that the Irish border must be sorted out before any talks about trade can begin.



The nonsense was that there could be frictionless trade without being tied to the backstop.
It was the leave brigade's claim that we could have our cake and eat it. which was never possible.

I don't understand why you think it's some sort of Whitehall and/or government plot.
By snapdragon
#15019187
JohnRawls wrote:The better question what are you all from UK going to do if Johnson prorogues the parliament? Are you ready to rise up with weapons? If not then shut up because there is no other way to stop it if he is determined.


Don't be silly. BoJo has no intemtion of proroguing Parliament.

It would be political suicide to even try.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15019196
snapdragon wrote:Don't be silly. BoJo has no intemtion of proroguing Parliament.

It would be political suicide to even try.


People/leaders didn't want WW1, it still happened.
People/leaders didn't want WW2, it still happened.(Even Hitler)

Sometimes things happen irrelevant of any of us wanting/supporting something or not. WW1 didn't happen because everybody wanted a war, it happened due to the web of alliances and actions countries had to take. Same thing with Brexit. Tories and hardliners are backed in to a corner and they know it. So the only real choice for a hard brexit is prorogation of parliament.

If they do not deliver a Brexit then the party will probably collapse along with labour. Lib Dems will come out on top along with some kind of "Ukip/Brexit" party coming in 2nd. This is a bad scenario for them because,not only will they loose their leading position but also Brexit will get cancelled then. Lib Dems are not tories nor labour. They will campaign hard in the 2nd referendum and perhaps even allow the EU to participate along with outside of UK voters to make it impossible for leave to stand a chance.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15019275
JohnRawls wrote:The better question what are you all from UK going to do if Johnson prorogues the parliament? Are you ready to rise up with weapons? If not then shut up because there is no other way to stop it if he is determined.

Whoa, let's stay calm and carry on please. :lol:

Edit: just came across this:
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15019528
Labour politicians also thought that devolution would settle the independence question and turn Scotland into some kind of Labour fiefdom.

It didn't quite turn out like that. :lol:
User avatar
By Beren
#15019736
The Guardian wrote:Image Hammond: ‘I will remain a member of the House of Commons. I will do everything in my power from
my position to make sure that parliament blocks a Brexit without agreement.’
Photograph: Pascal Rossignol/AFP/Getty Images


Philip Hammond has suggested he is prepared to vote to bring down a Boris Johnson government should the likely new prime minister push for a no-deal Brexit.

In an outspoken intervention days before Johnson is expected to win the keys to Downing Street, the chancellor said it was “absolutely necessary” for the UK to extend its EU membership beyond 31 October.

Asked whether he would rule out voting in favour of a no-confidence motion against Johnson, Hammond told Le Monde and Süddeutsche Zeitung: “I will take steps to avoid an exit without agreement apart from an explicit parliamentary approval.

“There should be a new and sincere attempt to reach a consensus. If we do not find a solution with the members, we may have to ask the British to give their opinion again, in one form or another.”

Asked again to rule out supporting a motion of no confidence, Hammond responded: “I do not exclude anything for the moment.”

The chancellor was one of four cabinet ministers who broke ranks with the government to abstain on a vote on Thursday, the result of which prevents Johnson from proroguing, or suspending, parliament in order to push through an exit from the EU without a deal.

He also reportedly encouraged others to vote to ensure that parliament continues to sit through September and October.

In his interview with the two media outlets, Hammond said he could not see any prospect of a successful negotiation with the EU before 31 October, when Johnson says the UK will leave, “do or die”.

He added that he did not think it a good idea to continue endlessly extending the UK’s membership of the EU to avoid no deal, but could not accept the economic damage that would be inflicted on leaving this autumn. The Office of Budget Responsibility warned this week that a no-deal Brexit would require an additional £30bn in government borrowing.

Hammond said: “In practice, extending the deadline is absolutely necessary. Between the summer break, the arrival of the new commission and the change of the British government, it is simply impossible to negotiate anything before October 31.

“If the next government is sincere in its desire to reach an agreement with Europe, it must try to get more time. If it does not, the British parliament will insist on getting a new postponement.

“I will remain a member of the House of Commons. I will do everything in my power from my position to make sure that parliament blocks a Brexit without agreement.”

Also: Brussels to offer Boris Johnson extension on no-deal Brexit

The bookies also don't believe the UK leaves the EU this year.

It seems die, Mr. Kipper.

Image
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15019738
Beren wrote:Also: Brussels to offer Boris Johnson extension on no-deal Brexit

The bookies also don't believe the UK leaves the EU this year.

It seems die, Mr. Kipper.

Image


Well, considering Hammond position, he has been like this for the last 2+ years and its his job to work out the economic stuff out:

Image
By snapdragon
#15020219
JohnRawls wrote:People/leaders didn't want WW1, it still happened.
People/leaders didn't want WW2, it still happened.(Even Hitler)



Yeah they did want it.

Sometimes things happen irrelevant of any of us wanting/supporting something or not. WW1 didn't happen because everybody wanted a war, it happened due to the web of alliances and actions countries had to take. Same thing with Brexit. Tories and hardliners are backed in to a corner and they know it. So the only real choice for a hard brexit is prorogation of parliament.



Apples and oranges aren't even in that.

If they do not deliver a Brexit then the party will probably collapse along with labour. Lib Dems will come out on top along with some kind of "Ukip/Brexit" party coming in 2nd. This is a bad scenario for them because,not only will they loose their leading position but also Brexit will get cancelled then. Lib Dems are not tories nor labour. They will campaign hard in the 2nd referendum and perhaps even allow the EU to participate along with outside of UK voters to make it impossible for leave to stand a chance.



Nothing will cause the Tories to sink without trace more than proroguing Parliament.


Not gonna happen.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15020837
I have held the opinion for some time that there will be a 'nuclear option', stage one being that the Tories get us out of the E.U, second stage, the people get the Tories out of office.

Unfortunately for CORBYN, he has lost what 'leadership' nous that he posessed before, secondly, as a result, he has begun to lead from the rear, he has allowed the BLAIRITES to control-alter, the manifesto policies, thus challenging his position as leader.
His shadow cabinet is full of treacherous BLAIRITE opportunist waiting to trip him up & those factors will have the effect of denying Labour power at the next election if BoJo delivers leave.

Summarising what I have held to how it pans out, if BoJo delivers leave by 31 October, no matter what the post Brexit whinging brings, providing he sets the stage for the future economic path to enterprise - prosperity for all, he will be able to deliver a clear election win.

I say that conditionally, because, from what one can see of Labour opposition in parliament, they just bad-mouth Tory policies like austerity,or Brexit, without addressing solutions on redressing the effects of them for those affected & Labour will not win because of that vague ambiguity.

Labour policies are not directed at working class people or the retired, or disabled, they are aimed at ethnic, gender diversity & more state spending on big projects that ultimately will lead to them being sold cheaply back into the private sector, from where the taxpayers will be milked once again, by a Labour government creating markets for future Tory government's to exploit taxpayers with.


So many working class people have abandoned the Labour Party, because Labour under BLAIR-BROWN betrayed & abandoned them.

Those people will never again support Labour, as 'trust' betrayed, is trust lost.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15020848
JohnRawls wrote:The better question what are you all from UK going to do if Johnson prorogues the parliament? Are you ready to rise up with weapons? If not then shut up because there is no other way to stop it if he is determined.


Parliament has excluded itself from further action on leaving the E.U.

On multiple occasions, they rejected the 'bad' Theresa MAY 'deals', the W.A itself included, parliament has closed the book on a solution, because it has ruled out the available options.

Theresa MAY, although entitled to sign any piece of paper as P.M, did so without any pre-parliamentary authority, had she been in pocession of that parliamentary 'authority', she could not have failed to get it through parliament, had that actually been the case though, the 'deal' would still have been a conspiratorial deal by parliament against direct democracy..

That being the case, to then criticise BoJo for any attempt at proroguing parliament in the same vein is ridiculous.

The limit of parliamentary power, is within parliament itself, that is their court, they can make or break any law, what they cannot do(neither can to courts stop)is prevent the P.M from 'advising' the Queen to prorogue parliament, by pre-emption, because, in the U.K we have a 'dualist' system in our unwritten constitution, which separates the courts from the politicial process of parliament & the courts cannot pre-emptively prevent BoJo proroguing parliament.

Constitutionally, the courts are separate & are within the realm of the CROWN where the legal power resides as enacted by parliamentary legislation or Common law.

The Queen however, can(ill-advisedly) 'delay' that action against the P.M's wishes, because the government, through parliament can take severe actions to punish the monarch & prevent such actions in the future.
Last edited by Nonsense on 24 Jul 2019 22:52, edited 2 times in total.
By Hindsite
#15020894
Trump praises UK's Boris Johnson as the 'Britain Trump'


“We have a really good man who’s going to be the prime minister of the UK now,” the US president said. “He’s tough and he’s smart. They’re saying, ‘Britain Trump’. They call him ‘Britain Trump’ and people are saying that’s a good thing.”

Trump also praised Nigel Farage, the leader of the Brexit party. He said he is confident Johnson and Farage can work together well.
User avatar
By Beren
#15021536
The Guardian wrote:Boris Johnson’s government has played down the idea of fresh Brexit talks with the EU unless Brussels first agrees to reopen the entire withdrawal agreement and scrap the Irish backstop, both of which have been repeatedly ruled out.

In a stance that appears to place the UK more firmly on course for a no-deal departure on 31 October, Downing Street said there were no new Brexit talks scheduled, and that Johnson was “clear what the basis for those discussions needs to be”.

His spokesman said: “I don’t have a date to point you towards. The PM has been very clear that he is ready to begin having those discussions, but obviously the key point is the withdrawal agreement is not going to pass parliament, so that is going to mean reopening the withdrawal agreement.”

He added: “He will be energetic and front-footed in seeking a deal, but if a deal is not possible, we will be leaving.”

Asked if Johnson’s team had asked for any talks with Brussels, the spokesman said: “What we’ve done is set out our position and say that we are very ready and will be energetic in beginning talking, but we’re also clear-eyed about what needs to happen if we are going to be able to secure a deal which parliament can support.

“As I say, we are ready to begin talking, but we are clear what the basis for those discussions needs to be.”

Boris Johnson is so high energy that he should be connected to the grid as a power station perhaps.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15021540
Beren wrote:Boris Johnson is so high energy that he should be connected to the grid as a power station perhaps.

Boris Johnson's masterplan, it seems to me, is simply to crash out of the EU with a no-deal Brexit. He can and will then blame the EU for the catastrophic economic and political consequences of that event. And quite frankly, that's the only way that anyone is going to square the circle of the clusterfuck that is Brexit. May's mistake was to seek to be a responsible statesman (stateswoman...? statesperson...? :eh: ) and get the best result for Britain as a nation. Nope. What she should have been doing, if she had had any shred of political acumen, was to careen recklessly over the cliff-edge and then put the blame squarely on the Brussels Eurocrats, whom everyone in Britain knows are a bad bunch of johnny foreigners anyway and therefore must be to blame, somehow or other. Lol.
User avatar
By Beren
#15021545
Potemkin wrote:Boris Johnson's masterplan, it seems to me, is simply to crash out of the EU with a no-deal Brexit. He can and will then blame the EU for the catastrophic economic and political consequences of that event.

That seems rather obvious to me as well.

Potemkin wrote:And quite frankly, that's the only way that anyone is going to square the circle of the clusterfuck that is Brexit.

And he can please his American partners only that way too.
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