The Tory Heritage - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

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By noemon
#14983858
Rich wrote:Gadaffi had lost control of large parts of the country before the West ever intervened. Gadaffi might have been able to cling on to power, but he was never going to stop a prolonged civil war.


That is false. And all the troubles Gaddafi was facing in the lead-up were all caused by western money, sanctions and weapons.

I've even heard retarded ignorant lefties, whinging that Gorge W Bush destroyed stability in Iraq, :roll: where as any one that has spent five minutes researching Iraq's history knows that one thing that Saddaam never brought was stability.


Iraq was far more stable under Saddam than after him.

and in months launched a war against Iran.


With western backing under western instructions.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983859
noemon wrote:Students should not pay for their education as that is a public good, not to mention already free for your competitors(Germany, France and others), nor should they pay for interest-rates on money that their parents have paid into the tax-pot. Furthermore, please tell me why should students pay interest-rates on government money more than the interest the government pays to pensioners? Lastly you should not confuse government loans with commercial loans. Government only loans you your own money, corporations loan you their money.


1. It is NOT a public good it is a student good (and an iffy one at that a lot of the time ie: genders studies lol).

2. Germany and France are doing it wrong.

3. They shouldn't be borrowing from gov and gov shouldn't be taxing to pay for education.

4. Government pensions are shit, if we weren't forced to buy them no one would want them.

5. It is extremely notional that it is "our" money after they have taken it from us but by that logic then it is also the corporation's money because they are also paying taxes.
User avatar
By Heisenberg
#14983860
noemon wrote:
That is false. And all the troubles Gaddafi was facing in the lead-up were all caused by western money, sanctions and weapons.

Iraq was far more stable under Saddam than after him.

With western backing under western instructions.

I'm genuinely amazed you even have the patience to bother responding to Rich's hot takes. :lol:
Last edited by Heisenberg on 28 Jan 2019 20:18, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983862
SolarCross wrote:Government pensions are shit, if we weren't forced to buy them no one would want them.


You are not answering my question. Can you not make sense of it? Why should students pay the government more interest than the government pays pensioners?

It is extremely notional that it is "our" money after they have taken it from us but by that logic then it is also the corporation's money because they are also paying taxes.


Corporations receive government grants all the time, free money with no interest whatsoever.

The Guardian wrote:The £93bn handshake: businesses pocket huge subsidies and tax breaks


Education is a public good and Germany and France having free education do it better than the UK.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983863
noemon wrote:You are not answering my question. Can you not make sense of it? Why should students pay the government more interest than the government pays pensioners?

My guess would be transactional friction. They have to pay an army of surly and indolent bureaucrats to administrate the pensions and the loans, the difference contributes to the pay of the bureaucrats.

noemon wrote:Corporations receive government grants all the time, free money with no interest whatsoever.

And they shouldn't.


noemon wrote:Education is a public good and Germany and France having free education do it better than the UK.

Then everything is a public good from food to electricity, so why not follow the glorious example of the DPRK where they have neither food nor electricity (lol)?
User avatar
By noemon
#14983867
SolarCross wrote:My guess would be transactional friction. They have to pay an army of surly and indolent bureaucrats to administrate the pensions and the loans, the difference contributes to the pay of the bureaucrats.


You are saying that student loans instead of taxes are supposed to pay national bureaucrats?



Then everything is a public good from food to electricity, so why not follow the glorious example of the DPRK where they have neither food nor electricity (lol)?


Are you equating France, Germany and Britain pre 1998 to the DPRK?
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983868
noemon wrote:You are saying that student loans instead of taxes are supposed to pay national bureaucrats?

The bureaucrats will take their cut either way. How would you administrate the loans without any staff?

Are you equating France, Germany and Britain pre 1998 to the DPRK?


My point is it is not a public good. I think you can argue that roads are a public good because just about everyone uses them, likewise also for the army since we all benefit from the security they provide. On the other hand everyone eats food and everyone uses electricity but those are not considered public goods. Most people neither want to, nor do, nor need to go to university. Tertiary education is definitely not a public good, it is a personal benefit and in many cases it is even just a personal luxury for the purpose of stoking the vanity of mediocre people.
Last edited by SolarCross on 28 Jan 2019 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
By Istanbuller
#14983870
I always find it very strange that how higher education is this much nationalized in a country that promote itself as a free market economy.

I don't know details. But i have some guessing. Those higher education institutions must be lobbying so much and pressures government. They don't want competition and don't like idea of being a part of economy.
#14983871
Istanbuller wrote:I always find it very strange that how higher education is this much nationalized in a country that promote itself as a free market economy.

I don't know details. But i have some guessing. Those higher education institutes must be lobbying so much and pressures government. They don't want competition and don't like idea of being a part of economy.


It's basically an insular private club. The education is actually not very good. They just go to universities and get their connections, networks, degrees. The process of university for these elites is more of a formality as part of their grooming into being the ruling class.

The right to rule in this instance is conferred by blood and breeding but it's not a case of any actual talent. You notice that a lot of the people in government often went to school or university together.

Anyone with any real talent is ostracised for their ideas and having the balls to challenge established thinking i.e. someone like Oswald Mosley.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983887
SolarCross wrote:How would you administrate the loans without any staff?


If you are saying you are willing to pay me money to administer this forum, then I can give you my bitcoin address to send me some, I hope that your contributions will be regular and sufficient to keep the administration up.

My point is it is not a public good.


Your point is false.

Public good:

1.a commodity or service that is provided without profit to all members of a society, either by the government or by a private individual or organization.
2. the benefit or well-being of the public.


Education is for the benefit and well-being of the public and it must be provided for free at all stages. Charging for it, turns the public good into a private good as it then excludes those that cannot afford it to the detriment of the public at large.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983896
noemon wrote:If you are saying you are willing to pay me money to administer this forum, then I can give you my bitcoin address to send me some, I hope that your contributions will be regular and sufficient to keep the administration up.

Are you kidding me? I am a content contributor and you are my employer! Where is my pay and benefits? My share of the ad money?! Cheeky bastard!

noemon wrote:Your point is false.

Public good:

Education is for the benefit and well-being of the public and it must be provided for free at all stages. Charging for it, turns the public good into a private good as it then excludes those that cannot afford it to the detriment of the public at large.


It is not in my benefit as a working class person to be forced to subsidise the drinking holidays of the dregs of the middle class so that they can then spend the rest of their lives poncing off on how "superiour" they now are because they licked marxist arse for three years.

If a uni education was actually worth anything then it wouldn't need a subsidy, if it is not worth anything then it shouldn't get a subsidy.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983901
SolarCross wrote:Are you kidding me? I am a content contributor and you are my employer! Where is my pay and benefits? My share of the ad money?! Cheeky bastard!


What ads? Hmm? I will be expecting my bitcoin wallet to increase soon with your regular contributions. :excited:

It is not in my benefit as a working class person to be forced to subsidise the drinking holidays of the dregs of the middle class so that they can then spend the rest of their lives poncing off on how "superiour" they now are because they licked marxist arse for three years.


University fees only cover educational costs, not housing or entertainment costs.

If a uni education was actually worth anything then it wouldn't need a subsidy, if it is not worth anything then it shouldn't get a subsidy.


Educational funding is not a subsidy, and education is not supposed to be for-profit.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983909
noemon wrote:What ads? Hmm? I will be expecting my bitcoin wallet to increase soon with your regular contributions. :excited:

You should get ads then. You can't expect contributors to work for free and cover your costs. Noemon Edit: Redacted

noemon wrote:University fees only cover educational costs, not housing or entertainment costs.

Regardless I shouldn't have to pay for a product I am not receiving while the person who is receiving the product does not. That is seriously unjust. Filthy parasitism.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983910
SolarCross wrote:You should get ads then. You can't expect contributors to work for free and cover your costs. Noemon Edit: Redacted


You should tell the same to your government about education. ;) Get ads instead of charging students.

Regardless I shouldn't have to pay for a product I am not receiving while the person who is receiving the product does not. That is seriously unjust. Filthy parasitism.


Noone is stopping you from having an education.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983914
noemon wrote:You should tell the same to your government about education. ;) Get ads instead of charging students.

The students will be minted when they get their fat salaries, they can pay, if not before then after through loan repayment. The only excuse I'll tolerate for freeloaders is serious illness which is not relevant to education. Character is more important even than smarts, if one wants to be a freeloader then you deserve the benefit of an education even less than the stupid people, on grounds of bad character.

noemon wrote:Noone is stopping you from having an education.

No one is stopping me from snorting coke every day either that doesn't mean I should be forced to pay for others to do so.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983918
I should make a correction in my OP, the Tories did not cut corporate taxes from 21% to 20% in 2010, they cut corporate taxes from 28% to 20%, then to 19% and now they want to cut them to 17%.

No one is stopping me from snorting coke every day either that doesn't mean I should be forced to pay for others to do so.


You 're hopeless mate, noone is forcing us to tolerate your existence but we still do both in PoFo as well as more broadly, and we still pay taxes for roads you may or may not use and for hospitals you will attend and for the education of doctors that will look after you.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14983932
noemon wrote:You 're hopeless mate, noone is forcing us to tolerate your existence but we still do both in PoFo as well as more broadly, and we still pay taxes for roads you may or may not use and for hospitals you will attend and for the education of doctors that will look after you.


You are forced to tolerate my existence actually, just as I am forced to tolerate yours, it is illegal to kill people. Come the revolution, that will all change of course...
User avatar
By noemon
#14983943
SolarCross wrote:You are forced to tolerate my existence actually, just as I am forced to tolerate yours, it is illegal to kill people. Come the revolution, that will all change of course...


I am actually not, especially not in here.
User avatar
By noemon
#14983974
SolarCross wrote:Only here.


Neither here nor in public. Contrary to your silly statement we do not need to kill people to ignore them.

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