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Beren wrote:The EU vs member states thing is member states vs member states actually. Brexit is also an issue between 27 member states staying and 1 member state departing, however, those 27 are represented by the EU.
Let me ask you a question ZN, when politicians in Israel do something stupid that you disagree with, do you call for Israel to be destroyed? or with the politician that did the gaffe to be voted out?
You mentioned article 13 that is currently being discussed in the EU parliament and if it passes it will still have to be ratified by member states. Let me tell you something ZN which you are clearly unaware, for an article to reach parliament it means that it has already been rubber-stamped by the elected ministers of the member states in the council of Europe, it means that it has already been approved by Orban and by all the other nationalist governments that you worship and support. So tell me ZN, why are you blaming the EU and not Orban for rubber-stamping it? The EU has not imposed this on Orban, he has approved it on his own and the Hungarians have voted for him and you have cheer-leaded them.
Zionist Nationalist wrote:I did not called for the EU to be destroyed but rather reformed as currently its out of touch with its people
France is a good example of that
noemon wrote:I did not claim that it is not economically liberal
noemon wrote:Your sense of entitlement to shit on the EU with impunity is just mind-boggling.
noemon wrote:That is highly debatable especially in Switzerland(composed of Italians, French & Germans) and the UK(Scottish, Irish, Welsh and English) or even relevant.
noemon wrote:Why shouldn't the Italians be able to use subsidies in their own Swiss cantons to compete with the French cantons?
Beren wrote:Also, the EU isn't responsible to the people, it's responsible to member states governments that are responsible to the people, which should be appreciated by nationalists and nation state advocates. If you want the EU to be more responsible to the people, then EU officials should be elected by the people directly, which would result in more EU-powers rather than less. Is it what you mean by reforms?
Rugoz wrote:Eh...that's literally what you said.
I didn't know I need a "sense of entitlement" to shit on the EU with impunity. I mean wtf...
Besides, my personal position regarding economic liberalization is irrelevant here.
It is relevant.
European political institutions comparable in legitimacy or accountability, no European pension system, unemployment insurance, social security, healthcare, taxation, fiscal equalisation, military, etc.
Beren wrote:The Yellow Vests have the sympathy of the people, but do they actually join them? Do the demonstrations gain any traction among them? Do they mean to depose Macron? No. No. No.
noemon wrote:Quote me.
noemon wrote:The 4 freedoms(free movement of goods, services, capital and labour) are not neoliberal in any meaningful sense of the term
noemon wrote:Are you a bloody European Federalist trying to get us to hand over our national powers to the EU?
If you want the EU to be more responsible to the people, then EU officials should be elected by the people directly, which would result in more EU-powers rather than less. Is it what you mean by reforms?
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Yes sorta. The EU should give more autonomy to countries and to the people who elect their leaders that supposed to represent them
if Easter countries dont want to accept immigrants they have the right to refuse without being harassed and demonized by the globalist elite
JohnRawls wrote:But EU has nothing to do with accepting immigrants. Immigrants are coming because Merkel said that they are welcome and some other countries. People misinterpret this as EUs decision, it was not. This is exactly what you want but the other way around. Instead of not accepting them, Germany accepted them. This is exactly what happened.
This caused the first situation in the first place. Immigrants started coming in mass. If it was up the EU as a whole, i am pretty sure that those immigrants would not be accepted since eastern countries would veto such a decision.
So right now EU is in a pickle regarding this. They can't simple let them die on the sea. Although German said "You are welcome", they have to pass through other countries. Germany also panicked and said "Hey guys, we didn't expect this many, please accept some". But in reality what happened is even if other eastern countries/baltic/central european/southern accept them, they still go to Germany,France,Nordic,UK etc in mass.
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Well Im not that informed about whats going on within the EU I have to admit but I still dont like them they are shoving their nose in our business too much they think they know better than anyone else they have this disgusting elitist attitude especially countries like Sweden I just hate Sweden I wish them the worst
its sad that WW2 trauma have castrated the Germans once a nation of warriors now they are a nation of gay parades
they probably going to disappear in the next century
redcarpet wrote:I think ZN was making a point at EU citizens shouldn't have a 'right to work' and 'right of movement' to any other EU member-state. Not unilateral immigration policy towards non-EU states which can be changed at a whim. The first should be ended, the second lowered by each national government and start training up & employing their domestic populations.
John Rawls wrote:There was a small time gap where new members migration was barred for couple of years.
Rugoz wrote:No, I'm saying that liberalization shouldn't be pushed even further because that would necessitate federalism to make it work. The monetary union already doesn't work without it. Europeans are not ready for federalism, at least not yet. On a global level we have also have a tendency to go beyond tariff-free trade towards harmonization of regulation which necessitates a loss of national sovereignty and the establishment of supranational institutions lacking legitimacy.
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